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05-02-2007, 09:05 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by arbutusq Quote
If Pentax gets sold off after the potential Hoya merger I'll just buy Samsung and some electrical tape.. I believe that in the long run all DSLR manufacturers are in trouble as digital video and HD become more prevalent anyway.
Really ? I dabble in both and IMHO they both have a bright future I can't see DSLR cameras going away. The current HD camcorders still offer meager stills but they are getting better - I could see PS having some serious competition with an equally fucntional camcorder - or the PS will compete the prosumer camcorder ...
but DSLR - will last my lifetime I think and that is all that really matters haha

As for Hoya / Pentax - these mergers while interresting do not affect my day to day life - and with my relatively new gear I am still planning on additional equipment. In the event Pentax goes out of buisness , at some point I will put my K100D adn gear on ebay along with my Betamax

05-02-2007, 09:14 AM   #32
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keep Pentax and buy Oly...
05-07-2007, 09:30 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by NaClH2O Quote
I have several close friends who are VERY knowedgeable about Japanese business and finances. (snip)
Several points:
1 Pentax does NOT have enough money to fund either more expansion or R&D.
Given that Pentax is indeed expanding at a rate of one to two new cameras a year, with all the R&D that requires, I'd say your "close friends" are either not as knowledgeable as you claim or simply full of it.

QuoteQuote:
2 Pentax's current leadership is seen as focused (pun intended) ONLY on their own personal fortunes, not the future of the company. They nixed the Hoya deal last month because they were afraid for their own jobs. Many, if not most business leaders in Japan and elsewhere are somewhat disgusted with their shortsightedness.
Did someone develop a means to read people's minds? If not, how does anyone know the reasons why Pentax board members voted down the Hoya deal? At that same time, why would "most business leaders in Japan" care one little bit about events at Pentax, much less be "disgusted" by the actions of the Pentax board members?

QuoteQuote:
3 Pentax NEEDS outside monies if it is to remain competitive in the DSLR marketplace.
Hey, I constantly need more money (photography is expensive), but I'm surviving and Pentax so far appears to be doing the same.

QuoteQuote:
So to answer your question RH, I'll be happier than I am now if Hoya buys Pentax. I think they have a brighter future with Hoya than without.
Beyond a limited and relatively short term influx of money, I don't see how Pentax, or Pentax brand products, will benefit in any significant way by a merger with Hoya. The company (Hoya) certainly seems to offer little to enhance the Pentax product line.

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05-08-2007, 03:28 PM   #34
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Doesn't Hoya own Tokina? So far we've seen many co-designed lenses.

DA 10-17/3.5-4.5
DA 12-24/4
DFA 50/2.8 Macro
DFA 100/2.8 Macro

DA*16-50/2.8
DA* 50-135/2.8

DA 35/2.8 Macro Limited

Personally I'm most concerned about the Limiteds who's quality is now 'up for grabs' as Tokina is marketing their own version of the 35 macro. I'm still opposed to a merger between Hoya but people have brought up some good points about the current cooperation with sister company Tokina. One being lens availiability. Pentax is releasing alot of lenses and perhaps it may not have been capable had it not been the help of Tokina. Secondly, Hoya supplies the lens blanks for like everyone so technically it should be cheaper.

Then again, Pentax would be under the mercy of Hoya management and who knows the direction it will take then...

05-09-2007, 07:34 AM   #35
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If Hoya buys Pentax...

Then I won't have to read any more idle speculation about what'll happen if Hoya buys Pentax.

Just my opinion...
05-09-2007, 10:26 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by FotoPete Quote
Doesn't Hoya own Tokina?
No, this is not true. People associated them together just because they share the same distributor in some regions. But there is not link between the two companies, other than Tokina probably is one of the clients for Hoya glass.
05-09-2007, 07:24 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by NaClH2O Quote
I have several close friends who are VERY knowedgeable about Japanese business and finances. It's their job to be knowledgeable and they ALL make lots of money because they are good at it.
Several points:
1 Pentax does NOT have enough money to fund either more expansion or R&D.
2 Pentax's current leadership is seen as focused (pun intended) ONLY on their own personal fortunes, not the future of the company. They nixed the Hoya deal last month because they were afraid for their own jobs. Many, if not most business leaders in Japan and elsewhere are somewhat disgusted with their shortsightedness.
3 Pentax NEEDS outside monies if it is to remain competitive in the DSLR marketplace.
4 Hoya is NOT planning on selling or letting the Photographic division die. It's one of Pentax's bright spots! Why would they want to sell it? There is no reason for them to. Hoya has never said they would sell it, only the usual noise to placate shareholders about "if it starts to lose money..."
5 (speculation on my part but based on real knowledge) Hoya needs to buy into Pentax or some other company to reduce it's excess cash, or they themselves will be seen as a company ripe for takeover.

So to answer your question RH, I'll be happier than I am now if Hoya buys Pentax. I think they have a brighter future with Hoya than without.

NaCl(quick! run! the sky is falling! the sky is falling!)H2O
I'd love to buy into this but there are some errr... holes (in no particular order)
5) The first deal was a stock swap. This would not decrease HOYA's fat war chest.
It was not HOYA who nixed this one. Also " Having performed so well the last few years, Hoya's shares aren't cheap, which is why I'm glad to see the company making the acquisition in stock instead of cash. Hoya and Pentax's reasoning for doing the deal entirely in stock may have been different, but on the surface, an all-stock deal looks wise on Hoya's part." (Hoya and Pentax See Clearly Now [Fool.com] December 22, 2006)
2) 6 out of eight are greedy and 2 are "thinking clearly"? Not to mention the rumor
that it was Urano who was "saving his arse" here.
4) from the combined release: Imaging systems area: (Major products include: digital cameras, binoculars, etc.) In order to
enhance business value, the new company will differentiate its offerings by specializing in
high-value added products with unique technology and will focus on areas where it has a
competitive edge. This area will be positioned as a foundation for development of new
optical-related equipment and is expected to diversify into the life care and security business
areas.
My crystal ball sees DSLR's probably going the way of the dodo bird after a year or two. At best it would prop up the division till more successful niches were built.
1) Maybe, maybe not. Samsung does though.
3) See 1. and apparently Samsung is still in the mix, and Pentax does want to talk to "other options" but can't till the end of May when their released from the HOYA binder......THE ASAHI SHIMBUN


Hoya Corp. has rejected a request by Pentax Corp. to review a basic merger agreement that prevents Pentax from discussing an alliance with another company until the end of May, sources said Friday.

In a letter, Hoya said it plans to continue talks on the public tender offer it proposed for the camera maker earlier this month, the sources said.

In a meeting between the Hoya and Pentax chiefs Wednesday, Pentax asked Hoya for at least 60 more days to decide whether it should accept the lens maker's proposal. Hoya rejected this request too, the sources said.

Hoya's management, meanwhile, plans to suspend voting at its board meeting on Monday on whether it should launch the public tender offer.

Instead, the company will decide at the meeting to continue holding discussions with Pentax until the end of May in the hope of reaching an agreement for a friendly takeover bid.

A clause in the basic contract says that neither company can go into alliance or merger talks with a third party until the end of May. A 3-billion-yen penalty must be paid if it is violated.

Pentax had asked Hoya to scrap the clause in the meeting held Wednesday.


Propoganda goes both ways:
Another opinion
Future vision
Pentax, once a Japanese titan of the camera industry, has fallen on tough times. In December, it agreed to a takeover by Hoya, the specialist lens maker, after failing to successfully tap into the digital camera market. Now its president is stepping down due to feisty shareholders who were miffed over the terms of Hoya’s original takeover offer.

Pentax’s woes have been echoed throughout the industry. Like its peers, it was slow to make the leap to digitisation. Last year, Konica Minolta, the world’s third-largest maker of photographic film, said that it was pulling out of the camera and photo businesses to stem losses. Fuji Photo Film has said that it is responding to shrinking demand for photographic film and slower growth in the digital camera market by cutting 5,000 jobs.

These problems are not limited to Japan. Eastman Kodak, the world’s market leader, has dramatically cut film manufacturing over the past two years as it moves to digital. It has called for 26,000 job cuts and the closure of most of its film factories.

Pentax’s future is in optical healthcare equipment, which it will achieve by merging with Hoya. But first, they must agree to re-agree on the terms of Hoya’s takeover.
Nout Wellink’s lesson in pragmatism - Financial Times - Onet.pl Biznes - 10.04.2007
just for fun.
Actually if Pentax sold re-branded Samsungs (if they are not already but vice versa) they may be able to even stay in the non-dslr market. samsung bypassed Nikon
Global Digital Still Camera Shipments by Vendor 2006 and 2005

Shipments Share(%) Shipments Share(%)

1. Canon 19,747,351 (18.7) 16,030,746 (17.4)

2. Sony 16,718,209 (15.8) 14,024,195 (15.2)

3. Kodak 10,567,943 (10.0) 13,144,883 (14.2)

4. Olympus 9,117,141 (8.6) 9,089,576 (9.8)

5. Samsung 8,281,648 (7.8) 3,546,367 (3.8)

6. Nikon 8,060,250 (7.6) 7,251,566 (7.9)

Global Digital SLR Camera Shipments by Vendor 2006 and 2005

Shipments Share(%) Shipments Share(%)

1. Canon 2,460,339 (46.7) 1,882,162 (49.5)

2. Nikon 1,740,169 (33.0) 1,280,172 (33.7)

3. Sony 326,240 (6.2) 0 0.0

4. Olympus 311,116 (5.9) 217,135 (5.7)

5. Pentax 285,932 (5.4) 175,112 (4.6)

(Source: IDC)
05-10-2007, 08:11 AM   #38
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RiceHigh lives

QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
The possible things people will react are:

1. Sell out all their Pentax gear;

2. Buy more gear when they are last in stock;

3. Keep existing gear and buy into a new system;

4. Don't do anything and wait if someone takes over.

I myself will do the number 3, I guess.
The voice of doom is still to be heard - but it's moved to this forum. I hadn't realised. Hello RiceHigh.

Tim

05-10-2007, 02:36 PM   #39
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I think it is more likely that hoya buys pentax, strips out less profitable product lines (although pentax seem to be doing it anyway) and use pentax's new factory, existing r&d, name etc etc with their lots of glass and deep pockets to become a seriously major player.

Phil
05-10-2007, 03:05 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
The possible things people will react are:

1. Sell out all their Pentax gear;

2. Buy more gear when they are last in stock;

3. Keep existing gear and buy into a new system;

4. Don't do anything and wait if someone takes over.

I myself will do the number 3, I guess.
5. Ignore the doom and gloom and buy new models that are coming out and continue with Pentax who are still in buiness and still releasing qualilty lenses and cameras..
05-11-2007, 04:21 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote

*snip*

Propoganda goes both ways:
Another opinion
Future vision
Pentax, once a Japanese titan of the camera industry, has fallen on tough times. In December, it agreed to a takeover by Hoya, the specialist lens maker, after failing to successfully tap into the digital camera market. Now its president is stepping down due to feisty shareholders who were miffed over the terms of Hoya’s original takeover offer.
Ah, but it wasn't feitsy shareholders, it was other board members who staged the coup. From what I understand, many of the major share holders are in favor of the buyout. I agree with you that Pentax isn't doing well, some divisions are ok, but not great (medical imaging) some are showing good improvement (consumer imaging) tho, to be frank, w/o the K100D and the K10D that division of Pentax would be in dire straits.
Urano, who was the architect of that turnaround is now out. Watanuki(sp?) one of the old school managers is now in. I simply can't see that as good for Pentax.

QuoteQuote:
Pentax’s woes have been echoed throughout the industry. Like its peers, it was slow to make the leap to digitisation. Last year, Konica Minolta, the world’s third-largest maker of photographic film, said that it was pulling out of the camera and photo businesses to stem losses. Fuji Photo Film has said that it is responding to shrinking demand for photographic film and slower growth in the digital camera market by cutting 5,000 jobs.

These problems are not limited to Japan. Eastman Kodak, the world’s market leader, has dramatically cut film manufacturing over the past two years as it moves to digital. It has called for 26,000 job cuts and the closure of most of its film factories.

Pentax’s future is in optical healthcare equipment, which it will achieve by merging with Hoya. But first, they must agree to re-agree on the terms of Hoya’s takeover.
Nout Wellink’s lesson in pragmatism - Financial Times - Onet.pl Biznes - 10.04.2007
just for fun.
Actually if Pentax sold re-branded Samsungs (if they are not already but vice versa) they may be able to even stay in the non-dslr market. samsung bypassed Nikon
Global Digital Still Camera Shipments by Vendor 2006 and 2005

Shipments Share(%) Shipments Share(%)

1. Canon 19,747,351 (18.7) 16,030,746 (17.4)

2. Sony 16,718,209 (15.8) 14,024,195 (15.2)

3. Kodak 10,567,943 (10.0) 13,144,883 (14.2)

4. Olympus 9,117,141 (8.6) 9,089,576 (9.8)

5. Samsung 8,281,648 (7.8) 3,546,367 (3.8)

6. Nikon 8,060,250 (7.6) 7,251,566 (7.9)

Global Digital SLR Camera Shipments by Vendor 2006 and 2005

Shipments Share(%) Shipments Share(%)

1. Canon 2,460,339 (46.7) 1,882,162 (49.5)

2. Nikon 1,740,169 (33.0) 1,280,172 (33.7)

3. Sony 326,240 (6.2) 0 0.0

4. Olympus 311,116 (5.9) 217,135 (5.7)

5. Pentax 285,932 (5.4) 175,112 (4.6)

(Source: IDC)
Not sure I agree with you I'd say that Pentax still has some life in it's DSLR division. It is finally making money, and, due to the carnage you mentioned above is well situated to develop a secure niche for itself as a second tier manufacturer under Canon and Nikon. However, to do this they will need deep pockets, hence my view that Hoya would have been a good partner. However now things have changed, Pentax's board coup irked Hoya mightily, the future seems a lot cloudier now. I don't have a good crystal ball. But I do have contacts who know Japanese business practices extremely well. Even they don't know what is going to happen now. As I write this, Pentax has probably finished it's meeting and is putting together it's announced plan for turning the company around.

NaCl(in the camp of "wait and see")H2O
05-11-2007, 06:01 AM   #42
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Board members are shareholders Anyways it was possibly JUST SPARX and Fidelity (though they have been silent on this point) who wanted the merger (and Urano and #2 (forgot his name). Urano was guaranteed a seat on the board of HOYA as well. That looks like job protection to me. Since SPARX bought in they have been URGING Pentax to get out of the camera business (see their statements) Exactly WHICH cameras was always an open question. By assumption 1)SPARX wants Pentax out of camera business 2) THey back HOYA takeover 3) They may assume HOYA will jettison the camera business and vindicate their stance .
PENTAX is a very "old school" company. No wonder we Westerners get confused.....
Not to mention endoscopes down.. cameras up... SPARX is looking a bit short sighted here
05-11-2007, 10:22 AM   #43
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I can only say: Thank you Pentax management for not giving up without a fight!
05-11-2007, 05:00 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by NaClH2O Quote
So to answer your question RH, I'll be happier than I am now if Hoya buys Pentax. I think they have a brighter future with Hoya than without.
Fully agree. Our chances to continue enjoy Pentax cameras are much higher with Pentax as Hoya then Pentax being on their own.
05-11-2007, 06:03 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by klopus Quote
Fully agree. Our chances to continue enjoy Pentax cameras are much higher with Pentax as Hoya then Pentax being on their own.
How the heck can you say that? Pentax has been making "toys" for a long, long time and has not ever given up, even through "hard times". How many "american or westernized" businesses can say that? Probably not many. MAYBE Hoya would stick w/ cameras for a bit, but a slight downturn and "firesale"..... Sorry, just how I feel.
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