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07-17-2009, 04:51 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by fwbigd Quote
I took about 30 shots at local camera store with the K20D when it first came out and knew instantly it was not that much better than then K10D. After I got the images home and reviewed them in Photoshop, I knew I had made the right decision.

Sounds like if you had the same chance as I did, you would have saved yourself $1,300. That why I don't buy equipment that I haven't seen or touched.
It sounds like it is a bit different for everyone. I can now see your point too. I do agree that if you have a chance to put your hands on it, you should, and I did that as well. But by the time I got to the Yodobashi Camera in Tokyo, there was no turning back for me. I was going to buy it no matter what. So that you guys know, I don't have any regret buying K-7. No buyer's remorse here. The way I look at it is that at least it was not $13,000. I think that a huge part of what I feel is the super-hype leading up to the release of this camera. I am certainly at fault here too, but perhaps we made this camera a whole lot more than what it was to begin with.

07-17-2009, 05:53 PM   #32
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Huh, I just visited the local Penn today. I almost asked whether they had the K-7 but I'm not ready to buy and I was in a hurry so let it slide. I've been a great advocate of supporting local shops but they're abandoning me--not the reverse. I'm thinking that, when I am ready to upgrade from the K20D, I might just have to cross the Potomac and buy from Ace.

Last edited by dadipentak; 07-18-2009 at 11:59 AM.
07-17-2009, 07:09 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by GLXLR Quote
Then again, a lot of camera chains in general are being closed (ones that hold CaNikon as well).
This is so true look at Ritz/wolf. Arlinton Camera dropped Pentax because they wanted to deal with a live salesperson that called on them and not an order taker on the phone line.
07-18-2009, 04:21 AM   #34
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Specialty Electronics retail, particularly small ones, are not going to survive. Remember CD stores? mostly gone, replaced by online purchase and download.

The only disadvantage of online purchasing is that youdo not get to feel the product before purchase. However, with liberal exchange policies like at B&H and J&R, you can try the product and return if you dont like. THis is even better than trying at the store.

07-18-2009, 09:00 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by spartan Quote
Specialty Electronics retail, particularly small ones, are not going to survive. Remember CD stores? mostly gone, replaced by online purchase and download.

The only disadvantage of online purchasing is that youdo not get to feel the product before purchase. However, with liberal exchange policies like at B&H and J&R, you can try the product and return if you dont like. THis is even better than trying at the store.
It would be good only if *all* manufacturers go the online-only route, but with Canon and Nikon still retaining space in retail outlets, they're more likely to be picked up and bought by people instead of the missing Pentax products. You really can't underestimate enough the importance of shelf space, even if a lot of people eventually end up buying online. Of course, us here have mostly done our homework, which is why we ended up buying Pentax, but there are more people who rely on what they see in stores rather than spending hours comparing features and reviews online.

I think some of them thinks like this: they see Canon and Nikon on display in their local retailer, they think only those two are worth buying, especially when they see ads for those cameras in many forms of media.

Even if only for a small section, I still think it's for Pentax's own benefit if they retain some display space for their products.
07-18-2009, 12:50 PM   #36
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I don't see me investing over $1,000 in a product I want to try to see if it fits my hands and I like the way it functions, just to send it back and hope for a timely refund.

Tom

QuoteOriginally posted by spartan Quote
Specialty Electronics retail, particularly small ones, are not going to survive. Remember CD stores? mostly gone, replaced by online purchase and download.

The only disadvantage of online purchasing is that youdo not get to feel the product before purchase. However, with liberal exchange policies like at B&H and J&R, you can try the product and return if you dont like. THis is even better than trying at the store.
07-18-2009, 09:15 PM   #37
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Thanks for the tip about Ace Photo

I've bought all my Pentax cameras from Penn Camera since the late 1970s.
In those days, the folks at their old store on E street downtown were the ones who recommend Pentax to me, and I've stayed with Pentax and Penn since.
I bought my K20 from them last year.

I did notice that there wasn't any Pentax equipment on the shelves when I was there recently. The salesman just said to me, "I wish that Pentax was a better seller for us. They are a third-tier company."

Thanks for telling me about Ace. While they are a little out of the way, I will definately check them out for my next purchase. I was planning on getting a K-7 in a few months.

David
07-19-2009, 04:27 AM   #38
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I wish that Pentax had a bigger presence in the big box retailers -- it is my feeling that a lot of people entering in to a DSLR go to Best Buy or some place like that to buy their first camera. If there were K2000's strategically placed and the staff was knowledgeable, it could make a big difference. Of course, after years of pushing Canon and Nikon, that's pretty unlikely to change...

07-19-2009, 06:40 AM   #39
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Neither of my local BestBuys display Pentax Brand

"Pentax had a Bigger Presence"

They have Zero Presence here in my tiny 400,000 person town.

Not sure how you can hold Salespeople accountable for selling gear they do not carry. Heck they do not carry Leica either, so why bother selling it too? Shouldn't the salepeople push brands they have instock, & that they carry instore? My HomeDepot lumber store has "Pentax" on their website, but not a single item instore. I get the Most Clueless expressions at HomeDepot when I bother to ask again where their Pentax cameras are ;^)

Savy Photogear buyers buy online. My first point & shoot digital came from BestBuy in 1999. And thats the last camera I bought from BestBuy. It served my immediate needs while I continued to shoot film thru 2006. It still works fine today. Exactly why do I need to buy a new camera every year?

My local proshops would talk absolute trash about B&H for years & years. I was so gullible & believed this crap for 9 additional years and it wasn't till early 2008 that I placed my first B&H order. Now I buy NO NEW Gear from any local shop, nor will I ever again. But I'm a savy shopper, not a newbie.

Pentax chooses to not be instores by requiring higher annual purchase minimums and offering no rep support whereas Nikon and Canon are just the opposite. Thats why the Big2 take 81% dslr market share and the rest happily fight over the remaining 19%. Instead of Pentax making more customers they've deployed the lens price increases to get more out of the existing user base. Less unit sales for more Coin. Lets face it pentax should be even more affordable as they've outsourced all their production lines out of Japan. I own new gear from both Canon and Nikon and its still"made in japan". Though I did buy a really exceptional & cheapo VR Nikon zoom made in Thailand but its was priced right due to being made at an outsourced factory.

Whether Pentax Logo'd gear is better or worse than Nikon and Canon does not matter. In shelf space ,hands on competetion they loose. Infact they don't even bother showing up to compete.



QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I wish that Pentax had a bigger presence in the big box retailers -- it is my feeling that a lot of people entering in to a DSLR go to Best Buy or some place like that to buy their first camera. If there were K2000's strategically placed and the staff was knowledgeable, it could make a big difference. Of course, after years of pushing Canon and Nikon, that's pretty unlikely to change...

Last edited by Samsungian; 07-19-2009 at 07:00 AM.
07-19-2009, 08:06 AM   #40
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I heard a couple of interesting details of what is going on at Hoya.

Basically, what we see is the tip of an iceberg effect of Hoya starting to apply professional management policies. Actually, Hoya may be more keen in listening to non Japanese people than Pentax ever was... Not entirely a bad thing.

Two immediate consequences have been this:

- Dealers dumping prices or selling Pentax but without any commitment to the brand ("yes we carry Pentax but would rather sell you Canon anyway") will see their contracts disrupted. In the future, you will have to provide a good exposition of Pentax and some basic knowledge of the brand to be allowed to carry Pentax at all.

- Lenses with very low sales quantity but expensive to build have their prices been adjusted so that every sold lens doesn't create a loss.


Yes, some of the deals you could find for Pentax last year have created losses for Pentax! Not anymore.

The good side of this is that Hoya has faith in the Pentax brand and works hard to bring it back on track. However, it will require some more tears before we arrive...
07-19-2009, 11:48 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
- Lenses with very low sales quantity but expensive to build have their prices been adjusted so that every sold lens doesn't create a loss....

You know...I have no problems with this. Great lensea are worth the investment; they litterally last forever. My oldest lens is the 18/3.5 which I bought in 1978. I was still at school and had to work the whole summer to affford it. It was very expensive; I haven't regretted it for a moment. My friend bought a cheap 17mm Tokina for his Canon. His lens was useless in the sun due to flare and couldn't be compared to the Pentax. Today I can probably sell my lens for more than I paid for it.
07-19-2009, 12:04 PM   #42
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My point was just that you have to build a base before you can sell upper end cameras. Most people who buy a Nikon D40 never move to an upper end camera, but those that do will most likely stay with Nikon. Why would they buy a Pentax at that point? Therefore, the important thing is to sell more entry level Pentax's (K2000).
07-19-2009, 12:23 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
I heard a couple of interesting details of what is going on at Hoya.

Basically, what we see is the tip of an iceberg effect of Hoya starting to apply professional management policies. Actually, Hoya may be more keen in listening to non Japanese people than Pentax ever was... Not entirely a bad thing.

Two immediate consequences have been this:

- Dealers dumping prices or selling Pentax but without any commitment to the brand ("yes we carry Pentax but would rather sell you Canon anyway") will see their contracts disrupted. In the future, you will have to provide a good exposition of Pentax and some basic knowledge of the brand to be allowed to carry Pentax at all.

- Lenses with very low sales quantity but expensive to build have their prices been adjusted so that every sold lens doesn't create a loss.


Yes, some of the deals you could find for Pentax last year have created losses for Pentax! Not anymore.

The good side of this is that Hoya has faith in the Pentax brand and works hard to bring it back on track. However, it will require some more tears before we arrive...
Thanks for the info
07-19-2009, 12:59 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
My point was just that you have to build a base before you can sell upper end cameras. Most people who buy a Nikon D40 never move to an upper end camera, but those that do will most likely stay with Nikon. Why would they buy a Pentax at that point? Therefore, the important thing is to sell more entry level Pentax's (K2000).

But Pentax have been selling entry level SLR's longer than any other japanese manufacturer.
My guess is that the K-7 is Pentax best selling DSLR and will stay so for awhile....
07-19-2009, 03:54 PM   #45
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I agree old K Mount glass is investment grade but

I do not have confidence in the long term durability & build quality of today's SDM *. Ever seen this thread? 25 pages of mostly unhappy Pentax SDM * lens buyers that are keeping a serial number log & listing their as delivered defects & poor quality control:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/22297-da-16-50...-database.html


QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
You know...I have no problems with this. Great lensea are worth the investment; they litterally last forever. My oldest lens is the 18/3.5 which I bought in 1978. I was still at school and had to work the whole summer to affford it. It was very expensive; I haven't regretted it for a moment. My friend bought a cheap 17mm Tokina for his Canon. His lens was useless in the sun due to flare and couldn't be compared to the Pentax. Today I can probably sell my lens for more than I paid for it.
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