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06-20-2009, 01:05 AM   #46
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I always wondered

QuoteOriginally posted by Alfisti Quote
There are three places that review cameras, DPR, Imaging Resource and DCR ... the rest are utter and total hacks.
what constituted a "hack".

06-20-2009, 01:34 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by NothingInCommon Quote
Not everyone is a great photographer, so if he has issues with underexposers then maybe i will too
will this be your first time to use a dSLR? had you tried any prosumer cameras or did you jump immediately from a PS camera?

I don't want to discourage you, but if you came from a PS camera, atleast you should've known how to use some of the basic functions on how to deal with underexposures. problem is, most PS users are set on automatic setup rather than study the other existing capabilities of their cameras.

well, upgrading from a PS cam to a mid/semi-pro dSLR without any basic knowledge of other functions can be quite a long and painful process.

but in anycase, you don't have to be a great photographer inorder to solve underexposures. what you need is familiarity of the functions of the camera, nothing special.
06-20-2009, 01:40 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fl_Gulfer Quote
I'm surprised Pentax hasn't asked them to remove the review since they have no clue how the camera will perform with it's final software.
Sounds like Nikon mailed in the review.

LOL, LOL, LOL, LOL


wll
06-20-2009, 04:47 AM   #49
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not bad review though i am waiting for dpreview or dcresource. I highly like K-7 and I suppose that underexposing is better than nikon's overexposing.

06-20-2009, 06:58 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by NothingInCommon Quote
Not everyone is a great photographer, so if he has issues with underexposers then maybe i will too
and if he has issues with verbal diarhea, you might have, too? no. ignore it, it's bullshit. every camera makes "choices" when measuring exposure, the pentax choices are slightly different, not worse not better, what really matters is that they are consistent, so you can get used to it and know what the camera will do msot of the time. that is very much the case with the k20d, k10d, and i am sure the k-7 too, so just don't give it a second thought. read photographers reviews, if you want meaningful opinions on camera gear, as i said before.
06-20-2009, 07:28 AM   #51
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The review is completely useless. No credibility whatsoever.
06-20-2009, 09:30 AM   #52
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it doesn't take a great photographer to take a well exposed picture, look at the screen and push the EV compensation button if its not right.

Seriously...cameras make metering decisions. I think of it like this, imagine a line called "perfect exposure" pentax approaches it from the left (underexposing if exposing improperly) and nikon approaches from the right (over exposing if exposing improperly)


Also if you have trouble, I recommend the book "understanding exposure", it helped me out a ton!

If I have to leave +.3 ev dialed in as default in exchange for a waterproof 5fps camera thats a trade i'd make any day of the week.

Last edited by jmbradd; 06-20-2009 at 09:31 AM. Reason: completing sentences
06-20-2009, 11:53 AM   #53
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The review is pretty poor, but it's worth noting that Nikon and Canon have also taking a beating in the magazines in their new 500D and D5000 entry level cameras.

Whilst great cameras, there is a big question mark over value for money - both new cameras weigh in at ~850 which could get you a 50D or a D300 for not much more than that. Entry level cameras RRP'ing than higher spec cameras? Silly talk! So whilst the K-7 got a bit of a bad word said, C & N are getting a hard time too - it's got nothing to do with anti-Pentax attitudes in the mags.

What bites me on the K-7 is that from what i've seen so far, it's clear ISO noise and IQ have nothing more to offer over my own K20D. Granted, the autofocus seems much improved coupled with 5.2 fps, but I don't do sports or fast moving action, and I also have manual focus lenses so the AF is a moot point. I have no need for live view or a movie mode. So if I sold my K20D for a K7, I'd have gone from 14.6 MP APS-C to the same 14.6 MP APS-C with the same ISO performance. I've already got in-body image stabilisation and weather sealing.

Worth shelling 600 over a K20D? Not for me, and here's my point: the review is correct by what it said "if it was 949.99" - it needs to have something more than "just keeping up with C & N" for the general public and some of the Pentaxians (me included). I don't think the journalism conveyed that very well though. Personally, a worthwhile upgrade for me would be full-frame and ~20 megapixels, although we all know that's not on the cards for Pentax.

The K-7 is awesome, it really is, but if I was new to the DSLR market without a back catalogue of Pentax lenses, I'd be buying Nikon at that sort of price.


Last edited by Big G; 06-20-2009 at 12:01 PM.
06-20-2009, 12:59 PM   #54
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Quote from the review;
The point is that, when looking to buy a camera, the figures so often stand out on paper that they can be a make or break for customers in the shop.

The impressions that I got from the review;
1) I don't think english is this person's first language.
2) I agree with other people's view that this person is a tech head and not a photog. Referring to how things sound on paper vs how they match up in real performance. This would support the comments of this person not knowing which button or dial does what.
3) The person sounds like they were trying to make a deadline. "Get it out fast, we can always re-do it later if need be".
4) I love the user review numbers. 60 percent. Who has one to review?

Hack review, total waste of 20 minutes that I will never get back.
06-20-2009, 01:37 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by jmbradd Quote
it doesn't take a great photographer to take a well exposed picture, look at the screen and push the EV compensation button if its not right.

Seriously...cameras make metering decisions. I think of it like this, imagine a line called "perfect exposure" pentax approaches it from the left (underexposing if exposing improperly) and nikon approaches from the right (over exposing if exposing improperly)

(...)
exactly. and now imagine the line is gone, and you will have a very clear view of how things _really_ are. there is no perfect exposure, it's mostly about (often personal) choices. when talking about a camera "underexposing by 1/3 stop", we are, to put it briefly, talking bullshit anyway.
06-20-2009, 02:48 PM   #56
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Cant be a full production model

QuoteOriginally posted by RBellavance Quote
It does mention "Full production model" on the sample photos page...
If the camera dont produce EXIF-data, its not a full production model.
You cant upgrade a pre-prodution model to firmware 1.0 and call it a "first review".
You may call it bullshit, and thats what this is.
06-20-2009, 06:54 PM   #57
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I agree with Nanok. The reality is that if you take a picture of family in front of a sunset, you might decide that you want the sunset exposed correctly and the family a silhouette, or you can choose to expose the family correctly and the sunset will be washed out. That is up to the photographer, not the camera. If my camera somehow made all the decisions for me (even if they were perfect), it would take the joy out of photography.
06-20-2009, 07:41 PM   #58
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...but with HDR

...with the HDR feature (which the reviewer didn't like but which many others have so far found to be very effective and useful) both can be properly exposed.

Yes, I agree. The reviewer left out so many features, and gave short shrift to many others, he is very obviously a negatively biased or incompetent reviewer.

Last edited by gfmucci; 06-20-2009 at 07:43 PM. Reason: complete my thoughts
06-21-2009, 09:36 AM   #59
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Even Ned Doesn't have a Prod. K-7

The head of Pentax Imaging in the USA does not yet have a production body K-7.

"...I still do not have a final production sample of the K-7 to shoot with." Ned Bunnell posting June 20th 2009 on his blog.

I'd hate to see that someone lied in order to get "first review on the K-7" placed in print".

And where and from whom did whoosit get his "production body K-7" for the "review"?

Last edited by solar1; 06-21-2009 at 01:48 PM.
06-21-2009, 09:55 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by Big G Quote
The review is pretty poor, but it's worth noting that Nikon and Canon have also taking a beating in the magazines in their new 500D and D5000 entry level cameras.

Whilst great cameras, there is a big question mark over value for money - both new cameras weigh in at ~850 which could get you a 50D or a D300 for not much more than that. Entry level cameras RRP'ing than higher spec cameras? Silly talk! So whilst the K-7 got a bit of a bad word said, C & N are getting a hard time too - it's got nothing to do with anti-Pentax attitudes in the mags.

What bites me on the K-7 is that from what i've seen so far, it's clear ISO noise and IQ have nothing more to offer over my own K20D. Granted, the autofocus seems much improved coupled with 5.2 fps, but I don't do sports or fast moving action, and I also have manual focus lenses so the AF is a moot point. I have no need for live view or a movie mode. So if I sold my K20D for a K7, I'd have gone from 14.6 MP APS-C to the same 14.6 MP APS-C with the same ISO performance. I've already got in-body image stabilisation and weather sealing.

Worth shelling 600 over a K20D? Not for me, and here's my point: the review is correct by what it said "if it was 949.99" - it needs to have something more than "just keeping up with C & N" for the general public and some of the Pentaxians (me included). I don't think the journalism conveyed that very well though. Personally, a worthwhile upgrade for me would be full-frame and ~20 megapixels, although we all know that's not on the cards for Pentax.

The K-7 is awesome, it really is, but if I was new to the DSLR market without a back catalogue of Pentax lenses, I'd be buying Nikon at that sort of price.
I agree with everything you said up until the last line - that one doesn't follow imho.

You can't equate buying decisions and prices from a year ago with now. Exchange rates have changed dramatically, so it isn't reasonable to talk about value compared with a 2007 or 2008 price.

I agree about the quandry for a K20d owner (like myself). Based on what I've seen, there is ZERO reason to upgrade based on IQ. Thankfully the K20d has great IQ so I'm not unhappy in that area. So then it becomes a question of do you want/need the other features. For some, improved AF (with assist), video, smaller size, 900K dot display, etc tip the scales towards upgrade.

The other thing I think you're seeing is that APS-C has settled in on an "optimal" resolution (12-15mp), so upgrades within that sensor size are going to be for other features. This isn't like going from Nikon D70-D80-D90 where you get significant changes in sensor and display. For the form factor, you can't go much above a 3" display (though you could go larger 16x9 if you use the whole rear ala p&s designs), and with current tech you *could* cram more mp but you won't see the resulting iq increase.

I think we're in a bit of a plateau wrt tech specs, and what you'll see is featuritis for awhile. Then there will be some interface breakthroughs and we'll start again. And upper level tech will cheapen and trickle down.

The bottom line is that it is just like it always has been - buy what you need now, not what you want tomorrow. Because it'll always change. With dSLRs though, you do get "value" from good glass. An entry level buyer doesn't realize that (and likely doesn't really need an interchangeable lens camera, but the K-7 isn't targeted at entry level buyers. I think Pentax is smart though by playing the rugged/weatherized angle - that is a niche that Canikon doesn't really touch at a reasonable price point.
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