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06-18-2009, 05:58 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by MikePerham Quote
It's still a camera for enthusiasts, who by definition are persons that know and understand cameras and photography, those that are simply buying a DSLR, regardless of the price range, will buy Canon and Nikon. So even though the K-7 is better specked,better built and better priced than the competition I suspect more Nikon's D300's and Canons 50D's will be sold than K-7's. But hopefully we will get some converts and Pentax will increase it's market share.
There was a person on the Amazon.com K-7 page that made a comment that the K-7 will not sell well because it has no lens.

06-18-2009, 06:44 AM   #32
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Exactly, His honesty is a prediction of the future

Canon official saying real enthusiasts should buy full frame is a clue to where Canon is headed:

They WILL Abandon their 1.6x aps-c format

APS-C was created to bring affordable dslrs to the marketplace. What happens when Sensors are crazy cheap? Theres no need for APS-C then. I can see in 5 years canon no longer making aps-c format cameras. As their aps-c lenses cannot be used on aps-h 1.3x or full frame I'd say aps-c is a dead end system for them.

But in the meantime it serves a low price point niche. Look how well spec'd the newest canon toy camera with HD is at $799:


Canon | EOS Rebel T1i Digital SLR Camera (Camera Body)


and for a $50 bill more you get an Image Stabilized kit lens with it:


Canon | EOS Rebel T1i Digital SLR Camera Kit w/EF-S | 3818B002


QuoteOriginally posted by yakiniku Quote
It is true, but it's also one thing that I don't like about canon somehow. They don't seem to put much effort on APS-C and the quality of their low end products just crap. I used to hear so many people using low end camera and trying to get a L lens because the quality differences between their low and high end lens. When they are actually using a L lens, other people will tell them to get a 5D to "release" the performance of their L lens. heck, the low quality of their low end products is actually helping them sell more of their higher end cameras. I remember one canon official claimed "the real enthusiasts should already be using full frame cameras" which cause some flame among some Japanese forums who is currently using canon's "APS-C" cameras...
06-18-2009, 08:55 AM   #33
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When the entry level price of FF DSLR bodies drops 50% to $1,300 I am sure Pentax will have a FF at that time but that is still a few years away.
06-18-2009, 09:45 AM   #34
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& I am equally certain pentax will never offer full frame

never never never, its just not going to happen...

Pentax will live with 1.5x crop. Continuing on to make weather resistant lenses which are required to make your weather resistant camera:


weather resistant.


Its their Niche: Rugged Outdoorsman System

Kinda like Olympus too has married into 2x for life. They will never make a bigger sensor camera. 2x is what they will continue to build a image stabilized camera body system around.

Better than 100% viewfinder, articulated screen, dual card slots, "WEATHERPROOF" not mearly weather resistant and all for $50 less than K-7 is starting at:

$1249.

Truely E3 is a Pro Spec camera. In a real way except for HD capture Oly E3 is clearly superior to K-7 and Oly has a weathersealed ultra wide angle rectilinear zoom: 7-14mm f4 , which Pentax does not have, nor have I seen roadmapped.


Olympus | E-3 SLR Digital Camera (Camera Body) | 262010 | B&H

Nikon will likely continue with 1.5x option since their better aps-c dslrs like D300 can use all the glass they've made since 1977:

Birth of Ai Mount


Their lesser nikon dslrs are lens restricted and usually this is realized after the newbie buys into the lure of nikon logo.

Even Canon's cheapest toy camera dslr made since day one can use every eos lens made since late 1986. SDM or Not, their USM works on all dslrs and film cameras too. Except for 1986-1988 era film bodies. 21 years of film camera USM lens motor compatibility. Zero pentax film bodies are SDM compatible. Maybe 1/2 of Pentax dslrs are SDM lens motor compatible. Some SDM have no screw drive. Good luck using autofocus on those film and dslrs that NEED screw drive for autofocus functions.

Each brand has its pluses and minuses.

I used to hold on to the belief pentax would go full frame, now I am 100% certain they will not. They'd rather compete with that segment with a 1 frame per second 645D. Again the longer Pentax waits the more current users get their needs met elsewhere.

One can shoot alot of pictures in a year, or two or 5. Wasn't it 5 years ago when 645D was first announced. People grow tired of waiting and as they say:

"Move On"

Once they've moved on, cash'd out then you are primarily only selling to new system users, who continue to have more choices and at ever lower price points.





QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
When the entry level price of FF DSLR bodies drops 50% to $1,300 I am sure Pentax will have a FF at that time but that is still a few years away.



Last edited by Samsungian; 06-18-2009 at 09:57 AM.
06-18-2009, 12:34 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
never never never, its just not going to happen...

Pentax will live with 1.5x crop. Continuing on to make weather resistant lenses which are required to make your weather resistant camera:


weather resistant.



"Move On"
sorry makes no sens...

and you can not compare it the m43 ... Olympus / Panasonic/ leica are a huge force in the photography world , producing really small ,mirror less cameras with some of the best optics in the world and best technology
THAT'S a REAL NICHE

NIKON / CANON controls the SLR world from entry level to pro THAT'S a NICHE

Pentax producing only mid level APS-C cameras that are less then the competition with no options for upgrade that is not a NITCH

they will have to change their logo to " be very very old and boring" and I doubt
that will sell to any one. not even to our old Pentax fans .
06-18-2009, 01:02 PM   #36
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There are Canon and Nikon DSLR system users that are switching to the K-7 so they could be " be very very old and boring" .
06-18-2009, 01:14 PM   #37
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So I guess you think we'll see full frame K Mount?

When will Pentax offer for sale full frame K Mount? I'm not talking on again off again on again roadmap 645D. But offering for sale a full frame K Mount and full frame lenses?

When?

I still guess:

Never

And I backed up my opinion and voted "Never" by adding 5D and D700 this past 12 months.

QuoteOriginally posted by redpigeons Quote
sorry makes no sens...

and you can not compare it the m43 ... Olympus / Panasonic/ leica are a huge force in the photography world , producing really small ,mirror less cameras with some of the best optics in the world and best technology
THAT'S a REAL NICHE

NIKON / CANON controls the SLR world from entry level to pro THAT'S a NICHE

Pentax producing only mid level APS-C cameras that are less then the competition with no options for upgrade that is not a NITCH

they will have to change their logo to " be very very old and boring" and I doubt
that will sell to any one. not even to our old Pentax fans .
06-18-2009, 01:21 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
There are Canon and Nikon DSLR system users that are switching to the K-7 so they could be " be very very old and boring" .
at the moment this was about if / when FF will be cheap (which is not many years from now)

and if Pentax will stick with APS-C then yes its just boring . unless its an evil camera then I see the point

06-18-2009, 04:32 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
Pentax is to camera's what Mac is to computers.
You mean Pentax is overpriced, sold based on hipster status and missing essential features?

Quite the opposite: Pentax is like Windows XP. Not the latest, not the flashiest, but does the job and is incredibly flexible if you are willing to learn a thing or two and not be spoon-fed.

06-18-2009, 05:45 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
You mean Pentax is overpriced, sold based on hipster status and missing essential features?

Quite the opposite: Pentax is like Windows XP. Not the latest, not the flashiest, but does the job and is incredibly flexible if you are willing to learn a thing or two and not be spoon-fed.

Please don't compare Pentax to a Microsoft product.

Microsoft in a nutshell:
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06-18-2009, 06:38 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
Canon official saying real enthusiasts should buy full frame is a clue to where Canon is headed:

They WILL Abandon their 1.6x aps-c format

APS-C was created to bring affordable dslrs to the marketplace. What happens when Sensors are crazy cheap? Theres no need for APS-C then. I can see in 5 years canon no longer making aps-c format cameras. As their aps-c lenses cannot be used on aps-h 1.3x or full frame I'd say aps-c is a dead end system for them.

But in the meantime it serves a low price point niche. Look how well spec'd the newest canon toy camera with HD is at $799:


Canon | EOS Rebel T1i Digital SLR Camera (Camera Body)


and for a $50 bill more you get an Image Stabilized kit lens with it:


Canon | EOS Rebel T1i Digital SLR Camera Kit w/EF-S | 3818B002
Sure, everyone knows they never put much effort on their APS-C. What people got pissed is he said "REAL" enthusiasts which implies people shooting with their own Canon's APS-C cameras are not enthusiasts? It's just like some people who classify the use of gears as determining the level of photography skills which pathetically undermines the actual purpose of buying a camera. And this kind of comment comes from a Canon official?!

And sure a "well spec toy camera". If spec is everything that matters, other camera makers who care a lot more about things other than spec are just plain stupid I guess. Canon surely knows how to sell camera in this world.

There is one possibility could change "the future" that you mentioned. It's new sensor technology like Fujifilm's EXR and Sigma's Foveon and also like one is currently co-developed by one of the university in Japan and NHK. If one of them becomes real, we might have to wait another cycle for it to reduce cost until it is cheap enough to put on a FF camera.
06-18-2009, 08:58 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by asdf Quote
Please don't compare Pentax to a Microsoft product.

Microsoft in a nutshell:
06-19-2009, 04:52 AM   #43
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Yet another thread derailed by Mac zealotry! Woot!

06-19-2009, 05:20 AM   #44
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I use Windows XP Pro SP3 and Windows 7 RC1 on my Mac using Vmware Fusion along with Microsoft Office 2008 Media Edition for Mac.
06-19-2009, 05:22 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
Yet another thread derailed by Mac zealotry! Woot!

Where did I mention Macs? You're quite confused.

BTW, Windows isn't so bad; after all, it comes with a free pie:
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