[Samsungian]

NoStatic, You you've already chit~chatted about your desire to buy another K-7 sometime later.

Are you planning on some hand surgery for a better fit , better ergos? Seems to me from what you've written about Adoramas K-7 new in the box loaner they sent you thinking that you were buying it, that you were happy with that K-7. I get this concept from you saying you'll buy K-7 again later. You have said you plan to buy K-7 later, right, or did I miss read you? Whats going to be different with the next K-7 you order up since the one you returned to adorama for refund worked fine, right?

Return it for "no reason"? Again, what part of "I didn't like the ergonomics" do you not understand? Or are you just trying to be a jackass on purpose? If so you're doing a bang-up job.

So you'll buy a camera from B&H with 199 shots but completely avoid Adorama based on my "abuse" of their return policy? Do you know for a fact that Adorama turns around and sells the unit for new? No, you don't. Just like the other "facts" you don't know.

Your moral high horse is pretty and you look fine upon that noble steed. Maybe go ride to the Canikon forums so you can flash your Ethics Police badge there. They'll love it! As for me I'll take the low road outta here...

[nostatic]

Yes, I'm going to have hand surgery.

I may or may not buy a K7 at a later date. If I do, I will only use it with DA ltd primes as I found the ergos to not be viable with larger/heavier lenses. I originally considered it as a K20d replacement. My time with the camera proved that *for me* it is not ergonomically viable to replace my K20d.

Does that make sense or should I type more s l o w l y ?

For whatever reason you really have turned into a pitbull on this whole "abuse of return" policy and chosen to single me out. I suppose everyone needs a hobby. I bought in good faith and returned according to the rules. If you want to announce to the world your distaste for such behavior I guess you're free to do so. But I did not buy for a gig then return (as I've seen many people do at Guitar Center) or buy just to chit-chat. I viewed it as a K20d replacement. For me, it is not. And the *only* way I could find that out was by a few days of actual use.

If you think that is out of line, then good on ya. Luckily you're not my mom. Because she's dead so if you were my mom then you wouldn't be able to use your nice Canikon gear.

[KungPOW]

I really don't see what Nostatic did as being so morally wrong.

If Pentax wants people to buy their gear online then they need to allow for a certain number of returns. This looks like this is Pentax's new business model. Pentax has taken every step they could to remove their product from the smaller brick and morters, and they are banking that people will buy online. If the product is not available in any store, how do you expect people to determine if the camera is the right camera for thei use?

So a camera was bought. It didn't feel right, and it could not be used as expected. Back it went. Big deal. So what. Get over it. Not everyone has the cash to buy every camera they want.

[bogiesbad]

Also, do not forget that Pentax tells customers if they need service or repair or exchange they should return the gear to the SELLER not to Pentax. I forget the exact wording but basically we are told to leave Pentax alone unless as a last resort. Pentax does not want the consumer returning new but defective or damaged gear to them...that fits with a different distribution model.

I am not sure that is entirely true now. Here is evidence to the contrary. The thread....post #13 also contradicts.

[Peter Zack]

I really don't see what Nostatic did as being so morally wrong.

If Pentax wants people to buy their gear online then they need to allow for a certain number of returns. This looks like this is Pentax's new business model. Pentax has taken every step they could to remove their product from the smaller brick and morters, and they are banking that people will buy online. If the product is not available in any store, how do you expect people to determine if the camera is the right camera for thei use?

So a camera was bought. It didn't feel right, and it could not be used as expected. Back it went. Big deal. So what. Get over it. Not everyone has the cash to buy every camera they want.

I have to agree. The closest store that has one is 700 Kms round trip from my house. So in order to just try one out, most of the time I would have to order online. As it turns out I had to go to Halifax for other reasons and did get to try the camera (being a left eye shooter, I had real concerns about the smaller size) and like it. But I've ordered online and returned stuff a couple of times. There's no store anywhere near me that carries most of what I own today. I'm not getting on a plane and spending $1000 just to try a lens or body. If they want to sell on line, then returns after a test run have to be part of the cost and business model. Consider that they save a huge amount in distribution and warehousing costs as well as sales reps commissions and all that infrastructure when just selling to a few on line stores.

Nobody who's thinking straight would order a DA*16-50mm Ltd for example, based on internet chatter, get it and decide it's not the lens that will do the job and just keep it sitting on a shelf. It would go back.

[Rondec]

I have to agree. The closest store that has one is 700 Kms round trip from my house. So in order to just try one out, most of the time I would have to order online. As it turns out I had to go to Halifax for other reasons and did get to try the camera (being a left eye shooter, I had real concerns about the smaller size) and like it. But I've ordered online and returned stuff a couple of times. There's no store anywhere near me that carries most of what I own today. I'm not getting on a plane and spending $1000 just to try a lens or body. If they want to sell on line, then returns after a test run have to be part of the cost and business model. Consider that they save a huge amount in distribution and warehousing costs as well as sales reps commissions and all that infrastructure when just selling to a few on line stores.

Nobody who's thinking straight would order a DA*16-50mm Ltd for example, based on internet chatter, get it and decide it's not the lens that will do the job and just keep it sitting on a shelf. It would go back.

There are a lot of people in rural areas that are in the same boat -- not just with regard to Pentax. There are no close stores to me that sell decent camera equipment -- whether Nikon, Canon, or Pentax. That means that I have to purchase equipment online and test it carefully when it comes. It also makes me careful to purchase items from sites that have good return policies. The reality is that if I buy an item from the local hardware store and get it home and I don't like it for any reason, I can return it, no questions asked. This is really not that much different.

[Peter Zack]

Yes that's true of me as well. We have 2 choices in the entire province. A big box store that only carries high volume items and a small independant that has focused more on framing, printing, albums and similar work. They have a grand total of 4 bodies on the shelf (1 Pentax, 2 Canon's and a Nikon) all are entry level, as are the 6 or so lenses they carry. Even if I bought from them (they will order anything I want) I better be sure I'm keeping it. They are not taking back a special order item.

In my case to get to Halifax, I have 2 tolls to pay (total $48.50) and then gas. So at 700 Kms plus some food, it's a $150.00 day. Hence I can't remember the last item I bought at a brick n mortar store.

[Blue]

There are a lot of people in rural areas that are in the same boat -- not just with regard to Pentax. There are no close stores to me that sell decent camera equipment -- whether Nikon, Canon, or Pentax. That means that I have to purchase equipment online and test it carefully when it comes. It also makes me careful to purchase items from sites that have good return policies. The reality is that if I buy an item from the local hardware store and get it home and I don't like it for any reason, I can return it, no questions asked. This is really not that much different.

I live in Florida's state capital and I'm in the same boat.

[Blue]

To me, this signals the replacement for the K200D.

If that turns out to be true, there should be another body released at the end of September.

[Leaf Fan]

I find that a robust return policy leads me to believe that the manufacturer is confident with their product, and that once they get it into your hand you'll want to keep it, but just in case it's not what you expected or what you ultimate desire, they're happy to take it back and sell it to someone else.

Return policies are a large factor in online purchases.

If a company wants to offer a 30-60-90 day return policy and someone returns within the rules, then both parties have lived up to their mutually agreed upon transaction.

[Blue]

A source for this assumption has never been provided. It is pure conjecture. Please don't repeat it as fact unless someone can actually back this up.

And a hint: just saying, "it is absolutely true!" is not a supporting fact.

He has made this comment in several threads now.

[Blue]

NoStatic Dude , I ignored your needed "Proof" just like you ignored my desire to know how many shots you ran up on the ADORAMA K-7 your returned in "like new shape" that had no defects, you know after your test drove Adorama's K-7 to then Chit~Chat about using Adorama's "generous dslr return policy"

How about this, why don't you provide the proof? I'm curious how many shots you took with the ADORAMA K-7 and you can then call around and see who deals pentax in your neighborhood.

Find a camera shop that actually stocks pentax brand cameras and gear and ask them if Amazon is now their Pentax distributor? Confirm it for yourself ,that is if there is a dealer who actually stocks pentax brand cameras in Southern California thesedays. SoCal right? US dealers are dropping Pentax left and right. I wonder why ???

I'm not sure why this amazon distributes gear to dealers for Pentax USA tidbit bothers you soooo much ???



?

I'd have to find a dealer locally that didnt' first tell me Pentax was going out of business.

[Samsungian]

Not only that answer from JCPentax, but please ask another one from my same reliable first hand source:

Does pentax require $100,000 annually from dealers to keep their Pentax Franchise viable? Both bits from same source, would be great to know pentax official answer to these 2 rumours.


Up till now I've been one to enjoy info posted in various brand gear forums and I take it all pretty much as rumour until new gear is launched and official. Now however I may use the interrogation tactic: "prove it" "provide your source" or add I'll question the poster's intergrity at every oportunity, ect...

I have no reason to doubt the $100K annual info or the amazon.com distributes pentax info. If JCPentax, John says otherwise I'll email my buddy with the JCPentax rebuttal info and ask for more clarity??? All I know is pentax is changing , whether they are evolving for the better or simply trying not to drown remains to be seen.

I've yet to see an offical acknowledgement of the K-7 vertical green line syndrome. Unless someone else has, maybe JCPentax can offer the official Pentax USA perspective on the defective K-7 sensors? Maybe this is very good third question and possibly the most important one to answer since he's in the house?

My wife is cool if I cash out of our Pentax gears, as we chatted about it last night. She really likes the 5D I got her, but when she travels alone for work she carries the K20D & 3 or 4 pentax lenses. I put her into Pentax in 2000 and in 2009 maybe I'll pull her out of it? I'll miss K20D if I cash out, as its a really nice camera and compliments my manual focus lens collection quite nicely. But I got some real bucks tied up in old Pentax stuff and if I feel the company is heading south then I don't want to loose the majority of the outlay I've made over the years too. Part of the reason I've amassed a nice multibrand gear collection is cause most items I bought have held their good guy purchase prices and due to internets I can sell direct to next owner instead of getting screwed by the local dealers who have in the past offered me 10c on the dollar on stuff I bought from them, with my receipts inhand.

Silly Boys, they are very fun to buy some items from but I sell them NOTHING. Never have, never will.

He has made this comment in several threads now.

[noblepa]

<snip>

Find a camera shop that actually stocks pentax brand cameras and gear and ask them if Amazon is now their Pentax distributor? Confirm it for yourself ,that is if there is a dealer who actually stocks pentax brand cameras in Southern California thesedays. SoCal right? US dealers are dropping Pentax left and right. I wonder why ???

I just came from Dodd Camera & Video, in downtown Cleveland. They are a large pro-shop. You want a Leaf camera? They've got it. Canon 5D II? In stock. Pentax, also in stock.

I spoke with a salesman who is not only knowledgeable about Pentax gear, he shoots with it, himself.

He told me that this rumor is ABSOLUTELY FALSE (empahsis is mine). They still order and receive their stock from Pentax USA, in Colorado.

He also told me that they have a Pentax rep, who visits them regularly.

BTW, we had to cut our conversation short, because he was called to the phone to help a customer who was asking about Pentax cameras and he is the "Guru" for all things Pentax at that store.

He confirmed that Nikon and Canon provide a lot of trade credit to their dealers and that Pentax does not. This is probably a big reason that stores don't stock Pentax. He claimed (this is unverified), that the $26M that Ritz owed Nikon amounted to 20 percent of Nikon's annual US revenue.

BTW, when I was in San Diego last March, there was a camera store downtown (I forget the name), that had a whole wall display case behind the counter, filled with Pentax cameras, lenses and flashes. Granted, that's over a year ago.

[stanleyk]

Blue on a more important subject, I got:

Miami 23
FSU 17