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08-12-2009, 10:05 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Even if Pentax went under tomorrow, I'd still have a great body (K20d) and a bevy of fine lenses. I'd still wake up the next morning, put on my pants one leg at a time, and go out and take pictures. And the next day and the week and the next month and the next year.

And then I'd pick up some more lenses at fire sale prices as others left the fold, the sweet DA* 50-135, an FA77, etc... and go out and take more pictures for another year.

And then I'd pick up a used K-7 or two. And then go out and take picture for another year. Or 5. Or maybe 10, if there were still photos to take.
Exactly my analysis that I made several years ago when I decided on Pentax for digital. I did get to go hold a K100 and compare it with Canon and Nikon. I do agree that for folks just selecting a camera "system", that being able to hold the body is a must, and I hate to see Pentax appearing to be dropping out of the B&M Retail segment.

I have essentially acquired all the lenses that I felt I "needed/wanted" over the last 4 years. So I do feel that at a minimum, I can do what I want - if I could acquire a set of limiteds - I would, in a heartbeat. I have a K20 and a K100 that will last me a good long wile, along with my original Spotmatic II from 1970 - and I do not have to worry about film costs... I would not mind a K7, but my 4 month old K20 will do just fine for a long time I anticipate (at least for the 3 year warranty period).

08-12-2009, 10:07 PM   #47
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Haven't test driven the last 2 cars i purchased (new) and none of the 4 cameras.

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08-12-2009, 10:07 PM   #48
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I'll just say this ... the camera business could be going the way of the laptop business. You can't buy the best laptops at your local store anymore, even in big metropolitan areas.
08-12-2009, 10:15 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by jack56 Quote
That other post is 3 months old and I couldn't find it offhand, so I made a new one. I actually hold down a job so I don't have all day to search for it. Big deal.

Why did I buy a Pentax when I thought they were in trouble?
1. I actually got to handle one in a STORE plus read all the reviews.
2. It seemed to be a better camera than others in it's class.
3. I got mine dirt cheap. AND because I got to actually handle one first in a store.
Oh wait! I already said that... excuse me.
4. I figure I could get Pentax equipment , lenses and such cheaper if they were in trouble.


Just to follow up on this and ignoring the tone and bold lettering.
Your answers prove the point I was making. These were discontinued cameras, the K20 and K200 had been out for some time. You got them cheap for one of two reasons (probably a combination of the two) - they weren't being asked for by the customer and they weren't being offered by the sales people when they were current.
Canon and Nikon had it all tied up everywhere except for a few stores like Dave Seigels
that offer product according to the customers needs, not the bottom line.


One thing I will say about your comments above though, I take the job reference as a cheap shot and an insult. You don't know me or my circumstances and you were out of order, bad mood or not. I'd like you to remove that comment, an apology would be nice as well but I don't expect it.

08-12-2009, 10:47 PM   #50
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i feel another episode coming on...

08-12-2009, 11:18 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
I've yet to buy a dslr I had not held beforehand.

K20D

D700

5D

All touched & chatted with real Reps about them prior to later purchases.

I've handled D3 and 5DII and Oly E-3 right after release and didn't buy them so I don't buy everything I try. I think Hoya is underestimating their new hands off, buy to try, approach to pentax gear sales. You know, one must buy from online vendor to try a K-7 as opposed to just visiting their local shops in USA.

Canon and Nikon still have Reps. I can find Canon and Nikon locally at numerous locations. Pentax used to compete locally. What changed? They got sold off to Hoya.

Hoya is a huge company. Pentax brand is Hoya's company to do with as they (Hoya) likes.

I still get hung up when people say "Pentax this" and "Pentax that". Pentax is owned by Hoya. I'd say Pentax retreating from local stores by requiring 100k annual minimums which Canon and Nikon do not is a Hoya decision. Doulbling some lens prices globally is a Hoya decision:

Fewer sales at higher price points means more profits on existing inventory, gear made by fewer employees mainly at outsourced locations and its all then rep'd by fewer employees. No ads to buy as its all gone to viral & free internet marketing now. Didn't I read this in last hoya ceo report a month ago? Fewer sales at higher margins lead to better profits.
I don't think Hoya understands the US market - it was their (announced) decision to withdraw from store sales in the US market and rely on internet sales (no reps visit stores here because there no longer are any to do so). In doing this Hoya is only preaching to the choir - selling Pentaxes mostly to loyal Pentax owners - which is a poor way to increase market share. A case in point: Ned Bunnell's traveling K7 roadshow made two stops in southern California last week - one in LA County and one in Orange County - each I understand to an audience of no more than 20 attendees. This is an area with millions of people and thousands of potential buyers (the recession notwithstanding). Why the small turnout? No advertising, of course - if you didn't read Ned Bunnell's blog (or a belated announcement on a Pentax forum from someone else who had) you wouldn't have known about it at all - and even then it was too short a notice for some (like me) who would have gone if prior commitments hadn't interfered. While Hoya may not have given Pentax Imaging an advertising budget, the folks at Golden could have notified their registered owners or at least their email news list registrants!

There has been great excitement - well deserved - in the Pentax community about the K7, which has driven early sales by those trading up. There have been good reviews in the photo mags, but most readers of those are established serious photographers already invested in a system from which few are likely to switch. Pentaxians like myself who have been buying Pentaxes for nearly as long as there have been Pentaxes are growing old and will eventually not be buying more (for all I know, if and when I buy a K7 it might well be my last), and how many new recruits will there be to replace us (and the others who lately found their first Pentax DSLR in a store or at least once saw an ad for one) when neophyte photographers will no longer even know Pentax exists?

Note that Hoya's Sport Optics division still manages to advertise their excellent binoculars in outdoors magazines. The last ad from Pentax Imaging I saw was one maybe a couple of years ago in Popular Photography promising to do a better job of advertising!

Hoya also has announced that their upcoming pro-level "medium format" dslr will not be sold in the US (or was it all of North America?) because they do not foresee sufficient sales - certainly a self-fulfilling prophesy. And has it escaped anyone's notice that Tokina, after being bought by Hoya, no longer markets lenses for anything but Canon and Nikon?

There are a number of online retailers that carry Pentax DSLR cameras, and several also have stores, but with one exception I don't know of a single one of their stores in the LA area that displays them any more. I haven't seen a store ad for a year or more for a Pentax camera. I must admit that I did just see a newspaper ad from Fry's (of all places - the one exception) that they have in store the K7 - of course their demonstrator will be tethered to the counter without lens or battery . . . .

I have harped elsewhere on the advertising issue and quoted this before, but it bears repeating here:

The codfish lays a million eggs
And the Helpful Hen lays one
But the codfish never cackles
To inform you what she's done.
And so we scorn the codfish
And the Helpful Hen we prize
Which indicates to thoughtful minds
It pays to advertise.

Think about it.

Last edited by penolta; 08-12-2009 at 11:47 PM.
08-12-2009, 11:30 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by jack56 Quote
First, the K20D is not a discontinued camera, at least it wasn't when I bought it.

On the comment, I actually hold down a job part, was in reference for jumping on me about a double post that I made 3 months ago. Your a moderator so this stuff comes easy for you, when your rushed for time, like I am at times, you get in a hurry.
I was also a mite offended by the "hint" you made about "Trolling". I don't think ANY of my posts are like that.
That said, I'm sorry I offended you and will remove the remark you didn't like.
I would appreciate then you in turn remove the "chewing" for double posting and "Trolling".

and when we're done, let's remove this post and the one you made above...
So you bite at Damn Brit, and claim to be in a big ol' rush to start YET ANOTHER is Pentax dead thread.

But then you have time to make a dozen posts on the same topic for the last 7 hours....

Is Pentax dead? no. This topic on the other hand could use some last rights.
08-12-2009, 11:43 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by KungPOW Quote
So you bite at Damn Brit, and claim to be in a big ol' rush to start YET ANOTHER is Pentax dead thread.

But then you have time to make a dozen posts on the same topic for the last 7 hours....

Is Pentax dead? no. This topic on the other hand could use some last rights.
I think Damn Brit took the first bite.

Well, lets see, I've been off work since 5pm so lessee here? Yep about 7 hours.

Don't like this post... then don't post.

08-13-2009, 12:02 AM   #54
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First I apologise for making an assumption about your camera, I missed the K20 because you had bought it used. You had bought a K10d though, new, after it had been discontinued, that is the one that I had referred to.
I'm not going to apologise for my earlier post. It was a completely rational post in response to your original one in this thread. I suggest you go back and read it again.
I did not jump on you, I merely pointed it out.
I also did not hint at trolling and if you go back and read my post you will see that I clearly stated that it was not an accusation.
It doesn't matter how rushed you are, there is no need for aggression on this forum.
If you're rushed, don't post if you can't keep your temper. If you are aggressive and someone calls you on it, you should back off. I have been posting in this thread as a member, not a moderator. If you want to continue with the aggression, there are already a couple of posts in this thread that I or someone else would be justified in reporting. As I have been personally involved, it will be one of the other moderators who handles it if it comes to that.
I suggest you take a little time to cool off.



QuoteOriginally posted by jack56 Quote
First, the K20D is not a discontinued camera, at least it wasn't when I bought it.

On the comment, I actually hold down a job part, was in reference for jumping on me about a double post that I made 3 months ago. Your a moderator so this stuff comes easy for you, when your rushed for time, like I am at times, you get in a hurry.
I was also a mite offended by the "hint" you made about "Trolling". I don't think ANY of my posts are like that.
That said, I'm sorry I offended you and will remove the remark you didn't like.
I would appreciate then you in turn remove the "chewing" for double posting and "Trolling".

and when we're done, let's remove this post and the one you made above...
08-13-2009, 12:15 AM   #55
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Damn Brit;
I'm not going to apologise for my earlier post. It was a completely rational post in response to your original one in this thread. I suggest you go back and read it again.
I did not jump on you, I merely pointed it out.
Seems to me that is enough, merely pointing it out.
I also did not hint at trolling and if you go back and read my post you will see that I clearly stated that it was not an accusation.
Why did you even mention "Trolling" then if you didn't mean anything by it?

Let's quit beating a dead horse and move on...
08-13-2009, 12:42 AM   #56
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Now that you seem to have cooled down (the blue helps) and we are all rational again, I agree, it's time to bury this dead horse.

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