Mathematics can be an art form, no question about it. At the highest of levels, it is incredibly subjective. Mathematics, especially in the context of theoretical physics, is an art form like no other. It is certainly a medium that can express one's intention, intuition, and throw a dark cast on morality. The way Einstein used mathematics in describing relativity was a poor art form. In comparison, the way Richard Feynman utilized in fluid dynamics was a pure art form.

[falconeye]

Sorry for bringing the thread OT. But I didn't start it, it was nostatic in post #33

I concede that math is not an art which contributes to the artistic potential of a photographer. In this respect, I agree with nostatic.


What I wanted to say is this:

Math is an art (like music, literature, painting etc.). For the following reason:


- Math uses a language 99% of people don't understand.

- And of the 1%, 99% of people only write or read the equivalent of user manuals. Which (most of the time) is not art. Most of the comments being made above would apply here.

- But of the remaining 0.01%, some have created the equivalent of poems. And there is no doubt about it.


Some of these poems made me have tears in my eyes when I was first able to read them. I mean it literally. Tears! And who knows me knows that I am not normally moved to tears.

Personally, I don't only consider mathematics an art, I consider it the art mankind can be most proud of.


--
P.S.
- "the goal in math is an answer": no. This is confusing math with calculus. Math has no purpose and isn't even a natural science.

- "with math you cannot create 1+2=4 and make it beautiful": Yes, of course you can. But not everybody can. Not, if you're not an artist...

[deejjjaaaa]

RMabo, who certainly seems well informed of Pentax's company line.

of course - he has access to marketing materials , I have said that before... he is good in repeating bullet points provided there.

[deejjjaaaa]

Mr Benjamin barely shoots at ISOs above 400 (his words not mine). Mr Benjamin makes a living of mastering and using lighting so he doesnt have to push the shadows too far. Mr Benjamin can print billboards with the right sharpening and upsizing technique and high-tech printing facilities. Mr Benjamin has been in the business for gods know how long so we can agree he is an expert photographer. Mr Oleg and Mr Gordon discussions only affect to the remaining 99.9% of humans.

Now the question is not whether Mr Oleg or Mr Gordon can print billboards. The question is whether Mr RMabo can.

So far you dont give any argument rebating what they found. Just some second handed "feel good" argument which has proven to be effective in Pentax forums. But whoever has had the opportunity to shoot an image with some dynamic range (say landscape) have found himself in the situation where trying to improve the dark shadows is a lost cause. I know I know, a tripod, some bracketed shoots and a hefty investment of time would make your image suitable for Mr Benjamin printing sizes

very good observation !

[deejjjaaaa]

Sorry, but 99,9% of all images are shot at normal ISO values.

did you check the situation w/ cameras that can actually deliver a good image @ high ISO or you are making a virtue out of necessity again ? camera can't deal w/ high iso -> people either don't shoot @ high iso or just don't post -> you come claiming that 99.9% of all images are shot at normal ISO values... good logic.

[deejjjaaaa]

Gordon and anyone else who cares to check the math can certainly verify it from THAT year old thread.

from THAT and THIS... he is certainly is not as polite as GordonBGood and he does not care about usability (features) of the camera (K-7), only about sensor... that is the only difference between him and GordonBGood... and yes, unlike GordonBGood he is not that polite... that's it.

To those with a formidable command of mathematics, it is more of an art form than photography can ever be.

[nostatic]

Sorry for bringing the thread OT. But I didn't start it, it was nostatic in post #33

sure...throw me under the bus...

Math is an art (like music, literature, painting etc.). For the following reason:

.

Ahh, now we're getting into language precision. I did not say that math wasn't an art. I said it wasn't art. Those are two very different sentences

[nostatic]

To those with a formidable command of mathematics, it is more of an art form than photography can ever be.

See? Point proven.

You probably have no idea how much you have just marginalized art.

I am sorry but if you try and boost the last stop of shadows by 3 EV you are simply trying to expand 1 stop of shadow detail into 4 stops when there really is not 4 stops of actual information to start with. The noise may also increase, but its not something you should really consider doing anyway because it looks so fake.

Generally expansion of the darkest 4 stops of the tone curve is what most people do to recover shadows, either by altering the tone curve or using the shadow/highlight tool. Long before noise shows up the image looks blocky and fake because the colour information is simply lacking to boost it more than a stop or so whatever camera you use, so noise levels are a theoretical issue only.

Having said that I routinely use shadow recovery on K20 files with no problems. I just dont overdo it.

For any scene with more than about 9 stops of DR, you are much better off using HDR and hey, guess what - Pentax has it built in!

If Pentax has an issue at all its simply a rather abrupt highlight rolloff, which forces you to underexpose. I would like to see that improved and from what I can see the K7 is much better.

Nice explanation and very valid points. It makes sense.

[nosnoop]

skip the usual bullshit from RMabo

I read more BS from you than any else in this forum. :ugh:

[Pål Jensen]

did you check the situation w/ cameras that can actually deliver a good image @ high ISO or you are making a virtue out of necessity again ? camera can't deal w/ high iso -> people either don't shoot @ high iso or just don't post -> you come claiming that 99.9% of all images are shot at normal ISO values... good logic.

Theres only one camera with "good quality" high ISO performance on the market and thats the D700. If thats what you want, buy it. It is not night and day anyway.
Still, 99% of all images are shot at normal ISO values and all images from current APS cameras can yield high ISO quality thats virtually indistinguishable in large prints....

See? Point proven.

You probably have no idea how much you have just marginalized art.

I agree with your comments most of the time, but this one I have to respectfully disagree. Art is not something that can be marginalized so easily with a stroke of a pen( or keyboard, I suppose). In fact, I cannot think of anything whatsoever that can marginalize art.

[nostatic]

ok, well then marginalized photography.

Unless I misunderstood, you elevated math above photography in the "Hierarchy of Art"®

It's kind of like saying music is a higher form of art than painting.

Well, music is the highest form of art so bad example

[nostatic]

In fact, I cannot think of anything whatsoever that can marginalize art.

Maybe you haven't seen my photos yet. I define "marginal."

Do you have any nude photos of your wife?

Do you want to buy some?

bada-bing. I'll be here all week...try the veal.