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06-21-2009, 08:08 PM   #76
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I forgot to add the mirror lock-up, 100% frame coverage and a pentaprism viewfinder as opposed to the lower twos pentamirror. I dunno if those features matter to some of you that much.

06-21-2009, 09:00 PM   #77
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Well, I have always noticed that no matter how well the images are, many people do not want to give Pentax the praise it deserves. In addition, to remain competitive, Pentax has to come up w/ products that are on the cutting edge of technology. For some reason, they keep lagging behind...and even if they do it "first," the competition will come behind and do that same tech their way and receive the higher praise for their version.

That review was all, "it's a great camera, but..." Hey, I just say, keep churning out great images which no one can argue against. That's what keeps them quiet.
06-21-2009, 11:12 PM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by PentaxK10 Quote
Well, I have always noticed that no matter how well the images are, many people do not want to give Pentax the praise it deserves. In addition, to remain competitive, Pentax has to come up w/ products that are on the cutting edge of technology. For some reason, they keep lagging behind...and even if they do it "first," the competition will come behind and do that same tech their way and receive the higher praise for their version.

That review was all, "it's a great camera, but..." Hey, I just say, keep churning out great images which no one can argue against. That's what keeps them quiet.
Yep, indeed. Very common behaviour.
06-21-2009, 11:57 PM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by PentaxK10 Quote
Well, I have always noticed that no matter how well the images are, many people do not want to give Pentax the praise it deserves. In addition, to remain competitive, Pentax has to come up w/ products that are on the cutting edge of technology. For some reason, they keep lagging behind...and even if they do it "first," the competition will come behind and do that same tech their way and receive the higher praise for their version.

That review was all, "it's a great camera, but..." Hey, I just say, keep churning out great images which no one can argue against. That's what keeps them quiet.
maybe Pentax should start asking for technology rights or royalties ! atleast, eventhough the competition do the same thing and get praises for it, Pentax gets paid, praises and promotions as well.


btw, AMATEUR PHOTOGRAPHER announced that they will have to delay their review of the K-7 due to the fact that the K-7 production model with firmware v.1 contains altered sensor. so this could mean that the pre-production K-7s with updated v.1 firmwares are different than we expect. I guess it's time to give Mike Lowe a ring to inform him to remove his article and do another test.


Last edited by Pentaxor; 06-22-2009 at 12:09 AM.
06-22-2009, 05:07 AM   #80
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I thought it was quite poorly written.
Not very informative in any great detail.
Almost like he was rewriting the guide book.

I can't really make out this part of a paragraph:

there's stiff competition already out there from competitors. The long-standing Nikon D300, for example, has a 51-point AF system that sounds frightfully better - at least on paper. In actuality, having so many AF points can leave you spoilt for choice, or even getting caught out tracking the wrong subject, so Pentax truly isn't a million miles behind in reality.
06-22-2009, 06:51 AM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by mickey Quote
I thought it was quite poorly written.
Not very informative in any great detail.
Almost like he was rewriting the guide book.

I can't really make out this part of a paragraph:

there's stiff competition already out there from competitors. The long-standing Nikon D300, for example, has a 51-point AF system that sounds frightfully better - at least on paper. In actuality, having so many AF points can leave you spoilt for choice, or even getting caught out tracking the wrong subject, so Pentax truly isn't a million miles behind in reality.
LOL this guy really has no clue.
06-22-2009, 08:34 AM   #82
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I think the idea of what's 'competition' is quite skewed, by a certain amount of brand snobbery and feature-itis, really, a different thing.
Brand snobbery, cause the Big Two market their brands as 'the pro brands,' 'the best' ..regardless of what's actually obtainable for any given budget, and there seems to be resistance to even taking Pentax seriously. (By extension, there's a certain amount of not-taking *Pentaxians* seriously, which'd start to cheese just about anyone off, eventually, at least if you're in less of a mood to laugh it off. ) Darn that stupid word, 'pro,' anyway. 'Pro' is what makes you money.

When I consider what a camera is suitable for, it really starts with the basics, ...Can it get there, can it hold up, does it have controls and the level of performance I might need.... I'm kind of from a time when the 'pro' camera was the one with the best precision and durability, the best finder, and nothing unnecessary in your way or to go wrong.


The K-7's an affordable camera for serious photography that hits a different feature set and form factor than those things defined as 'pro' in terms of Canon and Nikon, with video in it, not an entry level camera built up with 'features,' ...different thing, when what really counts is the basics, ....it's got the controls, it's got the weather seal, it's got the ruggedness and operating range.

You don't put ...I dunno, a Land Rover in the same 'class' as a minivan cause they both have TV screens in the back. I think what makes my K20d 'serious' for me is that the weathersealing means I can treat this sophisticated computer in there like a *camera,* and not a very expensive electronic toy the moment it drizzles.

I think it's a good thing that Pentax has been kind of straddling, if not rearranging the classes: the archetypal 'pro' cameras have kind of become non-modular behemoths made for folks who want to lean on the shutter at (for me) silly FPS rates and all, and there's no really smaller option in the system for when you don't need that to carry, or don't want to carry *twice* that to have a backup or second body in play. (Now, I don't mind a good-sized camera body, but past a point, why lug around more than you need. Especially, why spend a few extra *grand* on what you don't need, when it's the glass that most counts. )

It 'confuses' the reviewers and Net-commentary, though: when bashing the K20d was sport, they'd say, 'It's huge, compared to a Rebel, ' and the next minute be comparing the IQ to D700s and speed to D300s...

Now they'll compare 'features' of the K-7 to 'features vs price ' of bodies that can't do the same jobs, and don't even have pentaprisms.

I think these things really just are what they are, and the reviewers have really gotten way too used to the idea of head-to-head competition in certain arbitrarily (and inconsistently)-assigned 'market segments;' ...and I don't think it proves very informative, especially when there's a certain amount of brand-bias out there.

I'd kind of like to see any ratings and comparisons between 'competition' broken down based on, say, price, size, speed, IQ, 'shootability,' (sort of a term I've coined for some combination of handling, viewfinder, control layout and operation,) beginner-friendliness, and durability. As it is, it's treated too much like a race, which isn't always helpful. People have different priorities, what a reviewer thinks isn't important might be *key* to someone else.

Or they could rate them by how suited they are for any given purpose or type of shooter, say, action, low-light, papparrazoid, studio, macro, outdoors, street, flash, student, family, 'havin' fun with interesting features,' (Fun's a valid concern for many) ...whatnot.

I've always felt that selling cameras shouldn't be a competition, but rather, playing 'matchmaker.' Some variation is good.

That's just me being chattery about what we see here. ...A lot of it seems to descend to bragging-and-slagging rights on the Net, which isn't helping much.
06-22-2009, 10:05 AM   #83
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When you click the link "compare with other products", it will show you that the user rating of K-7 is 60% !!! WTF, what users out there before the production!!

I guess that all ratings of this review itself go into the user rating of k-7

06-22-2009, 01:26 PM   #84
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Even in the Hi Fi world - "What Hi Fi" has very little credibility with the serious users of Hi Fidelity equipment

They are literally paid and kept by the advertisers

Want a good review - "Hows about a holiday"

Dyl
06-22-2009, 04:05 PM   #85
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Those shots are piss poor.. geez.
06-22-2009, 04:52 PM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by pighead Quote
When you click the link "compare with other products", it will show you that the user rating of K-7 is 60% !!! WTF, what users out there before the production!!

I guess that all ratings of this review itself go into the user rating of k-7
I hope not, but it does show the tendencies of fanboys from Pentax and other systems to vote up/down cameras in general. I think it's an internet thing.

What's important is one's own experiences with the camera. Reviews can only do so much, and inevitably, biases will show, though it's perfectly understandable since we're all humans.
06-22-2009, 05:07 PM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
I think the idea of what's 'competition' is quite skewed, by a certain amount of brand snobbery and feature-itis, really, a different thing.
Brand snobbery, cause the Big Two market their brands as 'the pro brands,' 'the best' ..regardless of what's actually obtainable for any given budget, and there seems to be resistance to even taking Pentax seriously. (By extension, there's a certain amount of not-taking *Pentaxians* seriously, which'd start to cheese just about anyone off, eventually, at least if you're in less of a mood to laugh it off. ) Darn that stupid word, 'pro,' anyway. 'Pro' is what makes you money.

When I consider what a camera is suitable for, it really starts with the basics, ...Can it get there, can it hold up, does it have controls and the level of performance I might need.... I'm kind of from a time when the 'pro' camera was the one with the best precision and durability, the best finder, and nothing unnecessary in your way or to go wrong.


The K-7's an affordable camera for serious photography that hits a different feature set and form factor than those things defined as 'pro' in terms of Canon and Nikon, with video in it, not an entry level camera built up with 'features,' ...different thing, when what really counts is the basics, ....it's got the controls, it's got the weather seal, it's got the ruggedness and operating range.

You don't put ...I dunno, a Land Rover in the same 'class' as a minivan cause they both have TV screens in the back. I think what makes my K20d 'serious' for me is that the weathersealing means I can treat this sophisticated computer in there like a *camera,* and not a very expensive electronic toy the moment it drizzles.

I think it's a good thing that Pentax has been kind of straddling, if not rearranging the classes: the archetypal 'pro' cameras have kind of become non-modular behemoths made for folks who want to lean on the shutter at (for me) silly FPS rates and all, and there's no really smaller option in the system for when you don't need that to carry, or don't want to carry *twice* that to have a backup or second body in play. (Now, I don't mind a good-sized camera body, but past a point, why lug around more than you need. Especially, why spend a few extra *grand* on what you don't need, when it's the glass that most counts. )

It 'confuses' the reviewers and Net-commentary, though: when bashing the K20d was sport, they'd say, 'It's huge, compared to a Rebel, ' and the next minute be comparing the IQ to D700s and speed to D300s...

Now they'll compare 'features' of the K-7 to 'features vs price ' of bodies that can't do the same jobs, and don't even have pentaprisms.

I think these things really just are what they are, and the reviewers have really gotten way too used to the idea of head-to-head competition in certain arbitrarily (and inconsistently)-assigned 'market segments;' ...and I don't think it proves very informative, especially when there's a certain amount of brand-bias out there.

I'd kind of like to see any ratings and comparisons between 'competition' broken down based on, say, price, size, speed, IQ, 'shootability,' (sort of a term I've coined for some combination of handling, viewfinder, control layout and operation,) beginner-friendliness, and durability. As it is, it's treated too much like a race, which isn't always helpful. People have different priorities, what a reviewer thinks isn't important might be *key* to someone else.

Or they could rate them by how suited they are for any given purpose or type of shooter, say, action, low-light, papparrazoid, studio, macro, outdoors, street, flash, student, family, 'havin' fun with interesting features,' (Fun's a valid concern for many) ...whatnot.

I've always felt that selling cameras shouldn't be a competition, but rather, playing 'matchmaker.' Some variation is good.

That's just me being chattery about what we see here. ...A lot of it seems to descend to bragging-and-slagging rights on the Net, which isn't helping much.
Steve's website is atleast able to do that sort of review and never tend to compare the camera to another brand but rather compare it to it's predecessor, which is more logical.

some reviewers tend to make a comparison to other brands due to biased preference. this doesn't help the reader at all on what he can get from the camera but rather a subjective understanding that one particular of camera is better than the other.
06-22-2009, 07:55 PM   #88
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The wanna-be reviewers at "What Digital Camera" are hopeless.
Have a look at their you-tube videos, if you want to get sick that is.

They write:
QuoteQuote:
...there's nothing singularly immensely stand-out about the K-7 that really places it beyond other cameras on the market.
Ah, I did not know that many other cameras had an electronic level function with automatic compensation, a composition adjustment feature, 100% viewfinder, top APS-C resolution sensor, and a WR kit.

I actually get wound up about such incompetence.
Or are they bribed by other manufacturers?
Does it matter which of the above reasons it is?


QuoteOriginally posted by Alfisti Quote
There are three places that review cameras, DPR, Imaging Resource and DCR ... the rest are utter and total hacks.
Don't forget Amateur Photographer.

BTW, according to DPR "What Digital Camera" used a pre-production hardware with firmware 1.0. Amateur Photographer decided to wait for a production hardware model.
06-23-2009, 02:12 AM   #89
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Response from What Digital Camera

As Editor of What Digital Camera I have been following this discussion about our K-7 review with interest.
Id like to draw your attention to our response to these comments on our forum.

Thanks,
Nigel Atherton
06-23-2009, 02:47 AM   #90
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nigel, your attention and willingness to accept feedback is appreciated (i speak for myself only, but i have a hunch i am not in a minority). constructive criticism is welcome in general, most people here are not brand-zealots, as far as i could tell;

what really ticked me off is not the slight mistakes (like the battery grip thingie, i understand that can happen, as i explained, embarassing as it may sound), not even the negative tone, but the feeling that the review brings no insight; the point of the review should be to help people who haven't had the chance to handle and use the camera, not to comment on some (publicly available) specs, and speculate. i would much rather hear the reviewer comment on his usage of the camera, in the field, for the kind of photography he usually does, and read his _subjective_ opinions on it, with honest explanations; ideally this would be connected to a description of the photographer, his way of work and the type of work he does/likes (because comments from a sports photographer will be different from ones from a landscape photographer, and i might relate better to one or the other). that would be of much more value to me, and i think i am not alone in this. i mention this (again) as i think, maybe, as an editor, you might understand (and find some use in) what i am getting at.

good luck
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