Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
08-06-2009, 11:16 AM   #76
Veteran Member




Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Minnesota
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,530
Warranties are really in place for unexpected gross product failures. Companies really expect their products to last beyond the warranty period. However in order to keep costs and operations in line you must draw a line in terms of product support. MTBF for the components on the camera body is probably far and beyond the basic warranty and 3 year extended warranty.

08-06-2009, 11:41 AM   #77
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jun 2009
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,679
right...but one thing I am confused on here is there a real 3-yr extended warranty but rather a 2-yr warranty extension to the original one year warranty?

That bit of marketing sleight of hand has always bugged me...more of a pet peeve as they almost all do it. Though I bought my mom a pretty nice Samsung LCD TV at Walmart of all places (only place in town to by things...sigh) and the extended warranty (TV is her only form of entertainment so an on-site extended warranty is important) was sold as an added number of years beyond the mfg warranty. Only found that out when I had to get warranty service for the TV before the mfg 1-yr was over....got it done about a week before the end of the year....whew!!
08-06-2009, 12:49 PM   #78
Veteran Member




Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Minnesota
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,530
The extended warranty that I have covers 3 years from date-of-purchase. I need to look at the regular factory warranty vs. the extended warranty but I think the extended warranty covers one or two things not in the factory warranty.
08-06-2009, 02:17 PM   #79
Veteran Member
rparmar's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,783
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Well, English is not my first language - so I might be confused regarding the precise meaning of some words
No, you are fine. Your English is likely better than many native speakers.

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
But, I don't see a problem with the K-7 not offering something truly new, while still being a "new concept".
I do have a problem with this, for one because it is a misuse of language. And for another because although an improved K20D is quite laudable, we were explicitly told we were not getting a K20D replacement. Harsh or not, that is in fact a lie.

(Though the fact that marketing departments might lie is hardly a revelation!)

This fact bothers me but obviously doesn't bother others. We must agree to disagree. In the meantime I am still waiting for a new concept camera, one that will demonstrate the soul of photography not the power of marketing. I think Pentax is a company who can deliver this, even though Olympus seem to be the real ground-breaking firm at the moment.

08-06-2009, 05:21 PM   #80
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 10,677
Thanks.

Well, probably that's the reason it doesn't bother me: because it comes indeed from a marketing department So, I'm not putting much weight into those words, I just see a justified attempt to differentiate between models, and probably the start of a new camera line. So, can we leave it at 'bad wording', instead of 'lie'?

I'm not sure about what will demonstrate the soul of photography. The camera you describe looks to me as another entry level, a K-m successor; so it must be cheap, but still have enough features; nothing ground-breaking either.
In the same time, a "Limited"-like camera (top quality build/mechanics, a minimal set of features) would be expensive, and it will "fail" in every review as being under-featured. I'd like the concept, but in the end I'd probably chose something more like the K-7.
08-06-2009, 05:52 PM   #81
Veteran Member
nostatic's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: socal
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,576
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
In the same time, a "Limited"-like camera (top quality build/mechanics, a minimal set of features) would be expensive, and it will "fail" in every review as being under-featured. I'd like the concept, but in the end I'd probably chose something more like the K-7.
Probably, but look at the EP1. A "different" combination of style and substance can make a dent in the marketplace. It is all about differentiation.
08-06-2009, 07:48 PM   #82
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 1,337
E-P1 is so last month: Now theres GF1 from Panasonic

The GetDPI Workshop Forums - View Single Post - New M43 GF1 - Possibly

No doubt the new wave of micro 4/3 cameras are stealing sales... from everyone


QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
Probably, but look at the EP1. A "different" combination of style and substance can make a dent in the marketplace. It is all about differentiation.
08-06-2009, 08:08 PM   #83
Veteran Member
nostatic's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: socal
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,576
QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
The GetDPI Workshop Forums - View Single Post - New M43 GF1 - Possibly

No doubt the new wave of micro 4/3 cameras are stealing sales... from everyone
True, but I shot back to back today with K20d and EP1. They have a different look and in fact complement each other.













08-06-2009, 09:45 PM   #84
Veteran Member
rparmar's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,783
QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
Probably, but look at the EP1. A "different" combination of style and substance can make a dent in the marketplace. It is all about differentiation.
Exactly!

Pentax can differentiate with a minimal camera that simply takes pictures very very well. And which is more compact and portable than any of their previous cameras. And which is designed to be used in the dark. For a decade. By people who love photography. We don't need to give up features that are mostly just firmware programmes -- those can stay. But we might need to give up weather sealing and top LCD for size. Plus a few buttons.

In return we get simplicity. One dial per feature. No modes. Controls you can learn with muscle memory and then naturalize completely. That is why Leica rangefinders is/was good. It was nothing to do with superior features and all to do with standardisation, reliability and simplicity. (Though they took this too far with their digital model... epic fail.)

It's not a new concept at all, it's an old one that's been forgotten. Remember when a camera was a camera? And not some crappy computer? Think big! Think outside the box! We can be heroes!

I keep meaning to write the article on the "new concept" camera but others have sort of done it already. Read The Time Has Come for a New DSLR Paradigm and Why There Will Never Be a Simple DSLR.

I mentioned before about fewer buttons. But how about a button we can programme ourselves? That's leveraging the best of the old (fewer thingies to twiddle) and the new (software control over everything). How about a customisable menu? So we can make it simpler -- even though everyone's simple is a different simple.

I have no interest in paying 1300 euros for a camera that will be obsolete the next time the marketing department gets a twitch in their pants. But I'll pay that much for a more basic camera built around sophisticated ideas. One that will keep me in the Pentax fold, buying accessories and lenses and proselytizing. All of which is more important than a body sale here and there.

OK, so most people will hate it. The truth is, most people are idiots. It's the entire basis of capitalism, that statement. What did Barnum say? What did Ford say? Same thing. In fact, they were banking on it -- literally. But times have changed and now a soft word in the right ear (or a rave on the right blog) and all the world thinks you're the bee's knees. (Or is that "bees' knees"? I never could figure our collective possessives that had no grounding in reality.)

Pentax, do this because you are a company for photographers. Prove you care. You can still make your do-everything-but-make-the-martinis camera. But do this one thing to put the shine back on the name that practically invented everything we care about in photography.

That's my rant for the week.
08-07-2009, 12:55 AM   #85
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 10,677
QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
Probably, but look at the EP1. A "different" combination of style and substance can make a dent in the marketplace. It is all about differentiation.
I was sure we'll get to the EVIL (in this case NVIL - No Viewfinder, Interchangeable Lens) cameras
I don't like them. I would say, I hate them. I hate looking at a screen (I'm doing this all the day), so I want an optical viewfinder. Optical viewfinder means SLR.

In fact, I can't say I disagree with you (except regarding some small details ). It would be nice if Pentax could differentiate them even further, from the competition; small&rugged is nice, maybe something that would appeal even more to those who likes a classical design? Hey, I can dream! (at a "digital ME Super" - basic but complete interface, good build quality, big viewfinder - a joy to use)
But I don't think they can do it. I'm not even sure I'd pay the price for such a camera.
08-07-2009, 08:01 AM   #86
Veteran Member
nostatic's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: socal
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,576
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I was sure we'll get to the EVIL (in this case NVIL - No Viewfinder, Interchangeable Lens) cameras
I don't like them. I would say, I hate them. I hate looking at a screen (I'm doing this all the day), so I want an optical viewfinder. Optical viewfinder means SLR.

In fact, I can't say I disagree with you (except regarding some small details ). It would be nice if Pentax could differentiate them even further, from the competition; small&rugged is nice, maybe something that would appeal even more to those who likes a classical design? Hey, I can dream! (at a "digital ME Super" - basic but complete interface, good build quality, big viewfinder - a joy to use)
But I don't think they can do it. I'm not even sure I'd pay the price for such a camera.
Please note that I didn't say that Pentax should necessarily build an EVIL camera. I just think that they need to differentiate themselves. And the K7 is a move in that direction - small, tough, weather-resistant. There isn't an equivalent Canikon. They seem to have picked that route so now they need to exploit it. Build a weather resistant Km. Weatherproof more lenses. Targeted marketing and strategic partnerships.

I don't know if "retro" will work for Pentax. It would be interesting and different, but are there enough buyers? I think a lot of people here won't pay top dollar for a retro camera. Many here are looking for a bargain at all costs. Going retro usually isn't cheap...
08-07-2009, 08:35 AM   #87
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 10,677
Yes, I understood that It's just a possibility - but not one that I would like (and btw I think EVIL will become mainstream quite fast).
I agree 100% with your last message.
08-07-2009, 12:17 PM   #88
Veteran Member
rparmar's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,783
I expanded my rant above into an article, suitably entitled Rant For The Abolition Of Feature-itis In Digital Cameras. This might make my position a little clearer.

But only a little.
08-07-2009, 12:56 PM   #89
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 10,677
You see the K-7 as an "incremental upgrade". Well, it's far from it. Too many newly developed components
I understand what you're asking them to make. But, I don't think it would be commercially viable; they aren't Leica. An expensive (=low volume), very basic camera; same image quality. I like the concept, but I'm quite sure I wouldn't buy the camera.
And btw, programmable buttons will add on, not decrease the complexity
08-07-2009, 01:54 PM   #90
Veteran Member
rparmar's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,783
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
An expensive (=low volume), very basic camera; same image quality. I like the concept, but I'm quite sure I wouldn't buy the camera.
I am not asking for the camera to be "very basic". In fact I explicitly say that there's no reason not to retained the same operational features of, say, the K-7. What I am asking for is a smaller form factor with a rethink in the physical user interface. Not as a replacement to the current body, just as an alternative.

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
And btw, programmable buttons will add on, not decrease the complexity
I do not see how. Even my Olympus digital recorder has a programmable button. It's a piece of cake to write the firmware since there are no new features, just a reassignment of controls to features. And it's trivial to set up, as easy as any other option on the menu.

BTW, my thoughts are based on well researched and documented work, as summarised in Ten Interface Design Principles. Nothing radical here, just old news manufacturers prefer to ignore.

Although I grant you that there may be economic disincentives to producing such a camera, there is also a strong potential win for breaking the mold and producing a body with no peer.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
pentax news, pentax rumors
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FA Ltd will be discontinued and FF never comes henryjing Pentax News and Rumors 22 10-18-2010 12:53 PM
K20D Discontinued? Sharkonwheels Pentax DSLR Discussion 7 03-02-2010 08:10 AM
Why DA 18-250mm discontinued? cbaytan Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 18 10-10-2009 02:38 PM
Has the K20D been discontinued? jeryst Pentax DSLR Discussion 4 09-28-2009 10:09 AM
FA 35 discontinued? Albert Siegel Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 18 09-16-2008 01:20 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:26 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top