Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
08-25-2009, 09:21 PM   #151
Veteran Member
jeffkrol's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wisconsin USA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,434
Not taking sides

But the "graphics" thing really has nothing to do w/ MAC stability. More to do w/ the entrenched software base w/ Adobe..... At a few junctures this could have gone all windows way..word processing and databases are also not much of a Mac forte... Luck of the draw mostly. And anyone can buy an IPS panel and many would still prefer a CRT for color monitors....
BTW: Corel Draw is arguably more "user friendly" than Adobe ever was...

08-26-2009, 01:07 AM   #152
Banned




Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H.
Posts: 5,979
damn why does everything turn into apple vs. microsoft?
08-26-2009, 02:17 AM   #153
Pentaxian
thibs's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Belgium
Photos: Albums
Posts: 5,161
QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
They're still selling sensors to Nikon (both APS-C and 35mm) and Pentax (for the K-m), even when they have APS-C and 35mm DSLRs on the market. The DSLR and semiconductor departments operate independently, and they do what they have to in order to register profits for their own departments.

It depends solely on Pentax if they want to source sensors from Sony again, as Sony is still selling their sensors to anyone who wants it.
Thte problem is not if Sony wants to sell their sensors to Pentax.
The problem is WHEN they will agree to do so. Even when Sony was only a sensor manufacturer, Nikon was getting their sensors at least 6 months before Pentax. Nikon did secure an exclusivity deal with Sony. Simple as that.

Now, Nikon got a couple sensors themselves (at least officially those are Nikon sensors, read D3) and Sony is a camera manufacturer as well.

You really wanna Pentax being 1 year late with each new Sony sensor?
08-26-2009, 02:48 AM   #154
Veteran Member
Ben_Edict's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SouthWest "Regio"
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,303
Sorry, but your rant against Apple provoces me to answer a few lines, which I selectively quote:

QuoteOriginally posted by lithos Quote
Thing is, you're coming at this from a consumer electronics angle, not from a camera angle. I'd rather Pentax stay a camera brand, not a consumer electronics brand.

You seem to contradict yourself: you claim that Pentax's heritage is worthless, yet that Samsung could use that heritage as a basis for its own line of marketing, like what Panasonic did with Leica.
As we all know, the CE market is much bigger than the pure camera market and it is a sensible decision to establish a strong brand in the CE market. Where is the problem?

QuoteOriginally posted by lithos Quote
Few things are as big as Leica in the photographic world. Hell, they invented 35mm photography. They're the grandfather of pretty much all that has come since. It was almost a household name as far as quality cameras were concerned (few households, however, had reason to talk seriously about cameras, so it was never gonna get quite as common as, say, Band-Aid. You know what I mean.)

No way in hell could Samsung pull that off with Pentax. As you said, Pentax is a rather small fish - don't think I don't know that. I can think of one other forum who've I've argued that point with (incidentally, he blocked me, as I was rather...glib, shall we say, in my response to his idea that Pentax should be the "brand for those who're better than everyone else." Since he blocked me, let me take this opportunity to say "Hi, *isteve!")

It was quite a coup for Panasonic and Leica, since Leica had little experience in microelectronics compared to just about any Japanese company one could care to name. However, none of the Panasonic lenses are made in Germany (and discerning Leicanuts know that - that's what caused Leica to make the Summarit line.) Leica's one helluva badge to have. It's like, say, Toyota having the rights to the BMW name.

With Samsung using the Pentax name, it would be more like Hyundai having rights to the Nissan name...
In some respects you are quite right, I personally think. The Pentax brand won't be of any help to Samsung in the CE market. But it could make Samsungs impact into the pure photographic market much faster, if they'ld used Pentax. Pentax may be fairly enigmatic to typical CE customers, but inside the photo community it is still a brand.

QuoteOriginally posted by lithos Quote
As a computing company, they're got a tiny slice of market. Computers are what they started out doing, and in a market sense, bugger-all people use them. About the only market they've cornered is audio engineering. Everything else is PC (or supercomputers, but that's sorta out of the scope of what we're talking about.)
Nevertheless they faired and fair very well econonomically ever since they concentrated onto what they can do best: developping and marketing higher end computers, which have a brand appeal on top. Anyway, I have yet to see a single marketing/advertising/communications etc. agancy (all not audio related), that would not rely on Macs. They have only a niche market, but have created a strong brand loyalty. No company is able to do that, if it does not provide some advantages to its customers.

QuoteOriginally posted by lithos Quote
They're famous for under-functional, yet over-priced, audio players. They're famous as a fashion accessory, when you break it down. There's nothing an iPod can do that my Samsung T10 can't do (or I would want it to do.)
They are famous for connecting a strong and valuable brand with a leading user experience. This is not only a question of what is possible to do technically. If that was the case, we would all be using UNIX text interfaces, because you can do everything WIndows can or Mac OS X can, that way.

QuoteOriginally posted by lithos Quote
The iPhone involved zero end-user choice, outdated technology at launch, all paired with a high price.
The iPhone is a new product type, bringinbg lifestyle, design and user experience into an otherwise completely broing market, the mobile phone market. What's bad about that?

QuoteOriginally posted by lithos Quote
It'd be like Hoya making cameras no one cares about, but making the most popular damn filters in the world...waitaminute. It's not doing much god for Pentax, is it?
What you seem to want to say is, that it wouldn't be much help for Pentax to be taken over by Apple. I agree. But Apple would never take over Pentax anyway, because the product philosophies could hardly be farther apart...

QuoteOriginally posted by lithos Quote
Again: what exactly do Apple do? They sell an image, not any products worth anything as near as much as they advertise and sell for.

Everyone wants a Mac, sure, but most don't know what for. Most avoid 'em once they see the price/performance ratio.
The price/performance ratio of Macs is ecellent - as many independent studies emphasize. There was only one recent "study" that seemed to show the better price/performance ratio of Windows - and that was (as was eveident later) paid for by Microsoft.

Macs may cost a bit more initially, but not only get you more out of the box (the iLife applicationsfor instance), but you have much lower TCO over the (longer) lieftime of Macs. And as any IT person knows, 80% of cost is incurred during the lifetime of the product.

In about 16 years or so of using Macs in my office (and yes, also a Windows machine as a refernce), I only once(!) had to ask for networking support.

QuoteOriginally posted by lithos Quote
Besides, what's the most popular piece of Mac software after the operating system? Microsoft Office 2008. Maybe Pentax should just licence the EF mount.
Is that a surprise? Microsoft Office is an original development for Mac! I still have the box of Word for Mac 3.0. Only later was it released for Microsoft's own OS.

QuoteOriginally posted by lithos Quote
The UI indeed would be slick. Apple's good at that. But it'd be slick Just For The Sake Of Being Slick™. Or, to put it another way, it'd be like pissing into the wind.
That may be your feeling. My personal experience is quite different: Macs simply work. Networking is a treat, with no mysteries involved etc...

QuoteOriginally posted by lithos Quote
The only reason Apple continues to post profits is that it's a luxury good, a cult item. It does well because every time Jobs' malfunctioning kidneys cause a cranberry-tinged trickle of urine to leak from his body, there're a bunch of shallow, over-monied hipsters waiting outside the iStore to buy iJars of iUrine with iBlood.
Sorry, do you mean that in any way serious?

Ben

08-26-2009, 02:54 AM   #155
Banned




Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H.
Posts: 5,979
QuoteQuote:
That may be your feeling. My personal experience is quite different: Macs simply work. Networking is a treat, with no mysteries involved etc...
say what you will but windows 7 delivers the same thing.
08-26-2009, 02:58 AM   #156
Veteran Member
Ben_Edict's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SouthWest "Regio"
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,303
QuoteOriginally posted by Jazzyboy Quote

Sorry but you are dreaming and I must say that I find it unbelievable that some pentaxians still think that the 645D (project) is the Pentax response to full frames from the concurrence ( Even if it was so, it would be the most inadequate response they could ever find).
First, if you are interested in this camera then you should know (for long) that it will not be available everywhere... in fact, only in Japan. It will be a "limited" camera. Of course you'll have the possibility to order it but at a cost.

Secondly, thoug Pentax can try to make it weathersealed , this is still primarily a studio camera simply because of its size... and we know nothing yet about its iso capacity. Most of the current digital medium formats are limited to something like 1600 iso if not 800...

And finally, I don't know where you got your information concerning the price but beleive me, it will be moooooore than "slightly" a higher price than the fullframes (35mm fullframes) from the others. I can remember an interview from a Pentax executive at the time when they put the 645D project aside. He said they had doubts on who would be able to buy such a camera if they released it.... I guess they managed to make it a little cheaper now but it will certainly not be affordable... not at all.

In fact this camera is meant for clients working in fashion or advertisement, etc... It is not a response to the 2000 $$ 35mm fullframes. There is no response to the 35mm fullframes.
The Pentax 645D will make the silent exit from the market, after the limited availability project, all the other Pentax digital 645 endeavours have made. Pentax's develeopmet cycle is far too slow to compete on the digital medium format market.

This market is very small, being under pressure from full-frame 35mm DSLRs and from high-end digital backs. No wonder, that there are basically only two players are left by now, PhaseOne and Hasselblad - and Hasselblad struggles heavily, as their massive price reduction underlines.

I know, how digital medium format is sold over here. It needs a strong and expensive sales force. Pentax does not have that and I cannot see, how they will invest there. The contrary is true, as they have cut-down on cost in Europe massively, despite the European market seems to be stronger for them, as the US market.

It would (that is at least my opinion) much more sensible to make for once clear, that Pentax gives up the medium format DSLR business and concentrates on prosumer DSLRs. That would hopefully free development and production ressources to shorten innovation cycles in the APS DSLR segement and we could perhaps get a high-end APS-H camera, which would be a more sensible proposition, as the DA lenses would still be able to fill that frame).

Ben
08-26-2009, 05:13 AM   #157
Veteran Member
Ben_Edict's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SouthWest "Regio"
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,303
QuoteOriginally posted by séamuis Quote
say what you will but windows 7 delivers the same thing.
good to hear - just that Mac OS X has been delivering that for years...

Ben
08-26-2009, 07:45 AM   #158
Veteran Member




Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Iowa
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,368
QuoteOriginally posted by séamuis Quote
damn why does everything turn into apple vs. microsoft?
I would just like to register my admiration for this thread.

It started with someone citing a news item that Hoya wants to make Pentax profitable (optimistic)

Then it transitioned to people worrying about what an alliance means to Pentax's future, most speculating that this meant the demise of the brand. (pessimistic)

Then people began to talk about possible alliances for Pentax and somehow that has transitioned into an epic debate (I'm sure there have been much longer ones) on the merits of Apple computers.

The Internet is a strange and wonderful thing.

08-26-2009, 10:57 AM   #159
Senior Member




Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Chicago/Cleveland
Posts: 176
QuoteOriginally posted by séamuis Quote
damn why does everything turn into apple vs. microsoft?
This isn't to attack anyone in this thread, but rather the world as a whole. Everything turns into Apple vs. Microsoft because there are a lot of dumb computer users that feel they need to justify their investment.

Notice I said computer users. Not Mac users, not Windows users, but computer users. There is an equal ratio of dumb people who pledge allegiance to both brands. At the end of they day, they're just hunks of silicon filled plastic with an equal number of pros, and equal number of cons, and for some reason, an equal number of fanboys (contrary to popular belief, Apple does not have more fanboys than Microsoft, they just tend to be heavily concentrated in certain areas).

I prefer to use a Mac, and why should anyone care about that? I don't care if the guy next to me is using a Mac, a Windows PC, Linux, IBM OS/2, or MS DOS. Now if he/she is shooting Nikon on the other hand...
08-26-2009, 11:16 AM   #160
Banned




Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H.
Posts: 5,979
QuoteOriginally posted by PeteyJ Quote
This isn't to attack anyone in this thread, but rather the world as a whole. Everything turns into Apple vs. Microsoft because there are a lot of dumb computer users that feel they need to justify their investment.

Notice I said computer users. Not Mac users, not Windows users, but computer users. There is an equal ratio of dumb people who pledge allegiance to both brands. At the end of they day, they're just hunks of silicon filled plastic with an equal number of pros, and equal number of cons, and for some reason, an equal number of fanboys (contrary to popular belief, Apple does not have more fanboys than Microsoft, they just tend to be heavily concentrated in certain areas).

I prefer to use a Mac, and why should anyone care about that? I don't care if the guy next to me is using a Mac, a Windows PC, Linux, IBM OS/2, or MS DOS. Now if he/she is shooting Nikon on the other hand...
whats wrong with nikon?
08-26-2009, 07:05 PM   #161
Senior Member




Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Chicago/Cleveland
Posts: 176
QuoteOriginally posted by séamuis Quote
whats wrong with nikon?
It was more of a joke than anything. We are on a Pentax forum after all.
08-26-2009, 11:04 PM   #162
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 317
QuoteOriginally posted by séamuis Quote
whats wrong with nikon?
ummmm ... EVERYTHING.
07-06-2010, 02:32 PM   #163
Pentaxian
Pål Jensen's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Norway
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,064
QuoteOriginally posted by Ben_Edict Quote
The Pentax 645D will make the silent exit from the market, after the limited availability project, all the other Pentax digital 645 endeavours have made. Pentax's develeopmet cycle is far too slow to compete on the digital medium format market.
Talk about being wrong!
07-10-2010, 01:29 PM   #164
Veteran Member
Ben_Edict's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SouthWest "Regio"
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,303
QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Talk about being wrong!
You have seen, that my remark is nearly 1 year old? At that time this was still a possibility. Also, I am not sure even now, whether the camera will carve out a viable niche in the market. It is still not available in Euope and has to be ordered from Japan directly - with all the uncertainties and hassles... At least it is not the kind of vapourware, the first releases were, which is encouraging.

Ben
07-13-2010, 04:25 AM   #165
Veteran Member
ghelary's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Paris, France
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 617
QuoteOriginally posted by Ben_Edict Quote
You have seen, that my remark is nearly 1 year old? At that time this was still a possibility. Also, I am not sure even now, whether the camera will carve out a viable niche in the market. It is still not available in Euope and has to be ordered from Japan directly - with all the uncertainties and hassles... At least it is not the kind of vapourware, the first releases were, which is encouraging.

Ben
Well, the camera have been presented on a dedicated MF show last month in Paris,where it was the star of the show. Pentax would never have presented this camera if they didn't intend to sell those in Europe. And the official sources that I could read (interviews) have been consistent with that. The 645D will be launched somewhere in 2010 in Europe, when will depend on sales in Japan since apparently the camera is selling much better than expected. I believe the bottleneck is Kodak as they certainly didn't a MF sensor in such quantities before.

My opinion is that while Hoya/Pentax communication is rare is and not very detailed, they always have been very faithfull to their word. There's no exegesis needed to interpret it. When they say we launch 645D, they do, when they say we won't release FF because we don't have ressources, I believe them too.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
hoya, pentax, pentax news, pentax rumors
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
HOYA: 1 easy step to succe$$ - Make an iPad-friendly body Unsinkable II Pentax News and Rumors 110 09-18-2010 05:38 AM
Hoya/Pentax and 2010 - BIG speculation. ogl Pentax News and Rumors 212 07-26-2010 06:09 AM
Pentax posts a profit. JonPB Pentax News and Rumors 6 11-03-2009 06:18 PM
HOYA CEO admits not keeping Pentax camera division in the HOYA group? yakiniku Pentax News and Rumors 61 10-18-2009 02:15 PM
Japanese interview with Pentax/Hoya MrApollinax Pentax News and Rumors 1 03-09-2009 06:47 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:42 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top