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05-12-2007, 03:14 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by Falcons Quote
I want to buy a Pentax flag, hat and scarf and boo and hiss at Hoya & Sparx. (Whilst consuming lots of beer and chips) I can throw the chips at the canon adds during the intervals. GO TEAM PENTAX!!!
Anyway, is there a Pentax branded merchandise ? I'd love to support and show my support with nice T-Shirt or something simillar.

05-12-2007, 03:44 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by Falcons Quote
The 645D is alive and well - not that I will probably ever be able to afford one (till the kids grow up anyway). I never doubted it for a minute - that original press article was very well crafted in its ambiguity re medium format - it never stated digital it just left that up to the "Glass is half empty people" and canikions with an agenda and/or penchant for gloating.

Cameras are absolutely amazing - they are like choosing a football team to support. I have never once had any one ask me what TV brand I use and I have never had to defend my choice of toaster, yet!

I hope they televise the Pentax, Sparx, Hoya meetings - I want to buy a Pentax flag, hat and scarf and boo and hiss at Hoya & Sparx. (Whilst consuming lots of beer and chips) I can throw the chips at the canon adds during the intervals.

GO TEAM PENTAX!!!
LOL! No whats the abbreviation for roll around on the floor and belly laugh! (RAFBL?) thats the best forum post I've seen in a long time, many thanks
05-12-2007, 03:57 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by feronovak Quote
Anyway, is there a Pentax branded merchandise ? I'd love to support and show my support with nice T-Shirt or something simillar.
Pentax Imaging - Home (Purchase our products -> shop online -> promotional items) has baseball caps atleast, but I don't know if they ship abroad.
05-12-2007, 06:00 AM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
volosong: I think you should edit the subject title.

645D IS NOT DEAD

JohnCPentax from Pentax USA has posted in dpreview and has made it clear that the official position of 645D has not changed, it is still under development.
Pentax needs to make a press release ASAP to stop all the rumor ...... From what I have read the 645D is NOT dead and Pentax is trying very hard to knock out the take over bid and become a high quality DSLR company for the beginer to semi pro shooter.

The more I read about what is happening the better I feel about how Pentax is handling this whole deal. By June it will be over and we will know, so I'll just hang on and see !!!!


wll

05-12-2007, 07:16 AM   #65
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I worked for IBM back then

QuoteOriginally posted by Ivan Glisin Quote
It seems to be the same direction Louis Gerstner took with IBM after becoming CEO in 1993. My summary: (1) focus on things IBM does well and reduce number of research projects, products and services for marginal markets or generating marginal revenue; (2) change corporate culture, public image, marketing and consolidate business practices across all divisions; and (3) sell all unnecessary assets, including expensive to own/maintain corporate buildings and acquire assets necessary to complete the new and consolidated IBM.

All predictions were that the strategy won't work and IBM is going to die. Wall Street Journal was sending IBM to the graveyard while competitors were rubbing their hands, all despite Gerster's efforts.

But it did work. IBM had to come to a realization that making fancy high-tech toys for a limited market (or no market at all!) can't help them survive, no matter how much engineers may have loved their creations. I believe Pentax is getting exactly there as well and I don't see any negative side with this news: they'll have better focus and more money necessary to offer new and better K-mount DSLRs and DA lenses -- something that SELLS for real money on the real market.

(645D development and fine corporate buildings are nice to have, but they are currently only expenses, nothing more.)
I dont think there are any parallels at all. IBM was not some niche player in a couple of markets with minority market share. It was the dominant market force across several markets but was too big, innefficient and too riddled with incompetence and debt to change with the times and exploit all of those markets cost effectively. Ironically, it could have been very different. IBM had all the right technologies, products and skills to continue to dominate but a no-firing policy, internal politics and internal competition left them frozen to the spot. By the time of Gerstner's seal cull it was too rotten to rescue and had to be dismantled and turned into yet-another-services organisation. But its a sad shadow of what it was.

Pentax is a niche player in a market where there are many opportunities to expand. It has the technical skills and production capacity and can move very quickly if it needs to, it just needs to get its marketing and sales head on the right way round. What it does not want to do is just to stop making cameras - theres money to be made out there. What it needs to do is to continue to make cameras that sell, and then get them to customers.

Thats the easy bit, really. Look now boring and stagnant Nikon and Canon are becoming. Anyone who cant compete with them is seriously lacking in imagination, and with Oly stuck on 4/3 sensors, I see the only serious blocker to Pentax's ambitions as coming from Sony. It all depends how many Minolta engineers they managed to retain.
05-12-2007, 07:25 PM   #66
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Hmm... I wonder if some 645 users will panic and sell their gear...

<runs off to ebay>

I just bought a 645N because I've always wanted to get into medium format. The future availability of the 645D was a factor in the decision, but I seriously doubted I'd even be able to afford one. We don't even have an official announcement about its demise, and some are already getting all doom and gloom.
05-12-2007, 08:07 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by HawaiianOnline Quote
Hmm... I wonder if some 645 users will panic and sell their gear...

<runs off to ebay>

I just bought a 645N because I've always wanted to get into medium format. The future availability of the 645D was a factor in the decision, but I seriously doubted I'd even be able to afford one. We don't even have an official announcement about its demise, and some are already getting all doom and gloom.
Hehe

I am waiting for that to happen too - watching the ebay prices closely!

It is wicked that sometimes misinformed news could add some advantages to my lens hunting!

The world is a better place now.

I only have 2 645 lenses so far...
05-12-2007, 08:13 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by wll Quote
Pentax needs to make a press release ASAP to stop all the rumor ......
There is a negative fringe who will just find something else to misenterprite then..

Unfortuantely it seems to be a passtime of some Pentax users, whenever anything happens its immediately given as proof of Pentax's immenant demise..

05-12-2007, 08:47 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by *isteve Quote
I dont think there are any parallels at all.
On a corporate level certainly no.

But I was not trying to compare corporations. What I was trying to say was simply this: Pentax is taking certain steps IBM took as well (reducing product portfolio and eliminating unnecessary resources and assets) and it does not necessarily mean that the end of the company is imminent. That was the parallel.

What actually reminded me of IBM was market positioning of 645D compared to OS/2 Warp: in my opinion both are/were matter of corporate pride and having or not having 645D (or IBM OS/2 Warp back then) really would not matter too much in terms of total market share. Killing K10D would have been a disaster, but killing 645D would not do any real harm to Pentax IMO.
05-13-2007, 05:01 AM   #70
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And it now seems the H/O isn't even for sale?? don't you just love these rumours...

Bloomberg.com: Japan
05-13-2007, 09:17 AM   #71
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One thing in common

QuoteOriginally posted by Ivan Glisin Quote
On a corporate level certainly no.

But I was not trying to compare corporations. What I was trying to say was simply this: Pentax is taking certain steps IBM took as well (reducing product portfolio and eliminating unnecessary resources and assets) and it does not necessarily mean that the end of the company is imminent. That was the parallel.

What actually reminded me of IBM was market positioning of 645D compared to OS/2 Warp: in my opinion both are/were matter of corporate pride and having or not having 645D (or IBM OS/2 Warp back then) really would not matter too much in terms of total market share. Killing K10D would have been a disaster, but killing 645D would not do any real harm to Pentax IMO.
Unfortunately IBM had to sell some of its crown jewels in the process and nearly gave up on the large processor market just before it staged a recovery (I remember the panic when they had to hire back several thousand engineers on contract who they had just let go in Kingston and Poughkeepsie). To me the 645D looks more like the Mainframe than OS/2 warp in the sense that it was their flagship low volume high margin product with a long history and they simply lost their nerve when in fact there was still a potential market.

I was personally involved in the development of Warp which was actually a far superior product technically, woefully let down by lack of marketing and third party support - complete lack of management vision and typical IBM arrogance. It was the last chance the world had to avert the dominance and stagnation of the "microsoft years" and it failed because no-one primed the market. Had it succeeded it would have been on every desktop and laptop in the world - hardly a 645D which will never sell in numbers.

I will give you this though - I have wondered about Pentax's management strategy over the last few years with the DS and DL also-rans and no *istD upgrade, not to mention an abortive movie/camera hybrid and some lacklustre compacts not to mention an almost total lack of marketing, non-existant distribution etc. etc. Smacks of stagnation and indecision by the management team under Urano and does remind me of IBM in the later days of Akers management. No wonder Urano wanted to bail.

The K10D proves they have the goods, and the 645D would give them much needed credibility in a market where the average store assistant has never heard of them. Marketing and distribution need sorting out too - but there is a market to go for out there all they need to do is grab it. I dont know the economics of it - I just suspect the 645D is diverting resources away from potentially more profitable lines, but it may also help to boost the whole brand image. So I dont know. If its close to production they may be better off just going for it...
05-13-2007, 10:01 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by *isteve Quote

I was personally involved in the development of Warp which was actually a far superior product technically, woefully let down by lack of marketing and third party support - complete lack of management vision and typical IBM arrogance. It was the last chance the world had to avert the dominance and stagnation of the "microsoft years" and it failed because no-one primed the market. Had it succeeded it would have been on every desktop and laptop in the world ...
OS2 Warp (actually was the first iteration just OS2?), the OS I wanted to use for my first computer. No 3rd party drivers ect took me to Win95. ANY OS could have clobbered that one .....History is sad and funny all at the same time.
As to your other comments re: Pentax, I've been thinking somewhat along the same lines. Some "decisions" from Pentax seem to be earmarked more to "pump" the value then to create a product. Oddly enough they worked together to be more successful than maybe Urano expected. The flash failures would probably not been tolerated by the "old" Pentax but was fully accepted by the new. Hard to explain what exacty I mean by all this. More a gut feeling that part of the success was not expected and was not even considered since it was not "in the true plan" so to speak..... Hmmm, I have to think about this a bit more. Anyway Urano kind of outsmarted himself I guess.
05-13-2007, 02:48 PM   #73
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Clearly a way to bump prices. The plans to sell their HQ means everyone runs out and buys pentax stock because when pentax sells the HQ, their company gets a ton of money, and shares go up, making shareholders richer.

In the mean time, masses buying shares of pentax puts money in the companies pocket.

I'm not too worried about Pentax disappearing. I don't think that will happen for a while if at all. What I am worried about though is if the do not release a pro level camera (at the very least something above the K10D) they will never get the following that they want.

I do have a feeling that Pentax is going to develope more entry level cameras and try to make the single cheapest DSLR possable so they can run that market out. But like I mentioned before, everyone knows (or quickly learns) that buying a DSLR is buying into a system, a systemw here Pentax only has a few steps compared to Nikon, Canon, and soon (with the release of their pro level DSLR later this year) Sony.

They need to pick where they want to go. While the 645D is a fantasy for many, the market is very small. Pentax may not have the money at this time to push development further on such a small niche in the market. Hopefully the 645D gets shelved and not trashed though.
05-13-2007, 06:05 PM   #74
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Even if the 645D really does get axed, and Pentax goes down for he count. How long will it be before someone decides to buy the camera division's technologies. I haven't heard anything about Canon's own MF project for a while. They'd have to develop a whole new set of lenses in any case since I don't think that their 35mm lenses will work with any MF sized sensor. The 645D might not see the light of day as a Pentax product, but will some other company buy the camera division simply to get access to its secrets and its lens base?
05-13-2007, 07:49 PM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
OS2 Warp (actually was the first iteration just OS2?), the OS I wanted to use for my first computer.
sorry for the OT..

So did I, I actually used OS/2 warp on my desktop, loved it. But couldn't on my IBM thinkpad. IBM had MS Windows video drivers for my IBM laptop but IBM did not have any for their own OS.. So I guess thats a 1st party lack of drivers problem for me..
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