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06-26-2009, 08:57 AM   #61
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agreed, cyclic. but a cycle of 2 to 1 in less than a year is unheard of, i think. this is no cycle; yeah, what goes up, must go down, but 1. "do you think it has a safety 'shute?" 2. not unless it goes up at anything higher than the first cosmic speed (by definition, it means it will leave the earth atmosphere never to be seen again, for those not familiar with the term)



06-26-2009, 10:20 AM   #62
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I actually really feel for the dealers. The vast majority of my kit has been bought in person at SRS, so I know how they feel about it.

The trouble is, to get the message across to Pentax / Hoya that these price rises are just so over the top, the only way to do it would be to not buy new lenses. If everyone did that the prices would soon come back down again, but in the mean time it will hit the dealers hard.

It's a horrible situation, and I just hope they come to their senses very quickly.
06-26-2009, 10:39 AM   #63
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I'm not too concerned. Supply and demand at work. Coming out with a new body demand looks to be huge, I would be suprised if Pentax didn't rise prices to help make a little more $. $ goes into future lenses and projects. When the demand slows so will the prices. Besides you have to raise the prices so they sales for Christmas look all that much better
06-26-2009, 03:12 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dr_who Quote
I'm not too concerned. Supply and demand at work. Coming out with a new body demand looks to be huge, I would be suprised if Pentax didn't rise prices to help make a little more $. $ goes into future lenses and projects. When the demand slows so will the prices. Besides you have to raise the prices so they sales for Christmas look all that much better
that's all very nice, but you "haven't been paying attention", we are not talking 10 percent here, we are talking almost 100, not ten, but one hundred...

so tell me, how do you make money (on a new body or on a lens, or on both at the same time), when you are _not_ selling them because they are too expensive?

indeed it looks bad: if the dealers get "hurt", they will drop pentax by the time they (pentax) bother to ack they screwed up and the prices must go down... it's bad enough as it is now: i spent a day trying to find a dealer which has a k20d in stock (and i was lucky to find one anyway), so unless they stop this shit soon, in the _best_ case scenario we will end up buying from "the internet", and never touching the stuff first. i hate that idea.

06-26-2009, 03:54 PM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by nanok Quote

so tell me, how do you make money (on a new body or on a lens, or on both at the same time), when you are _not_ selling them because they are too expensive?
Well I'm not a Pentax dealer so I don't know how much store are marketing up prices for profit, but to assume NO one is buying is over exaggerated I think. I don't think they will have any problems selling and making money off new body such as the K7 cause it sound slike alot of people have pre-orders on one.

As for the glass are you saying Pentax glass isn't worth the price that its at now, or that you were used to it being at a lower price and regret not buying it while it was cheaper?
06-26-2009, 05:27 PM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by Unlocker Quote
I actually really feel for the dealers. The vast majority of my kit has been bought in person at SRS, so I know how they feel about it.

The trouble is, to get the message across to Pentax / Hoya that these price rises are just so over the top, the only way to do it would be to not buy new lenses. If everyone did that the prices would soon come back down again, but in the mean time it will hit the dealers hard.

It's a horrible situation, and I just hope they come to their senses very quickly.

The prices increase in the UK is due to a record weak Pound.....
06-26-2009, 05:31 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dr_who Quote
As for the glass are you saying Pentax glass isn't worth the price that its at now, or that you were used to it being at a lower price and regret not buying it while it was cheaper?
The answer to that is easy for me. I couldn't afford the previous retail price and so bought used. So I certainly cannot afford the current retail price.

The rather inexpensive and superior Pentax glass is why I went with Pentax in the first place. I would likely have made a different brand choice otherwise (likely Olympus). From my extensive forum and group readings I can assure you that many many other people are in the same boat.
06-26-2009, 05:58 PM   #68
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Message to Americans

Hehe, I told you so more than a month ago - buy lenses until they are cheap:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/60561-what-hell-hoya-t...enses-now.html

However people were putting it down to currency exchange rates, bad economical situation in Lithuania etc.

Now prices have jumped all over Europe.

Now is the message to Americans:
If you are planning to buy Pentax, lenses do it NOW!

It's just a matter of time when prices for Pentax lenses will jump in USA too. It's not exchange rate fluctuations, it's not strong yen - they do not produce anything in Japan anyway. Super high lens prices is the strategy of Hoya/Pentax.

06-26-2009, 11:59 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edvinas Quote
Hehe, I told you so more than a month ago - buy lenses until they are cheap:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/60561-what-hell-hoya-t...enses-now.html

However people were putting it down to currency exchange rates, bad economical situation in Lithuania etc.

Now prices have jumped all over Europe.

Now is the message to Americans:
If you are planning to buy Pentax, lenses do it NOW!

It's just a matter of time when prices for Pentax lenses will jump in USA too. It's not exchange rate fluctuations, it's not strong yen - they do not produce anything in Japan anyway. Super high lens prices is the strategy of Hoya/Pentax.
say it isn't so. just the exact thing and prediction that I was worried about. I hope it's not. My FA LBA collection is not yet complete. and I still need an ultra-wide lens 14 or 12-24 and a prime 300 2.8 to complete my needs.
06-27-2009, 12:09 AM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dr_who Quote
Well I'm not a Pentax dealer so I don't know how much store are marketing up prices for profit, but to assume NO one is buying is over exaggerated I think. I don't think they will have any problems selling and making money off new body such as the K7 cause it sound slike alot of people have pre-orders on one.
did i say "NO one"? "not selling" is short for "not selling enough to matter", as in, to make _money_

QuoteQuote:
As for the glass are you saying Pentax glass isn't worth the price that its at now, or that you were used to it being at a lower price and regret not buying it while it was cheaper?
that is precisely what i am saying, i am sorry, it is not worth the current (double) price.

let's see, a random selection of lenses, and some current prices

but before, please note: i expect the price of my non-stabilized lens to be at least in the range of the canon (for instance) non-stabilized lens, not in the range of the is one, this is what i was "promised" when i chose to buy into a body-stabilized system, right?

da* 16-50/2.8 20.695,
da* 50-135/2.8 22.969,
da* 60-250/4 29.925
dfa 100 macro 15.530
50/1.4 12 790
12-24/4 28 690

canon:

100 macro 13.375
70-200/4 L 16.087 (almost half of 60-250, non-is)
70-200/4 L(IS) 29.482
17-55//2.8 (IS) 23.504
50/1.4 9.213
50/1.8 2.926 (note, this used to not matter, the pentax 50/1.4
was supposed to be almost as cheap, it never was here, but in
the us at least it was)
10-22/some-crap 20.310 (people say it's not the greatest, don't know..)

nikon:

50/1.4 7.990 (10 590 for the "G", which is in the class with our 55sdm, right?)
105/2.8 micro vr 20.823
17-55/2.8 dx blah 33.686 (ouch)
70-200/2.8 VR (can't find a normal one) 52.523
12-24/4 25.531 (but i hear it's "class leading")

sony (hey, why the hell not?)

50/1.4 11 790
70-200/2.8 59 990
100/2.8 macro 23 690
16-80 3.5-4.5 23 190

sorry, i am lost, the most confusing lineup i have ever seen.

edit: updated with tamron prices, for completeness (following falk's theory)

tamron (kmount)

90 macro 12 190
10-24/some-crap 12 590
17-50/2.8 11 390
70-200/2.8 20 690

canon mount

12 190
12 590
11 390
20 690

(identical)

so, pentax vs canon.. hmm, anybody selling a 40d? seriously, the only slight edge is on the 16-50/2.8, and i can "almost" buy it from tokina for cheaper (not sealed and so on, but neither is the 40d ), but other than that... ouch, what a beating.

pentax vs nikon: okay, now i know why most nikon shooters i see shoot third party or old glass, their premium glass is not cheap. otoh, the cheap crap (not shown here) is cheaper than most (is pentax dreaming the same?). however it's still better in some cases (considerably better), like the wide end, the fast 50's, and a few others.

i won't comment on sony, maybe i just didn't find a proper dealer or something. my head spins already. they seem well covered on the tele side, though (but not cheap)

i should look at oly too, but i've had enough (and i might be in danger to go oly if i do..)

so am i saying pentax shouldn't be twice as expensive as canon? hell yeah. i have in-body is? great, but i payed for it (in some form or another), and i made this choice knowing i will save money after, so i expect to be able to reasonably compare prices to the non-is versions of canikon (you can say it's not fair, it is: if you turn in-body stabilization into a "feature" that i have to pay on my body, after which i pay is-lens prices for each lens, instead of _choosing_ if i want to pay it for each lens, or want to pay _half_ the price and only get the excellent optics, i'll take the in-lens system 8 out of 10).

Last edited by nanok; 06-27-2009 at 03:35 PM.
06-27-2009, 04:00 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dr_who Quote
As for the glass are you saying Pentax glass isn't worth the price that its at now, or that you were used to it being at a lower price and regret not buying it while it was cheaper?
Pentax glass is worth only as much, as Pentaxians are willing to pay for it. So, considering the reaction on this forum - no, it's not worth the price that its at now...
06-27-2009, 07:00 AM   #72
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I was looking into some long glass today; specifically, the Tamron 70-200 f2.8. I've got a magazine with an advertorial in it saying that "It's the only constant aperture fast telezoom under $1000..."

That's from when the lens was first released; now, it's up to $1400 or thereabouts. So maybe it's not just Pentax.

Having said that, and, being the bastard I am, I'm gonna play devil's advocate and say: look, bang for buck, from a business perspective, ain't really working.

There's a Blondie cartoon, where Dagwood's sitting in the greasy spoon diner, and find's out the coffee's now two dollars instead of twenty-five cents (or it might have originally been free; not a fan of Blondie, but it's normally on the same page as the crosswords.) Dagwood asks the cook, hey, what's with the price hike? It's the same coffee! And the cook says, we get more people buying it now they think it's expensive.

Sadly, the richest demographic out their for camera sales is what's technically known as "the gullible techno-yuppie." Granted, I'm always first to bitch about the dropkick who's only too keen to point out that his camera's better because it was more expensive, but face it, those guys have cash.
06-27-2009, 09:30 AM   #73
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Another thought ...

With only 4 German (Zeiss, Leica, Voigtländer, Schneider; all expensive) and 7 Japanese (Hoya Pentax, Hoya Tokina, Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Sigma, Tamron) vendors, they can in a sort of Japan-Corporation collectively decide that lens prices are too low and increase them altogether. If this has happened, then there is little what we can do about

I once read that it is common practice in Tokyo for the leaders of various big corporations to meet regularly. Which coined the term Japan Corporation.
06-27-2009, 11:25 AM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by ixian Quote
Pentax glass is worth only as much, as Pentaxians are willing to pay for it. So, considering the reaction on this forum - no, it's not worth the price that its at now...
I agree. The thing is, a lot of people bought into Pentax because it was talked about in forums as the value-for-money brand. I held off on a Canon or Nikon largely because of that - decent-priced lenses (the 50/1.4 was still widely available then) plus in-body IS swayed me to go Pentax. I reckon I'm not alone.

Of course, Hoya is free to do whatever with the brand, but I certainly won't be buying new Pentax products anytime soon.

QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Another thought ...

With only 4 German (Zeiss, Leica, Voigtländer, Schneider; all expensive) and 7 Japanese (Hoya Pentax, Hoya Tokina, Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Sigma, Tamron) vendors, they can in a sort of Japan-Corporation collectively decide that lens prices are too low and increase them altogether. If this has happened, then there is little what we can do about

I once read that it is common practice in Tokyo for the leaders of various big corporations to meet regularly. Which coined the term Japan Corporation.
Collusion eh? Well that's certainly not a good thing for us if it's true. Unfortunately, there's no one else making mass-market SLR lenses that's not based in Japan to keep them honest.
06-27-2009, 11:36 AM   #75
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Does anyone have inside information if there's going to be still more UK or Europe price hikes? A certain UK retailer (SRS) is selling the 15mm ltd lens on Ebay for about 600 punds and this is what they say:

QuoteQuote:
BUY BEFORE LARGE PRICE INCREASE - THIS LENS WILL BE NEARLY £800 VERY SOON.....
Geez if that's true!

I'm seriously considering three options now: 1) I'll keep my current Pentax system and wont buy new lenses no matter if I need some or not, 2) I'll buy just one badly needed wide lens - such as the DA 15mm - and that's it (like option 1 after that), 3) I'll sell all my Pentax stuff and change brand.
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