[Xian]

This week Sony will announce 3 new DSLR, 2 APS-C with CMOS Exmor R (12 and 15MPx) with high ISO performance and Quick LV and the a850 a FF camera like a900, but under $2000.
I think Sony is going good.

Pentax need make like it...

Shouldn't Pentax be announcing something very soon as well????

[Jazzyboy]

I do not believe the market is moving toward FF

Canon has a 7D on the way (even though it could be an aps-h)
Here in Europe you can already find a nikon D700 for 2000 euros
And there is that sony a850 that seems to be more than a rumor

Believe it or not but next year, with the lowering of prices, the market share of FF will grow naturaly.

...Canon, Nikon and Sony offer a FF option as their way of targeting the market for maximum image quality. Pentax will be introducing their 645D soon that will compete with the FF offerings from others, perhaps a slightly higher price

Sorry but you are dreaming and I must say that I find it unbelievable that some pentaxians still think that the 645D (project) is the Pentax response to full frames from the concurrence ( Even if it was so, it would be the most inadequate response they could ever find).
First, if you are interested in this camera then you should know (for long) that it will not be available everywhere... in fact, only in Japan. It will be a "limited" camera. Of course you'll have the possibility to order it but at a cost.

Secondly, thoug Pentax can try to make it weathersealed , this is still primarily a studio camera simply because of its size... and we know nothing yet about its iso capacity. Most of the current digital medium formats are limited to something like 1600 iso if not 800...

And finally, I don't know where you got your information concerning the price but beleive me, it will be moooooore than "slightly" a higher price than the fullframes (35mm fullframes) from the others. I can remember an interview from a Pentax executive at the time when they put the 645D project aside. He said they had doubts on who would be able to buy such a camera if they released it.... I guess they managed to make it a little cheaper now but it will certainly not be affordable... not at all.

In fact this camera is meant for clients working in fashion or advertisement, etc... It is not a response to the 2000 $$ 35mm fullframes. There is no response to the 35mm fullframes.

[lithos]

This week Sony will announce 3 new DSLR, 2 APS-C with CMOS Exmor R (12 and 15MPx) with high ISO performance and Quick LV and the a850 a FF camera like a900, but under $2000.
I think Sony is going good.

Pentax need make like it...

Aye. See this leak of the Alpa 850 - 24MP, 3FPS, 35mm format.

Rumoured price: $1999US.

Oh, and that covershot of the manual? Click on it to download the leaked manual.

[Supernaut]

As I see it, this might be what the general market will end up at in a few years:

Low end: Lower spec aps-c

Mid class: Both high spec bodies with aps-c and low spec FF from the major brands. We will be able to choose fast fps and lots of features but a smaller sensor or a slower/simpler camera with FF sensor,

High end: High spec bodies FF (obviosly)

[thibs]

First, if you are interested in this camera then you should know (for long) that it will not be available everywhere... in fact, only in Japan. It will be a "limited" camera. Of course you'll have the possibility to order it but at a cost.

Has been denied by some reps already.

Secondly, thoug Pentax can try to make it weathersealed , this is still primarily a studio camera simply because of its size... and we know nothing yet about its iso capacity. Most of the current digital medium formats are limited to something like 1600 iso if not 800...

645 was popular for its portability (for a medium format) and widely used for landscape works on top of studio works. In either solution, I don't see how a high ISO performance is of any real concern.

I can remember an interview from a Pentax executive at the time when they put the 645D project aside. He said they had doubts on who would be able to buy such a camera if they released it.... I guess they managed to make it a little cheaper now but it will certainly not be affordable... not at all.

If later they re-announced it, somehow they have changed their mind so... what's your point?

In fact this camera is meant for clients working in fashion or advertisement.

Not only.

It is not a response to the 2000 $$ 35mm fullframes. There is no response to the 35mm fullframes.

Yes and no, it is aresponse it terms of marketing, 'Look we are a serious brands' but not directly to fullFrame, clearly. It really depends on the market enta decides to go for but I have my little idea about that...

[Jazzyboy]

Whatever... Anyway all that I'm expecting from Hoya from now on is the release of the rumored smc coated Pentax crystal ball; nothing else.

[Adrian Owerko]

My view is that Hoya need a Patnership with a sensor making company.. Or better still Buy One.. So they can compete with Olympus & Fuji in the Medical imaging business. Were Oly has 50% of the market.. Hoya wanted Pentax for Medical imaging! If Hoya can make there own sensors for the Medical stuff.. Why would they go and then sell off the Dslr part of the business?

[MikePerham]

My view is that Hoya need a Patnership with a sensor making company.. Or better still Buy One.. So they can compete with Olympus & Fuji in the Medical imaging business. Were Oly has 50% of the market.. Hoya wanted Pentax for Medical imaging! If Hoya can make there own sensors for the Medical stuff.. Why would they go and then sell off the Dslr part of the business?

Good point! However, would this mean that Hoya has to buy a division of some company, for instance Fuji? I think most manufactures of sensors are large companies that have a broader product line... for instance Sony or Samsung. Even Kodak and Fuji do more than just manufacture sensors. Or are we just talking about some sort of contractual relationship other than ownership?

[nosnoop]

FF is not necessary because Pentax doesn't offer one is what I'm reading between the lines. I say rubbish.

You can say whatever you want. The fact is that a FF camera would do nothing to increase Pentax market share, and it would not happen in the foreseeable future.

[X Man]

You can say whatever you want. The fact is that a FF camera would do nothing to increase Pentax market share, and it would not happen in the foreseeable future.

Nothing Pentax does is going to increase their market share enough to make Nikon or Canon raise as much as an eyebrow. You know it, I know it... Everybody knows it.

So, "market share" is not a battle that Pentax should even engage in. It's only one metric and because we live in a Dell, Microsoft, Wal-Mart world it's often overly obsessed about. Profitability is what Pentax as a company, needs to be concerned with and these types of announcements along with things like the price increases prove they are.

Sony sold CCD sensors to Pentax before Pentax went CMOS. Perhaps after Sony announces their sub-$2,000 FF body, Pentax can buy some of those sensors maybe next year, and put out their own FF camera.

FF is a smaller pond with less competition and a greater potential for profit IMO. There's a lot of legacy lenses and users waiting.

Regards,
Mike

Nothing Pentax does is going to increase their market share enough to make Nikon or Canon raise as much as an eyebrow. You know it, I know it... Everybody knows it.

I don't know it and neither seems Olympus or Panasonic for that matter when they launch desirable smaller models on the market with great success in sales. You don't seem to understand that the current strength of canikon is also their Achile's heel in the close future if the smaller players are determined and ready to fight. Canikon has more models than optimal (IMO) in their range (and a blend of older and new sold together) and since they compete with each other on the higher spectrum of the range (i.e. semipro APS-C and FF) they deliberately dumb down too much their entry level cameras. I can bet K-m2 which is just weeks from announcement will give a serious run for its money to the brand new Nikon D3000 for example (not in absolute but relative percentages of sales). So, no Pentax (and the rest of the smaller guys for that matter) can affect the market share of canikon enough that they *notice* it.

So, "market share" is not a battle that Pentax should even engage in. It's only one metric and because we live in a Dell, Microsoft, Wal-Mart world it's often overly obsessed about. Profitability is what Pentax as a company, needs to be concerned with and these types of announcements along with things like the price increases prove they are.

Almost all the time *more* means *cost effective* and if Pentax switches fast to the new electronics (Prime 2, new metering, new AF system) and models the future camera accordingly to the Hoya strategy of small, tough and rugged they can be self sustainable in the near future. Don't forget that Hoya wants 10% of the market and considering the traditional abysmal performance in the States that means very solid market share in Japan and Europe.

Sony sold CCD sensors to Pentax before Pentax went CMOS. Perhaps after Sony announces their sub-$2,000 FF body, Pentax can buy some of those sensors maybe next year, and put out their own FF camera.

2 things: Sony at that time was only a sensor maker and not both a sensor and a camera maker like today. Secondly the sensor is one of the most important piece of the camera (even a camera differentiator) and I really don't think that Sony wants to do any favors to Pentax. Do you?

FF is a smaller pond with less competition and a greater potential for profit IMO. There's a lot of legacy lenses and users waiting.

Exactly and you just wrote above that your hope is that Sony will forfeit its (maybe) sole advantage it has right now (the access to a FF sensor) and make things harder for themselves in taking as much as possible from that easier to reach market. And about the *legacy users* that is a never ending discussion and either way Pentax cannot win.

Regards,
Mike

Regards,
Radu

[GaryM]

FF is a smaller pond with less competition and a greater potential for profit IMO. There's a lot of legacy lenses and users waiting.

The problem isn't with legacy lenses, it is that Pentax currently has high-end lenses that would not work, or be compromised, on a FF body. The DA Limiteds, and some of the DA* zooms, would drop into an unmarketable niche. For Pentax to go full frame, they're going to have to transition these lenses into designs and focal lengths that work, and make sense, on a full-frame body. You cannot have high-end APS-C lenses and high-end FF lenses in the same lineup without creating a lot of marketing confusion. When/if Pentax releases a FF body, that will be the perceived high-end, and where the expensive quality glass will have to be aimed. They cannot build a system that is primarily sustained by legacy glass, it's just not economically viable.

[vinzer]

2 things: Sony at that time was only a sensor maker and not both a sensor and a camera maker like today. Secondly the sensor is one of the most important piece of the camera (even a camera differentiator) and I really don't think that Sony wants to do any favors to Pentax. Do you?

They're still selling sensors to Nikon (both APS-C and 35mm) and Pentax (for the K-m), even when they have APS-C and 35mm DSLRs on the market. The DSLR and semiconductor departments operate independently, and they do what they have to in order to register profits for their own departments.

It depends solely on Pentax if they want to source sensors from Sony again, as Sony is still selling their sensors to anyone who wants it.

[ricardobeat]

I did recognise it. The Mac is king in the recording industry, I've said before, if you read my previous posts.

That's about it, though. Minor roles in web design, flash coding and animation, even a bit of 3D. Keynote might be better than Powerpoint, but in my opinion that's like saying gonorrhea is better than syphilis. (Note on anyone using any slideshow software: Do Not. Use. The. Animations.)

Really? Have you ever put your feet in an ad agency, design or graphics/illustration or movie studio? Macs find their place there for very good reasons: OSX is way more stable than windows will ever be, it comes with very capable software from the box, it has effective color management and great hardware, including high quality IPS panels, all packed in a tight and good-looking form. It's made to work. The sleek UI improves productivity, it's not for the looks - what you say just goes to show that you never used it.

Absolutely, Windows takes time to set up, tweak, and protect. It's more like outfitting a 4WD to take you across the Sahara, whereas Macs only need to take you to the shops and back. Indeed, I'd say the lack of virii, trojans, etc, are a testament to its market share.

you don't have a clue. please, why are you even arguing over this subject? everybody has already said apple+pentax is a bad idea, thanks for coming in.