Pentax USA out of repair business

tvfd911 · 08-03-2009, 09:17 PM

Gus, don't feel like you're not in the loop. This is a common practice for OEM's to outsource different services to 3rd party companies. I work for a large OEM, and two major departments off the top of my head are 3rd party. One of the places we hire are also the same people as the OnStar services in cars. When you call them, you'd never know who signs the individual's paycheck.

Assuming John's not feeding us a couple lines of bs regarding that repairs have been done for a while now by 3rd party, and the new company is at least as competant, I'm not worried. Good outsourcing companies work hard to provide a high quality of service. They can put all their efforts in becoming proficient at troubleshooting/repair. I'm sure Pentax has some way of seeing failure modes through CRIS.

I haven't had to use a repair center yet, but if the day comes, I hope it is as smooth as all of you (minus Jeff's Chicago experience) have stated.

**volley** · 08-03-2009, 09:56 PM

Pentax in Germany also outsourced the repair business to an independent 3rd party (the same company that does already the repair and service jobs for CANON!). I'll find out about their service level quite soon, I've just shipped my K200 for an estimate after I damaged it - a concrete flooe is still more solid than a Pentax

Regards
Norbert

GearHead · 08-03-2009, 10:04 PM

Originally posted by JCPentax

Since I manage Product Marketing and Support for Pentax, I feel like I am in the best position to address this transition.

First, Pentax has outsourced our Repair Service for about eight years now.

We looked at our current repair processes and the cost involved and elected to make a change in service providers. The transition will allow us to provide a high level of service in a more cost effective manner.

As far as the service provider, CRIS has been a trusted Pentax Authorized Warranty Service center for a number of years. They have participated in every repair training seminar that our previous service provider had, so the level of repair skill is equivalent.

Additionally, CRIS has a "A" ranking with the Better Business Bureau. This is extremely difficult to attain unless you offer the best possible service.

CRIS also agreed to maintain the same repair pricing as Pentax previously had. There is no change in costs to have a camera repaired.

Finally, the person at CRIS responsible for Pentax is a former Pentax employee. He worked for a number of years in the Pentax Customer Service Department and also was a Product Manager for Pentax during the *ist years. He is passionate about Pentax and about offering the best level of service.

We are very excited about this transition and feel it will allow Pentax to provide a higher level of service to Pentaxians in the U.S.

Thank you John for your time in reading and responding to threads like these. Nice to hear the facts and quell speculation and fear. Sounds like a good company and if you had to change, it looks like a good candidate. Good luck.

Matt

deadwolfbones · 08-03-2009, 10:28 PM

Yeah, thanks John!

dopeytree · 08-04-2009, 05:54 AM

This also happened a while ago here in the uk, I think becuase they used to send the stuff to pentax germany to be repaired so now its here in the UK with average workaround times being 5days as opposed to 2 weeks before

sanderscapes · 08-04-2009, 06:03 AM

I've heard a lot of mixed reviews.A friend of mine's k20 took 11 weeks to be repaired .

jeffkrol · 08-04-2009, 07:08 AM

Originally posted by JCPentax

Wow, I would say you hold on to slights a bit long. How old is the Super Program? Pentax hasn't had a company repair center in Chicago for over 14 years (longer than I have been at Pentax). We have Authorized Warranty shops around the country, but when items are out of warranty, they are completely independent shops.

No the Chicago one was an authorized service center... as you note I sent my "D" there. And yes it was my stupidity for not sending it to Colorado.. problem was it was faster and more convenient to send it there then to Colorado from where I'm located. Your new program is no different then "authorized Warranty shops" but hopefully better... Sorry I just wouldn't have recommended anyone sending the camera to Chicago... but more my fault then theirs. Even at the time w/ the D I should have just refused the repair, had it sent back to me and fired it off to Colorado.. so many risks and so many unknowns that it wasn't worth it. Of course I'd have the cost of 4 shipping's......

As to old history:
The second time the superprogram failed was at a very BAD time (very personal) and is hard not to be at least a tad bitter about it since it caused me to not get some very personal shots.........
As to Pentax in general:
Multiple e-mails to Pentax USA and Canada in regards to the voltage restriction on the flash trigger circuit were never answered. Multiple questions regarding light metering calibration were never answered...
Do we know, to this day, what the flash trigger voltage and tolerances are is?????? I don't think so
On a good note I'm willing to ignore the foibles for now.....

Blue · 08-04-2009, 08:15 AM

Originally posted by jeffkrol

......
As to Pentax in general:
Multiple e-mails to Pentax USA and Canada in regards to the voltage restriction on the flash trigger circuit were never answered. Multiple questions regarding light metering calibration were never answered...
Do we know, to this day, what the flash trigger voltage and tolerances are is?????? I don't think so
On a good note I'm willing to ignore the foibles for now.....

That question was asked directly to Ned in his blog yesterday. He passed over it and answered some "how's the weather" type questions. I pointed out that I'd like to know the answer to it as well just for the technical info on my part. The only old flash I have is a Honeywell Strobonar and plan only to trigger it with a slave.

Blue · 08-04-2009, 08:18 AM

When repairs are out sourced, I always wonder what happens to the Technical expertise. The only camera I've had to send back was a Nikon when the sensor died. They replaced the sensor at no cost even though it was out of warranty because of a recall. I sent it to NY and it was back in 2 weeks. That allowed me to hold off until the K200d and K20d were released.

Alphonse · 08-04-2009, 08:19 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

The outsourcing transition has already been made in Germany.

As a result, the state of Pentax service in Germany is in a complete mess right now. Up to a point where Hoya!! management in Japan started to reply and apologize to complaints sent by some members of German forum DFN ...

Hi,

It's exactly the same case in France. As I currently read some post on the k10dforums website, the 3rd party repair factory center PM2S is a mess.

If I should sum up the complaints from several Pentaxians:
- Impossible to get a technician at phone.
- If you don't live around the repair factory, you could always await for any reply on your request.
- Same attempt from Pentax France to calm the french Pentaxians
- Several attempts from the 3rd party repair center to refuse the warranty of the buyers suggesting the damage made purposely by their owners.
etc, etc...

It's a total mess...

JCPentax · 08-04-2009, 08:34 AM

Originally posted by Igilligan

Thanks John,
But I am so confused now. So the people who I sent my camera to at the Pentax Service Center in Colorado last year and the year before were not from Pentax? The two really helpful service men that I dealt with on the phone were actually with another company?
I have nothing but praise for my dealings with those folks at the Pentax Service Center in Co. Address and Phone number, even if it was all just a ruse...

John, It seems everytime you answer a question in these forums lately, I realize just how little I know about the company I bought my camera and lenses from. Here I am on the phone with the Pentax service dept and they are talking to me about my camera and come to find out it was not Pentax at all, it was another service company.

You would have been talking to the Pentax Customer Service Department, which is separate from the repair service department. However, these two groups communicate through a service system that gives all pertinent data about a repair. You would have never talked to the repair shop itself.

We actually expect the communication to be better with the new system.

JCPentax · 08-04-2009, 08:35 AM

Originally posted by tvfd911

Assuming John's not feeding us a couple lines of bs regarding that repairs have been done for a while now by 3rd party, and the new company is at least as competant, I'm not worried.

I try to avoid BS. BS is very transparent to some people, and I would rather give honest facts.

JCPentax · 08-04-2009, 08:37 AM

Originally posted by sanderscapes

I've heard a lot of mixed reviews.A friend of mine's k20 took 11 weeks to be repaired .

That type of turnaround time is usually due to a parts delay. With better communication between the new service provider and our parts department, plus more frequent parts orders due to this better communication, we hope to avoid this situation in the future.

JCPentax · 08-04-2009, 08:40 AM

Originally posted by jeffkrol

As to Pentax in general:
Multiple e-mails to Pentax USA and Canada in regards to the voltage restriction on the flash trigger circuit were never answered. Multiple questions regarding light metering calibration were never answered...
Do we know, to this day, what the flash trigger voltage and tolerances are is?????? I don't think so
On a good note I'm willing to ignore the foibles for now.....

Ah, you asked the twenty thousand dollar question. We have asked Pentax Japan about this data for years, but they have never given it up. The "official" response is that we do not test, nor recommend using any other flash on the SLR bodies besides Pentax flashes. The engineers feel that giving away this information is somehow an endorsement of using third party flash units.

We don't answer this question because we can't get the information from Japan.

Blue · 08-04-2009, 08:55 AM

Originally posted by JCPentax

Ah, you asked the twenty thousand dollar question. We have asked Pentax Japan about this data for years, but they have never given it up. The "official" response is that we do not test, nor recommend using any other flash on the SLR bodies besides Pentax flashes. The engineers feel that giving away this information is somehow an endorsement of using third party flash units.

We don't answer this question because we can't get the information from Japan.

Actually, you did answer the question just now. In the past this question has been largely ignored. Would my old Honeywell Strobonar be considered a 3rd party flash?

Also, is there anything to the rumor that Amazon.com is the U.S. distributor for Pentax?

08-03-2009, 09:56 PM	#17
volley Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Springe Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,693	Same move by Pentax Germany Pentax in Germany also outsourced the repair business to an independent 3rd party (the same company that does already the repair and service jobs for CANON!). I'll find out about their service level quite soon, I've just shipped my K200 for an estimate after I damaged it - a concrete flooe is still more solid than a Pentax Regards Norbert

08-03-2009, 10:04 PM	#18
GearHead Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Oregon Photos: Gallery Posts: 82	Thank you Originally posted by JCPentax Since I manage Product Marketing and Support for Pentax, I feel like I am in the best position to address this transition. First, Pentax has outsourced our Repair Service for about eight years now. We looked at our current repair processes and the cost involved and elected to make a change in service providers. The transition will allow us to provide a high level of service in a more cost effective manner. As far as the service provider, CRIS has been a trusted Pentax Authorized Warranty Service center for a number of years. They have participated in every repair training seminar that our previous service provider had, so the level of repair skill is equivalent. Additionally, CRIS has a "A" ranking with the Better Business Bureau. This is extremely difficult to attain unless you offer the best possible service. CRIS also agreed to maintain the same repair pricing as Pentax previously had. There is no change in costs to have a camera repaired. Finally, the person at CRIS responsible for Pentax is a former Pentax employee. He worked for a number of years in the Pentax Customer Service Department and also was a Product Manager for Pentax during the *ist years. He is passionate about Pentax and about offering the best level of service. We are very excited about this transition and feel it will allow Pentax to provide a higher level of service to Pentaxians in the U.S. Thank you John for your time in reading and responding to threads like these. Nice to hear the facts and quell speculation and fear. Sounds like a good company and if you had to change, it looks like a good candidate. Good luck. Matt

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08-03-2009, 09:17 PM	#16
tvfd911 Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: WI Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 354	Gus, don't feel like you're not in the loop. This is a common practice for OEM's to outsource different services to 3rd party companies. I work for a large OEM, and two major departments off the top of my head are 3rd party. One of the places we hire are also the same people as the OnStar services in cars. When you call them, you'd never know who signs the individual's paycheck. Assuming John's not feeding us a couple lines of bs regarding that repairs have been done for a while now by 3rd party, and the new company is at least as competant, I'm not worried. Good outsourcing companies work hard to provide a high quality of service. They can put all their efforts in becoming proficient at troubleshooting/repair. I'm sure Pentax has some way of seeing failure modes through CRIS. I haven't had to use a repair center yet, but if the day comes, I hope it is as smooth as all of you (minus Jeff's Chicago experience) have stated.

08-03-2009, 10:28 PM	#19
deadwolfbones Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: La Crescenta, CA Posts: 7,450	Yeah, thanks John!

08-04-2009, 05:54 AM	#20
dopeytree Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Somerset, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 619	This also happened a while ago here in the uk, I think becuase they used to send the stuff to pentax germany to be repaired so now its here in the UK with average workaround times being 5days as opposed to 2 weeks before

08-04-2009, 06:03 AM	#21
sanderscapes Inactive Account Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Cumbria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11	I've heard a lot of mixed reviews.A friend of mine's k20 took 11 weeks to be repaired .

08-04-2009, 07:08 AM	#22
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434	Originally posted by JCPentax Wow, I would say you hold on to slights a bit long. How old is the Super Program? Pentax hasn't had a company repair center in Chicago for over 14 years (longer than I have been at Pentax). We have Authorized Warranty shops around the country, but when items are out of warranty, they are completely independent shops. No the Chicago one was an authorized service center... as you note I sent my "D" there. And yes it was my stupidity for not sending it to Colorado.. problem was it was faster and more convenient to send it there then to Colorado from where I'm located. Your new program is no different then "authorized Warranty shops" but hopefully better... Sorry I just wouldn't have recommended anyone sending the camera to Chicago... but more my fault then theirs. Even at the time w/ the D I should have just refused the repair, had it sent back to me and fired it off to Colorado.. so many risks and so many unknowns that it wasn't worth it. Of course I'd have the cost of 4 shipping's...... As to old history: The second time the superprogram failed was at a very BAD time (very personal) and is hard not to be at least a tad bitter about it since it caused me to not get some very personal shots......... As to Pentax in general: Multiple e-mails to Pentax USA and Canada in regards to the voltage restriction on the flash trigger circuit were never answered. Multiple questions regarding light metering calibration were never answered... Do we know, to this day, what the flash trigger voltage and tolerances are is?????? I don't think so On a good note I'm willing to ignore the foibles for now.....

08-04-2009, 08:15 AM	#23
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by jeffkrol ...... As to Pentax in general: Multiple e-mails to Pentax USA and Canada in regards to the voltage restriction on the flash trigger circuit were never answered. Multiple questions regarding light metering calibration were never answered... Do we know, to this day, what the flash trigger voltage and tolerances are is?????? I don't think so On a good note I'm willing to ignore the foibles for now..... That question was asked directly to Ned in his blog yesterday. He passed over it and answered some "how's the weather" type questions. I pointed out that I'd like to know the answer to it as well just for the technical info on my part. The only old flash I have is a Honeywell Strobonar and plan only to trigger it with a slave.

08-04-2009, 08:18 AM	#24
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	When repairs are out sourced, I always wonder what happens to the Technical expertise. The only camera I've had to send back was a Nikon when the sensor died. They replaced the sensor at no cost even though it was out of warranty because of a recall. I sent it to NY and it was back in 2 weeks. That allowed me to hold off until the K200d and K20d were released.

08-04-2009, 08:19 AM	#25
Alphonse New Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Brie Comte Robert, France Posts: 13	Originally posted by falconeye The outsourcing transition has already been made in Germany. As a result, the state of Pentax service in Germany is in a complete mess right now. Up to a point where Hoya!! management in Japan started to reply and apologize to complaints sent by some members of German forum DFN ... Hi, It's exactly the same case in France. As I currently read some post on the k10dforums website, the 3rd party repair factory center PM2S is a mess. If I should sum up the complaints from several Pentaxians: - Impossible to get a technician at phone. - If you don't live around the repair factory, you could always await for any reply on your request. - Same attempt from Pentax France to calm the french Pentaxians - Several attempts from the 3rd party repair center to refuse the warranty of the buyers suggesting the damage made purposely by their owners. etc, etc... It's a total mess...

08-04-2009, 08:34 AM	#26
JCPentax Inactive Account Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 146	Originally posted by Igilligan Thanks John, But I am so confused now. So the people who I sent my camera to at the Pentax Service Center in Colorado last year and the year before were not from Pentax? The two really helpful service men that I dealt with on the phone were actually with another company? I have nothing but praise for my dealings with those folks at the Pentax Service Center in Co. Address and Phone number, even if it was all just a ruse... John, It seems everytime you answer a question in these forums lately, I realize just how little I know about the company I bought my camera and lenses from. Here I am on the phone with the Pentax service dept and they are talking to me about my camera and come to find out it was not Pentax at all, it was another service company. You would have been talking to the Pentax Customer Service Department, which is separate from the repair service department. However, these two groups communicate through a service system that gives all pertinent data about a repair. You would have never talked to the repair shop itself. We actually expect the communication to be better with the new system.

08-04-2009, 08:35 AM	#27
JCPentax Inactive Account Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 146	Originally posted by tvfd911 Assuming John's not feeding us a couple lines of bs regarding that repairs have been done for a while now by 3rd party, and the new company is at least as competant, I'm not worried. I try to avoid BS. BS is very transparent to some people, and I would rather give honest facts.

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08-04-2009, 08:37 AM	#28
JCPentax Inactive Account Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 146	Originally posted by sanderscapes I've heard a lot of mixed reviews.A friend of mine's k20 took 11 weeks to be repaired . That type of turnaround time is usually due to a parts delay. With better communication between the new service provider and our parts department, plus more frequent parts orders due to this better communication, we hope to avoid this situation in the future.

08-04-2009, 08:40 AM	#29
JCPentax Inactive Account Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 146	Originally posted by jeffkrol As to Pentax in general: Multiple e-mails to Pentax USA and Canada in regards to the voltage restriction on the flash trigger circuit were never answered. Multiple questions regarding light metering calibration were never answered... Do we know, to this day, what the flash trigger voltage and tolerances are is?????? I don't think so On a good note I'm willing to ignore the foibles for now..... Ah, you asked the twenty thousand dollar question. We have asked Pentax Japan about this data for years, but they have never given it up. The "official" response is that we do not test, nor recommend using any other flash on the SLR bodies besides Pentax flashes. The engineers feel that giving away this information is somehow an endorsement of using third party flash units. We don't answer this question because we can't get the information from Japan.

08-04-2009, 08:55 AM	#30
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by JCPentax Ah, you asked the twenty thousand dollar question. We have asked Pentax Japan about this data for years, but they have never given it up. The "official" response is that we do not test, nor recommend using any other flash on the SLR bodies besides Pentax flashes. The engineers feel that giving away this information is somehow an endorsement of using third party flash units. We don't answer this question because we can't get the information from Japan. Actually, you did answer the question just now. In the past this question has been largely ignored. Would my old Honeywell Strobonar be considered a 3rd party flash? Also, is there anything to the rumor that Amazon.com is the U.S. distributor for Pentax?