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07-08-2009, 07:10 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gruoso Quote
Samsung jumps over APS-C dslr and go for a APS-C NX with EVF and a new mount

Samsung is working on FF and new lenses for FF and people keep thinking that they would release such a camera on K-mount. For what, to let Pentax sell the lenses?. It doesnt make sense to me. If Samsung is thinking on FF I would imagine that they will be thinking on a different mount so they can also squeeze the money coming from lenses.
A fullframe Samsung camera with K-mount let to Samsung to use Sigma and Tamron fullframe K-mount lenses... and FA Pentax.
Will be a suicide to change the DSLR mount.
The NX camera is another history.

07-08-2009, 07:15 PM   #32
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It wouldn't surprise me if Pentax did release a full frame camera in the next year. It sure seems like they are pulling back with regard to the FA lenses. A release of updated FA lenses for the digital world would be fairly simple -- same lenses, but different coatings, etc.

At the same time, there is no way they want to admit that full frame is even a possibility when all of the lenses they are currently selling are pretty much APS-C. Not that it would really hurt them that much. I am convinced that most people are satisfied with APS-C for the cost and don't really feel the need to move up to full frame.

I don't believe for an instant that Sony will release a sub 2000 dollar full frame. Their whole DSLR business is bleeding out, there is no way that they will start a full frame at that low a price.
07-08-2009, 07:48 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
It wouldn't surprise me if Pentax did release a full frame camera in the next year. It sure seems like they are pulling back with regard to the FA lenses. A release of updated FA lenses for the digital world would be fairly simple -- same lenses, but different coatings, etc.

At the same time, there is no way they want to admit that full frame is even a possibility when all of the lenses they are currently selling are pretty much APS-C. Not that it would really hurt them that much. I am convinced that most people are satisfied with APS-C for the cost and don't really feel the need to move up to full frame.

I don't believe for an instant that Sony will release a sub 2000 dollar full frame. Their whole DSLR business is bleeding out, there is no way that they will start a full frame at that low a price.
Sony is doing quite good, but about 90% of their profits come from complete noobs. As in soccer moms that bought the twin or single kit and won't EVER upgrade. I still remember reading a review on Amazon on the A330. Cracked me up.

QuoteQuote:
I expected better from Sony...
It blurs even slow moving objects in sports mode. My child was just walking by and his face is blurred...big time....I bought the camera because it focused so quickly..DON'T BUY IT unless all of your subjects will be sitting still.
07-09-2009, 01:07 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote

I don't believe for an instant that Sony will release a sub 2000 dollar full frame. Their whole DSLR business is bleeding out, there is no way that they will start a full frame at that low a price.
Beware beware, I have said that a few times already and I keep geting bashed for it, even by true Pentaxians, just because they own some Sony apliances they feel they need to support them a bit.
But my source works at Sony Netherlands and while not in any way working in the photography deparment, they do occasionally share the same rooms for coffee breaks.
Sure they sell, sure they sell rather well, but they are nowhere near where they wanted to be by now. Some even thought they could be number two by now!!!

07-09-2009, 02:43 AM   #35
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Samsung made a new lens mount for the NX because they had to. It is a camera without mirror so the camera can be made thinner and as a result of this the distance between the lens mount and the sensor is shorter than for K-mount cameras. The K-mount does not work with mirrorless camera, so Samsung had to make a new "micro mount".

For a 24x36 camera with mirror and optical viewfinder, it is much cheaper for Samsung to simply use the K-mount that they already have a license for. Such a camera would be so expensive that the users won't have money for the lenses, and they are lot of K-mount lenses available 2nd hand. It makes sense for Samsung to continue with K-mount for the 24x36, unless the new 24x36 is also a mirrorless camera with only electronic viewfinder. In this case, they can use a new enlarged version of their micro mount.
07-09-2009, 03:33 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gruoso Quote
Samsung jumps over APS-C dslr and go for a APS-C NX with EVF and a new mount

Samsung is working on FF and new lenses for FF and people keep thinking that they would release such a camera on K-mount. For what, to let Pentax sell the lenses?. It doesnt make sense to me. If Samsung is thinking on FF I would imagine that they will be thinking on a different mount so they can also squeeze the money coming from lenses.
That's possibility number one. They'd have to secure a contract from someone else to produce the lenses, though, even if they are able to make their own designs. Cosina, Tamron, and Sigma may be up to the task. Rebadging existing lens designs from the aforementioned could end up much cheaper, though, and it may only need a change in the rear end to accommodate a new mount.

If Samsung does 24x36, their motivation to make another mount or not would probably depend on how many rebadged lenses of theirs have they sold already and how large their user base is in that segment. I would think Samsung is very much profitable in their home market of Korea, but I don't know Samsung DSLRs to be popular elsewhere. If they think they can deal with the backlash from existing customers, well, making a new mount would probably be more profitable for them in the long run and may be their choice.

QuoteOriginally posted by GLXLR Quote
Hah hah. Full frame...
Who would buy a Samsung FF other than Pentax users? It would instantly kill 1/3-1/4 of the Pentax community.
If their entrant to the 24x36 DSLR space is priced right (probably have to undercut Canon, Nikon, and Sony in price) and has competitive features, I'm sure it would move enough units to be profitable, and could be considered by people not fully-entrenched with their system of choice.

QuoteOriginally posted by GLXLR Quote
Sony is doing quite good, but about 90% of their profits come from complete noobs. As in soccer moms that bought the twin or single kit and won't EVER upgrade. I still remember reading a review on Amazon on the A330. Cracked me up.
Yeah, that's probably why Sony chose to refresh their entry-level line earlier than the A700. I suspect those units won't sell as much, though, seeing how the video-enabled Rebels and D5000 would be more alluring to buyers, even if AF is non-existent with video capture.

The GH1 could have also muscled in on the action, but for that to happen, the price should be competitive with the T1i and D5000, and I doubt people would see the extra $700 to be worth it to have a lens with bigger zoom range and AF in video mode. I mean, it may really be worth the extra $700, but just looking at hard prices, going above that $1000 (psychological?) barrier may possibly turn a lot of potential customers away.

QuoteOriginally posted by janneman Quote
Beware beware, I have said that a few times already and I keep geting bashed for it, even by true Pentaxians, just because they own some Sony apliances they feel they need to support them a bit.
But my source works at Sony Netherlands and while not in any way working in the photography deparment, they do occasionally share the same rooms for coffee breaks.
Sure they sell, sure they sell rather well, but they are nowhere near where they wanted to be by now. Some even thought they could be number two by now!!!
I think it's Sony themselves who thought they'd be able to get to number 2 as of this moment. I really don't think it's that easy to dislodge either Canon or Nikon, even if Sony is as big a company as either of the two. It just takes time to do that. I wonder how impatient or patient Sony is to get to number two, but it will never happen overnight.

Say what you will about their 3-model barrage of the entry-level sector the last time around, but I'm sure as hell that's the reason why they sat at number three (and leap-frogged Olympus and Pentax in the process) by the end of last year.

QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
For a 24x36 camera with mirror and optical viewfinder, it is much cheaper for Samsung to simply use the K-mount that they already have a license for. Such a camera would be so expensive that the users won't have money for the lenses, and they are lot of K-mount lenses available 2nd hand. It makes sense for Samsung to continue with K-mount for the 24x36, unless the new 24x36 is also a mirrorless camera with only electronic viewfinder. In this case, they can use a new enlarged version of their micro mount.
I have no hard facts about how much licensing costs, but I do think Samsung has the money to throw at a new mount should they decide to do that. I don't know if they'll do that, though, if they're confident enough to go at it on their own, if the backlash from their existing customers would be huge, stuff like that.

Your idea of a mirrorless 24x36 camera sounds interesting, though.
07-09-2009, 04:00 AM   #37
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$1500 GH1 includes a $900 HD lens

GH1 without lens may be a $600 Camera? I think that makes GH1 more affordable than new HD Rebel T1i which sells at B&H for $769 and GH1 autofocuses during video capture, if you like:

Panasonic LUMIX G VARIO HD 14-140mm f/4-5.8 ASPH MEGA - eBay (item 400052392977 end time Jul-25-09 22:00:00 PDT)

& for ultrawide angle capture, heres their 7-14mm f4 available for under $1,100. With 2x crop its like a solid 14-28mm f4 :


Panasonic LUMIX G VARIO 7-14mm f/4.0 ASPH. New - eBay (item 400058212885 end time Jul-25-09 20:58:42 PDT)


It seems one could drop $2,699 on a 5D Mark II & get no glass or assessories

versus

$1,499 GH1 plus HD 14-140mm HD lens plus $1,100 for ultrawide 7-14mm f4 for $100 bill less than 5DMark II.

Last edited by Samsungian; 07-09-2009 at 04:15 AM. Reason: added comparision 5DII vs GH1 & two lens for less coin
07-09-2009, 04:08 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
GH1 without lens may be a $600 Camera? I think that makes GH1 more affordable than new HD Rebel T1i which sells at B&H for $769 and GH1 autofocuses during video capture, if you like:

Panasonic LUMIX G VARIO HD 14-140mm f/4-5.8 ASPH MEGA - eBay (item 400052392977 end time Jul-25-09 22:00:00 PDT)

& for ultrawide angle capture, heres their 7-14mm f4 available for under $1,100. With crop its like a solid 14-28mm f4 :


Panasonic LUMIX G VARIO 7-14mm f/4.0 ASPH. New - eBay (item 400058212885 end time Jul-25-09 20:58:42 PDT)
I really think Panny should have another kit consisting of the GH1 body and their 14-45mm lens. If the intent is to target so-called soccer moms, I think they'd be shocked at a $900 price tag on one lens alone.

Bringing the price of the GH1 kit to under $1000 makes it more palatable to more people, I think. Even bring it to $900, and buyers might see it worth the price to pay $50 or so for full-functioning AF in video.

That's no diss at the 14-140, since by most accounts it is the first such lens (for primarily still cameras) that is tailor-made for shooting video. The $900 tag just might not be understood much by people outside of hobbyists and pros.

07-09-2009, 04:12 AM   #39
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I dunno if it's been posted elsewhere, but going back to Samsung-related news, I found this post over at DPR.

Basically, the poster found news from Korea as to who would be making the lenses for the NX. The company's name is OPTRON-TEC, and I'm guessing that might be Samsung's source for lenses in their digital cameras. It would be interesting to see how their lenses will perform on the NX, as, personally, it's the first time I've heard of the company.
07-09-2009, 04:29 AM   #40
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$900 lenses are becoming common, no?

Having a $900 lens included with a $1500 camera seems more appealing to me than a $1299 body only K-7, or a $2699 body only 5DII.

I find the GH1 more appealing than the unpriced & unissued & unspec'd Samsung NX and their unissued Optron-Tec Glass.

Is $1,500 for a camera with HD lens with image stabilization included that much money thesedays compared to all other HD capable dslrs?

It seems one could drop $2,699 on a 5D Mark II & get no glass or assessories

versus

$1,499 GH1 with HD 14-140mm HD lens plus $1,100 for ultrawide 7-14mm f4 for $100 bill less than 5DMark II.



QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
I really think Panny should have another kit consisting of the GH1 body and their 14-45mm lens. If the intent is to target so-called soccer moms, I think they'd be shocked at a $900 price tag on one lens alone.

Bringing the price of the GH1 kit to under $1000 makes it more palatable to more people, I think. Even bring it to $900, and buyers might see it worth the price to pay $50 or so for full-functioning AF in video.

That's no diss at the 14-140, since by most accounts it is the first such lens (for primarily still cameras) that is tailor-made for shooting video. The $900 tag just might not be understood much by people outside of hobbyists and pros.
07-09-2009, 05:07 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
Having a $900 lens included with a $1500 camera seems more appealing to me than a $1299 body only K-7, or a $2699 body only 5DII.

I find the GH1 more appealing than the unpriced & unissued & unspec'd Samsung NX and their unissued Optron-Tec Glass.

Is $1,500 for a camera with HD lens with image stabilization included that much money thesedays compared to all other HD capable dslrs?

It seems one could drop $2,699 on a 5D Mark II & get no glass or assessories

versus

$1,499 GH1 with HD 14-140mm HD lens plus $1,100 for ultrawide 7-14mm f4 for $100 bill less than 5DMark II.

You can't let pass the fact hat most people ignore you, can you?
I don't agree with your analysis but so you don't agree with me and heck I don't care at all.

But the way you come back two posts later with the same message rehashed just to be able to place it again is realy getting on my nerves.

Are you doing it on purpose or you just can't help doing it?
07-09-2009, 05:22 AM   #42
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Dearest Thibs, I was responding to Vinzer

Thanks for making my day

;^)

Getting on your nerves brings me much joy, & a nice way to start my Thursday.


So Thibs, You buying a K-7?

You buying any new pentax gear this year?

You buying anything new from anyone this year?

Just Curious.

Anyways, I find my point you're ignoring compelling. Why spend $1300 on a body only K-7 when for $200 more you get a $900 lens included with GH1???

You see:

Having a $900 lens included with a $1500 camera seems more appealing to me than a $1299 body only K-7, or a $2699 body only 5DII.

I find the GH1 more appealing than the unpriced & unissued & unspec'd Samsung NX and their unissued Optron-Tec Glass.

Is $1,500 for a camera with HD lens with image stabilization included that much money thesedays compared to all other HD capable dslrs?

It seems one could drop $2,699 on a 5D Mark II & get no glass or assessories

versus

$1,499 GH1 with HD 14-140mm HD lens plus $1,100 for ultrawide 7-14mm f4 for $100 bill less than 5DMark II.






QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
You can't let pass the fact hat most people ignore you, can you?
I don't agree with your analysis but so you don't agree with me and heck I don't care at all.

But the way you come back two posts later with the same message rehashed just to be able to place it again is realy getting on my nerves.

Are you doing it on purpose or you just can't help doing it?
07-09-2009, 05:41 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by janneman Quote
Beware beware, I have said that a few times already and I keep geting bashed for it, even by true Pentaxians, just because they own some Sony apliances they feel they need to support them a bit.
But my source works at Sony Netherlands and while not in any way working in the photography deparment, they do occasionally share the same rooms for coffee breaks.
Sure they sell, sure they sell rather well, but they are nowhere near where they wanted to be by now. Some even thought they could be number two by now!!!
From everything I've heard from local friends who work for Sony, it sounds like a deeply divided firm, with various conflicting motivations in different units that really shouldn't be competing. Imagine hearing one of your division heads say "I'm a guy who doesn't see anything good having come from the Internet."

As for Samsung, they certainly haven't seemed to be following their model of "enter a new market with the aim to dominate".

I guess they both have other things on their mind right now.

Sony transforms itself for tough, competitive times - Jun. 25, 2009

Samsung's Surprise Could Be One-Off - WSJ.com
07-09-2009, 05:49 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
It seems one could drop $2,699 on a 5D Mark II & get no glass or assessories

versus

$1,499 GH1 with HD 14-140mm HD lens plus $1,100 for ultrawide 7-14mm f4 for $100 bill less than 5DMark II.
It seems such a bogus comparison. It's really like comparing apples and... pumpkins maybe... anyway the GH1 while appealing as an all-in-one still and video cam, is a 2 or 3 lenses system. The 14-140mm is interesting and has good performance but it's also a slow lenses on a sensor that is handicapped at high ISO. Comparing the GH1 to the K-7, the Pentax is a much stronger still camera with many more lenses option. And OVF are still much more comfortable than any EVF.
07-09-2009, 09:28 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote

unless the new 24x36 is also a mirrorless camera with only electronic viewfinder. In this case, they can use a new enlarged version of their micro mount.
Exactly....
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