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08-04-2009, 10:43 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by stanleyk Quote
Blue on a more important subject, I got:

Miami 23
FSU 17
I have no vested interest in either school. My degrees are from Arkansas, Tennessee, and North Alabama. I pull for those three and who ever is playing UF, Aladambama and Valdosta State. However, I think your assessment may be correct for the FSU-Miami game. Bobby has had a hard time keeping his crew out of jail etc the past 6 or 8 months.

08-04-2009, 11:10 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
Return it for "no reason"? Again, what part of "I didn't like the ergonomics" do you not understand? ......................
nostatic, what was it that didn't feel right? I am asking because I have fairly large hands and the K20D feels pretty good. The only issue I have has nothing to do with the camera but comes from slightly reduced dexterity in my fingers due to some nerve damage as a kid. Was it the smaller size of the camera that didn't feel right or was it placement of controls? The shutter release appears to be angled forward some on the K-7which for me would be good, but if the camera feels noticeably smaller then that might offset any benefit.
08-04-2009, 11:23 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by noblepa Quote
He also told me that they have a Pentax rep, who visits them regularly.
FWIW this rep is probably Ken who was at our Minneapolis K7 road tour stop. He is an account manager based out of Chicago and he told me that National Camera here in the TC has placed orders for K7s and just received their latest order of K20Ds. So no, Amazon is not sole the US distributor for Pentax. If you don't believe me here is what John Carlson said in the other thread:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/693700-post33.html
08-04-2009, 11:37 AM   #49
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Nostatic, I'm having a "debate" with a member on the UK Pentax forum who has taken exception with my article criticising the arbitrary interface changes and ergonomics of the K-7. His main points seem to be that:

1. I cannot criticize a camera I do not have. Even though it would cost me 1300 euros to get one only to find out that, yes, the buttons have been moved to just where all the photos say they are.

2. I am the only person in the world who has a problem with the ergonomics. I told him other users have gone so far as to return their K-7. Wonder if I should point him here?

08-04-2009, 11:42 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by MrApollinax Quote
FWIW this rep is probably Ken who was at our Minneapolis K7 road tour stop. He is an account manager based out of Chicago and he told me that National Camera here in the TC has placed orders for K7s and just received their latest order of K20Ds. So no, Amazon is not sole the US distributor for Pentax. If you don't believe me here is what John Carlson said in the other thread:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/693700-post33.html

I believe that he did say the rep's name was Ken. There was no mention of where he was from. I was surprised to find that there was any rep at all. All the stories on this and other forums, had it that Pentax had eliminated ALL their regional reps during the re-structuring a year or two ago.

As far as I know, Amazon is not a distributor at all, let alone the sole US distributor. Usually, the term distributor, in this context, refers to a business that buys large quantities of product from the manufacturer/importer and re-sells it in smaller batches to retailers, who, in turn, sell it to the end users.

A retailer is a business that sells products, usually one at a time, to the end user of that product.

By this definition, Amazon, is simply a large retailer. It wouldn't surprise me at all, if Amazon was Pentax' largest retailer.

Further confusing the issue is that Amazon provides a service to other retailers which allows those retailers to reach Amazon's worldwide customer base. Notice that, often, if you buy a product, even books, Amazon's original product line, the product is actually shipped from a conventional retailer. B & H, Adorama, 47th St. Photo and many others sell this way.
08-04-2009, 11:43 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by MrApollinax Quote
FWIW this rep is probably Ken who was at our Minneapolis K7 road tour stop. He is an account manager based out of Chicago and he told me that National Camera here in the TC has placed orders for K7s and just received their latest order of K20Ds. So no, Amazon is not sole the US distributor for Pentax. If you don't believe me here is what John Carlson said in the other thread:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/693700-post33.html
Did you mean to imply they ARE a distributor for Pentax, just not the ONLY, as in sole, distributor?

BTW, I followed up in that thread for a clarification on JCPentax's use of quotes around the word distributor. This is a case where accuracy is significant, qualifications on the use and context of a word does indeed mean things. Putting the word distributor in quotes implies other than a standard meaning. So I asked to confirm what was intended by the use.
08-04-2009, 11:43 AM   #52
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Excellent info!!! Now I'll drill down on my source

Excellent info!!! Now I'll drill down on my source & find out why they are now getting all their pentax goods direct from Amazon.com for resale and they have no pentax rep either. Seems to me they are in a pentax twilight zone... ???


>>>>"

Originally Posted by Blue
Actually, you did answer the question just now. In the past this question has been largely ignored. Would my old Honeywell Strobonar be considered a 3rd party flash? Also, is there anything to the rumor that Amazon.com is the U.S. distributor for Pentax?
Absolutely not. They sell our product, and do a very fine job of that, but that is the extent of "distribution".

<<<<<


OK, I'm satisfied, pentax says amazon does not distribute pentax gear for resale to dealers. I look foward to presenting this firsthand pentax corporation info to my source for a reply. Thanks !!!

Oh, & any word on defective K-7 sensors ??? Well if that matters to anyone, I'm curious what the official response is... or if there has been an acknowledgement or official link discussing the well known K-7 sensor defect, "Vertical Green Line Syndrome" ???



QuoteOriginally posted by MrApollinax Quote
FWIW this rep is probably Ken who was at our Minneapolis K7 road tour stop. He is an account manager based out of Chicago and he told me that National Camera here in the TC has placed orders for K7s and just received their latest order of K20Ds. So no, Amazon is not sole the US distributor for Pentax. If you don't believe me here is what John Carlson said in the other thread:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/693700-post33.html

Last edited by Samsungian; 08-04-2009 at 12:03 PM.
08-04-2009, 12:00 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by brecklundin Quote
Did you mean to imply they ARE a distributor for Pentax, just not the ONLY, as in sole, distributor?

BTW, I followed up in that thread for a clarification on JCPentax's use of quotes around the word distributor. This is a case where accuracy is significant, qualifications on the use and context of a word does indeed mean things. Putting the word distributor in quotes implies other than a standard meaning. So I asked to confirm what was intended by the use.

Sorry to add to the confusion. Amazon is an online retailer. I would probably go on to say that Amazon is probably one of Pentax USA's largest accounts. I have never once considered them to be a distributor. It seems to me that the new online retail business model confuses people on what a distributor actually does which is sell to retailers not end customers.

08-04-2009, 12:27 PM   #54
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thanks!! i figured that is what ya meant but ya know how some will read into things...

I, for one, was happy that JCP responded in the other thread even if he put the word in quotes.

Like I mentioned earlier I was repeating, but still with the qualifier that I was indeed repeating what I had been told here somewhere (I dunna remember... )...

I still wonder if Pentax might be using the really sweet ability of using Amazon as your shipping/order fulfillment department. I am not sure what advantage it would be for a larger company like Pentax but for small to medium companies it is a really nice and slick deal and way to grow a business. Just order your inventory, have it shipped to the Amazon regional order fulfillment center you want to use and start selling wherever you normally see from...it will even ship with your boxes and invoices. I wonder if that is where the whole thing might have begun...but hey, this is the web, who knows why someone might have planted that seed to begin with...someone who might have been bored, tipsy, living in Mom's basement and in your skid-marked Underoos could be motivation enough I suppose. hehehe
08-04-2009, 01:42 PM   #55
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<Amazon.com

08-04-2009, 01:54 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by brecklundin Quote
I still wonder if Pentax might be using the really sweet ability of using Amazon as your shipping/order fulfillment department. I am not sure what advantage it would be for a larger company like Pentax but for small to medium companies it is a really nice and slick deal and way to grow a business. Just order your inventory, have it shipped to the Amazon regional order fulfillment center you want to use and start selling wherever you normally see from...it will even ship with your boxes and invoices. I wonder if that is where the whole thing might have begun...but hey, this is the web, who knows why someone might have planted that seed to begin with...someone who might have been bored, tipsy, living in Mom's basement and in your skid-marked Underoos could be motivation enough I suppose. hehehe

I had a nice long post and it seems to have disappeared... Here we go again, two points:

1. Amazon does allow use of it's front end ordering system to smaller retailers. Abe's Of Maine, J&R and Adorama all have one such "store front." The big plus is that you can make your inventory search-able through Amazon which arguably has the largest online customer base. So in addition to Amazon's stock and price you will find other retailers who use the system as well allowing you to compare prices+s&h costs from multiple online sources.

2. Companies like Pentax just do not have enough staff to deal with the overhead and costs of selling directly to end customers on a large scale. They just aren't setup for it. So instead they sell through different channels. Amazon is one such retail channel. So is Best Buy, Walmart etc. A company would sell large quantities of product to one of these retailers directly and letting those retailers deal with the short term returns/issues. Microsoft with Xbox 360s and Best Buy is a great example of this. Customers can return their 360 to Best Buy and get a new unit for a replacement if the failure happens within the return policy or the extended warranty terms. Best Buy then sends the unit to MS for repair/return/credit/replacement. For the smaller "mom & pop" stores that cannot afford to stock large amounts of product they go to a distributor who would be able to sell them smaller quantities of product. The drawback to that is you will be limited to the amount of stock the distributor has on site unless you are willing to pay for expedited shipping direct from the vendor.

So yeah... there you go
08-04-2009, 03:54 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
nostatic, what was it that didn't feel right? I am asking because I have fairly large hands and the K20D feels pretty good. The only issue I have has nothing to do with the camera but comes from slightly reduced dexterity in my fingers due to some nerve damage as a kid. Was it the smaller size of the camera that didn't feel right or was it placement of controls? The shutter release appears to be angled forward some on the K-7which for me would be good, but if the camera feels noticeably smaller then that might offset any benefit.
For me it was a combination of things. I like how the K7 is deeper in the fingertip region and has a deeper indentation between middle and ring finger. What I didn't like was the loss of vertical space pretty much forcing my pinky off the grip. In addition, I found operating a zoom to be a little tight, and I didn't like losing the left hand bit of side for balance. I found that for me the 31ltd was a little too long/heavy for the body (given less grip space) and the 50-135* I didn't care for at all on the camera.

In addition, I find that it exposes hotter than the K20d, and the FA ltd lenses yielded some less-than-stellar results. The 77ltd is my favorite lens and is "magic" on the K20d. On the K7 I found the results mixed at best. But the K7 exposes the DA ltds damn near perfect.

The shutter release was fine, and the shutter sound is awesome. The rest of the controls on the back are a little tight for my big thumbs, and I prefer the 4-way wheel to the 4 individual buttons.

All person preferences, and depending on your hand size and how you handle the camera. I have a rather particular use/style so it either works or it doesn't with me. I think the K7 with any of the DA ltd lenses would work find for me as they are light and will balance well with the smaller body. FA ltds aren't idea, but totally rock on the K20d.

My opinion, take it with a salt lick.

Last edited by nostatic; 08-04-2009 at 04:00 PM.
08-04-2009, 03:59 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
Nostatic, I'm having a "debate" with a member on the UK Pentax forum who has taken exception with my article criticising the arbitrary interface changes and ergonomics of the K-7. His main points seem to be that:

1. I cannot criticize a camera I do not have. Even though it would cost me 1300 euros to get one only to find out that, yes, the buttons have been moved to just where all the photos say they are.

2. I am the only person in the world who has a problem with the ergonomics. I told him other users have gone so far as to return their K-7. Wonder if I should point him here?
Well, first course of action could always be to just ignore said member. The interwebs is full of people that insist on being "right" at any cost. Interface is highly personal and I don't think there is a "right" or "wrong" for the general case except in extremes. There is a right/wrong for each individual. I try to remember that and couch my opinions on these topics with disclaimers to that effect. I do think it is useful for people to share their personal experiences (especially "real" use, not 5 minutes of messing around with it) so that people have some perspective.

There certainly are others who aren't crazy about the ergos on the K7. We appear to be in the minority, but there are a few. The reality is there is no way you can please everyone. I think Pentax made exactly the right decision - they are filling a niche rather well and going smaller than the K20d makes perfect sense. And some are happily using any/all glass on it with great results. For me though, I only like the DA ltds on it, and since I have ended up shooting mostly with my FAs, the K20d stays.
08-04-2009, 04:01 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
<Amazon.com
gee, ya think?

Last edited by nostatic; 08-04-2009 at 05:51 PM.
08-05-2009, 08:35 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote

There certainly are others who aren't crazy about the ergos on the K7. We appear to be in the minority, but there are a few. The reality is there is no way you can please everyone.
Yes there is! Interchangeable grip options!

If the basic camera's too big, it's too big, but if it's too small in some dimension, it's possible to add more. It'd be cool if Pentax took another cue from the LX and made facility to customize the grip, add a little to the bottom for those who don't like their pinkie being curled under the camera, for instance.

QuoteQuote:
I think Pentax made exactly the right decision - they are filling a niche rather well and going smaller than the K20d makes perfect sense. And some are happily using any/all glass on it with great results. For me though, I only like the DA ltds on it, and since I have ended up shooting mostly with my FAs, the K20d stays.
It would be hard for them to beat the k20d in terms of fitting my hands, certainly. (If they could have made the grip just a hair less tall, that'd fit perfectly, too.) I was kind of hoping they'd use that shape for a real pro model, or at least the next upgrade. I've only seen pictures of the K-7 at this point, but it'd probably be OK. While smaller, it has a fatter grip, which is nice enough for my long fingers.
, and the battery grip looks like they made it just right. They did some other things that would seem to address my few quibbles: af button on the grip, the AE-L moved somewhere less out in left field, etc. (I'd use that a lot more if I could have it right near my thumb in position for a good secure hold, and set it to not be on all the time)

But, I'm pretty easy to make mostly-happy, it's that last five or ten percent...
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