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07-22-2009, 10:22 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by vk4akp Quote
I don't mind at all putting 6x AA's in.

Hell some of my radio's I use I run 6-10 AA's.

.-.-.
Yes, but they only do FM, .... ..

73
Rui

07-22-2009, 11:44 AM   #47
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I theory I fully agree with you, Gary but look at every other manufacturer that still has (at least) a model that's as inexpensive as possible even with the cost of a lot of neutered feature. Canon has the 1000D, Nikon still has even D40 and lots of D60s and Sony just released virtually another A200 in a smaller package and less features (A230). Every mount IMO needs a bottom priced model and Pentax could do an extremely well featured one in my vision on K-m v.2 (with about anything minus LV and movie mode). I also think that they could attack a lot of emerging markets with such a camera counting on price/features ratio to add new users. Finally by such an upgrade they would only make many components less expensive for the other cameras by making more of each.

Regards,
Radu

QuoteOriginally posted by Damn Brit Quote
Hi Radu,
I see one chink in your argument and that is regarding the entry level model. IMO, it's the entry level model that needs all the bells and whistles. If Pentax is going to have a chance of taking a larger share of the market, they need to advance on all fronts.
The entry level needs gadgets to attract the Noobs and the Sups (Step Up From P&S),
The mid level needs sufficient QC, IQ etc. to attract those coming from entry level (across the brands) who have decided to get more serious about photography.
The flagship needs to be able to compete with the big boys.
07-22-2009, 12:49 PM   #48
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Most basic entry level:
*No SR, No WR, No LCD, Many mega pixels (14 will do). No extras - plain strap, cheap/no "KIT" AA's, no hoods. Lowest price on the market.
*INSTANT operation (dosn't have to be dead on... just enough to be sharp on PC LCD with F3.5 and smaller kit DOF). Bright and impressive AF assist laser light show always welcome.
(How much is laser pointers with those pretty pattern heads.. 3$?).
*Strong default post processing to produce spectacular test results (smear noise, sharpen to fake details, boost vibrancy/clarity - do not oversaturate).
*Add a load of "unique" software(no actual cost) features, like focus bracketing, MF distance scale, intervalometer, pdf photo album, gauge style gui, "scanner mode", <any nonsense here> - push them to be emphasized as missing in competitors and important in popular review's.
*Make as small (no motor, no SR should help) as advances P&S, but "serious" looking - aggressive lines, big screws, big label.
*Include X in the name - K-Xtreme or smth. Add red/orange coloured band all over the body. Preferable at diagonal angle (or just keep it black and serious looking - still keep the X in PentaX big and red).
*Limited third party product support (SDM only body, with simple AF-S style lens - no supersonic, ordinary internal motor). Ultra zoom'ish kit.. 18-135?
*Heavy, aggressive, even misleading advertising. So even non photographers could recall the name in the middle of the night. Some dumb introduction campaign, a lottery or catchy ad-movie series featuring celebrities/famous photographers.
^ Flood popular sites with outstanding "real life sample images" actually taken by professionals (you know they can take a fascinating picture with P&S) to show the cameras true capabilities. Otherwise at the very beginning, when many people have big interest in product they are often circulated with hand-held "test shots" under bad lighting, with unattractive subjects in first owners premises (like dirty keyboards, random cardboard boxes - often original camera packaging, books etc), taken by person not yet familiar with the new camera using some old, dirty or included kit lens. Not very attractive examples to potential buyers.

That's what *most* point and shoot users notice.
If they start to think, then they skip entry level to something like k20d and look for the lenses available anyways.
If cheap enough many hinger level camera owners would buy this for backup aswell, even with the lack of features.

Then you need something that is reasonably featured, and obviously cheaper than high end cam. For those who think, but are short of money.
This has to offer best value for money balancing the features.


Just some dumb fantasies.

Last edited by ytterbium; 07-22-2009 at 01:17 PM.
07-22-2009, 12:58 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by ytterbium Quote
That's what *most* point and shoot users notice.
If they start to think, then they skip entry level to something like k20d and look for the lenses available.

Just some dumb fantasies.
Feer! Say this around Pentax *not.* They just aren't good at thinking that way. Next thing you know, everything will be ersatz chrome and they'll be named something people can't even proniunce uniformly.

07-22-2009, 01:14 PM   #50
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Lol.. so true. What could be bad enough camera name to use?
`krD ?
07-22-2009, 01:23 PM   #51
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no 14MP

I doubt the K200D's replacement will have a 14.6MP sensor like the K-7; ever since the "K" series of DSLRs began, Pentax has always kept the highest end camera distinctly separate from the rest of the line by using a higher MP sensor in it.

K10D - 10MP
K100/110D - 6MP

K20D - 14.6MP
K200/2000D - 10MP

I could be entirely wrong, though, and trends can certainly change.

So here's what I see coming as a 200D replacement:

- Lower than 14MP sensor
- Live View
- Video 50% chance but very likely, IMHO
- Slower FPS than K-7, probably 2.8-3
- Weather sealed
- Pentamirror VF
- I doubt it will use AAs, especially because of live-view and video. Would be wise for them to use K10/20D battery in the body and make the new camera compatible with the K200D's AA battery grip...
- Other higher end features missing, like 1/8000s shutter speed, but many other K-7 features carried over.

Last edited by AM2; 07-22-2009 at 01:33 PM.
07-22-2009, 01:51 PM   #52
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For MP - Remember istD's.. didnt they all use the same 6 Mpix sensor and K series dosnt have such a long history and traditions to rely on. Pentax likes to take easier (cheaper?) road. Why develop new sensor just to lower MPix, would it be cheaper?
At most they could just get another one from sony.. do they offer 12Mpx? D90 has kodak?
Most likely use the same/updated 10Mpix, if they really wish to seperate Mpix count.

Other than that i think your'e quite right. Just dont think of a too many features in a mid-lvl camera.
07-22-2009, 03:00 PM   #53
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AA batteries a must

Well, I still don't see why they can't make a body that can take both a lithium battery or a set of AA's in the same slot?

If the lithium power is that necessary for things like video they could make it obvious in the fliers and manual that it has the unique feature of offering both power sources.

The convenience of AA batteries for on the go travel shooting.

And lithium power for the more demanding needs of video modes.

They way things are going, if I find they have brought out another pig like the K-M to replace the K200D I will just go out and find another K200D NOS and buy that to keep in the cupboard as a spare and not bother upgrading. Put money into lens's instead.

Oh and one of my portable AA battery powered radio's does have SSB as well!. And CW! Not just FM ..-. -.-- ..

.-.-.

07-22-2009, 03:24 PM   #54
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QuoteQuote:
I surely hope that the K200D offers something different from the entry-level competition other than build quality, where it was negated due to the fact that the K200D was one of the only entry-level dSLRs without live-view.
I bought my K200D in no small part because of its build quality, in spite of the missing [insert whiz bang feature here] that competitors had. I guess I show my age here.

Having seen lots of gadgets that majored in features but minored in quality gather dust at the back of the closet because they just don't work anymore, I'll take quality over extra features any day.

Live view isn't that helpful to how I make pictures: looking at a (low resolution) picture of -- well, what I want to make a picture of -- is not a very satisfying process for me.

My "vote" probably shouldn't count though. I'll still be making pictures with my K200D long after it's successor is passe.
07-22-2009, 06:23 PM   #55
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The issue is video. They are going to want to have that on their mid level camera and as far as I know, the 10 megapixel CCD that is in the K200/K2000/K10 can't do video. That means that they will have to either find another sensor that can do video or, leverage their relationship with Samsung to put the same sensor from the k7 into this midlevel camera. If they aren't trying to shoe horn it into as small a package and they keep the bells and whistles to a minimum, they can easily have some separation between the new camera and the K7.

Of course, over time that separation tends to get compressed. Think about the fact that a new K20 right now costs about 600 dollars and a new K2000 costs about 450 dollars...
07-22-2009, 06:59 PM   #56
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How about the old K20d sensor (no video, or if it is, no HD - or 720p).
Or maybe the Sony 12.3mp sensor.
The focussing unit, shutter and improved SR from the K-M. (they better sort out the orientation sensor and the focus point selection though!)

Smaller body - but with the top plate. Weathersealed. With weathersealed lenses.

I agree that the viewfinder might be a pentamirror - I'm hoping mid-range quality is that a Pentaprism is there, but acknowledge that it is probably not.
07-22-2009, 07:40 PM   #57
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To differentiate at mid-range what is needed is a mix of higher-end technologies selectively chosen so as not to cannibalize high-end sales. And low feeds off the mid.

Any K200D replacement will have video. Period. Why? Its competitors do and it is the "in" thing. It will require the same audio options. This is not something you cripple without losing credibility of design.

Video might determine the battery issue.

With the mid-level, you're going to see a mirror, not a prism. It's always been a defining line between mid- and high-end.

The K-M has no WR. The K200D does.
The K-M has no top LCD. The K200D does.

Both of these features on the Pentax model are better than competing brands.

MP's are a smaller part of the matrix now. So which sensor is used is beside the point (bit mid-level will have one stop less ISO more than likely).

A few controls moved from Menu to dedicated would be ideal.

Also, the focussing would need to be updated, etc. But all that will come about once the K-7 comes down in price and the K20 starts to look long in the tooth.
07-22-2009, 09:12 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by vk4akp Quote
Well I'm in the market to buy now!.

Anyhow, please Pentax. Make another great camera in the tradition of the K200D in a similar price and market bracket.
But please don't create another dog like the K-M.
Aw, c'mon, don't knock the lovely K-m! Otherwise I'd have to point out what a slow kludge the K200D is, in comparison!
07-23-2009, 03:59 AM   #59
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K200D replacement

I will buy the next Pentax camera that has AA's and AF adjustment, I don't care what sensor they put in it (assuming it's decent!), 8-12 MP would be excellent.

If, in addition, it has Pentaprism + a level indicator, I'll buy it next weekend, no matter what the wife says.

It could very well be that video and AA's are incompatible, but read about the new Ni-Zn batteries like the Quantaray Super Z. Shelf life is at least comparable to Eneloop-type batteries, and they deliver higher voltage.

If that's not feasible, wouldn't it be a good idea to use AAA's instead of AA's ? Take 6 of them (instead of 4 AA's) and they deliver a higher voltage. Capacity will suffer, but 6x1000 mAh is not THAT much less than 4x2000 mAh. And give it a few years time... .

(Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not good in electricity.)
07-23-2009, 04:57 AM   #60
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I would like to see something continuing the idea of the K200D - a very affordable DSLR thatīs built around ease of use & taking great still photos rather than gimmicks that appeal to people who will buy a DSLR & leave it on auto for all eternity. Put the R&D money into the correct things. Therefore:

Yes:

good built quality, weather resistance, faster AF, good VF (although PM rather than PP, it is a budget model), AAs, top LCD (essential), improved SR, improved DR increase function, faster FPS, perhaps a second control wheel or more direct buttons

No:

Live view, articulated screen, more than 12MP, video
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