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08-18-2009, 08:03 AM   #16
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My first K Mount dslrs are identical clones

I too found this odd at the time that Samsung made identical Pentax DS2 clones, but having Samsung Dslrs inhand certainly made talking to The Samsung Rep far more Interesting for me. Well thats back when there was a Samsung Rep in local market and back then Samsung was assumed to be Buyer of Pentax Corp. However, Japanese companies like selling their homemarket companies to other Japanese companies. Samsung being allowed to buy Pentax Corp would have never been approved.

QuoteOriginally posted by Urkeldaedalus Quote
A closer alliance would really benefit both companies. It has always seemed silly to me that Samsung would release cloned versions of the same cameras.


08-18-2009, 08:32 AM   #17
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It's no cause for alarm to publicly recognize the realities of the market - smaller camera makers are struggling to compete with the giants due to the lack of economy of scale. When vaunted brands like Hasselblad and Leica are struggling, you know that the ground beneath the entire industry has quaked.

What Pentax needs is a partner that will help bring some of that scale - in product line, in marketing, in distribution, in sales channel, etc... With that in mind, another small/niche player like Fuji won't likely help.

Samsung might have helped, but that didn't work out IMHO because it didn't open Pentax to new markets.

What needs to be asked is - what does Pentax bring to the table? Objectively, a small but not significantly differentiated product line, skills in designing nice glass (primarily primes), a brand name that means something to a diminishing group of people (new camera enthusiasts don't know the heritage), and a well-established K-mount (again, not critical to new camera enthusiasts).

What alliances might work???

Kodak? Maybe. Another iconic but diminished brand. But they have much stronger US distribution than Pentax, and a product line that could be a nice complement to Pentax dSLRs.

Leica/Hasselblad? Not really. Smaller even than Pentax, and struggling even more.

Apple? Hmmmm... Imagine a line of prosumer cameras (above the iPhone cam) with an elegant Apple UI and seemless integration with iPhoto? Imagine a workflow from a Pentax dSLR into iPhoto and Aperture? Imagine going into an Apple store to play with a Pentax.

Ok, someone wake me up. I must be dreaming LOL!
08-18-2009, 09:29 AM   #18
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QuoteQuote:
Apple? Hmmmm... Imagine a line of prosumer cameras (above the iPhone cam) with an elegant Apple UI and seemless integration with iPhoto? Imagine a workflow from a Pentax dSLR into iPhoto and Aperture? Imagine going into an Apple store to play with a Pentax.

Ok, someone wake me up. I must be dreaming LOL!
AAAA... aaaa.. man your'e scaring me. I see pentax as a niche, but god, not that kind of niche.
Apple. They'd request DSLR with prioperitary upload software, built in LiIon and some 8Gb flash you cannot change, make the whole back a touch screen (including the rear e-dial) and call the beast something like i-Tax or i-Shot. I think you can imagine the rest.

Regarding the distribution. Kodak and Fuji are good options because they are strong at everything other than DSLR's. They produce sensors, electronics, have broad selection of P&S. I'd say Fuji even makes ones of the best affordable point and shoots. Fuji have their photo labs all over the place. Imagine each of them having few Pentax DSLR's on show, complementing those P&S they have.
08-18-2009, 09:34 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by ytterbium Quote
AAAA... aaaa.. man your'e scaring me. I see pentax as a niche, but god, not that kind of niche.
Apple. They'd request DSLR with prioperitary upload software, built in LiIon and some 8Gb flash you cannot change, make the whole back a touch screen (including the rear e-dial) and call the beast something like i-Tax or i-Shot. I think you can imagine the rest.

Regarding the distribution. Kodak and Fuji are good options because they are strong at everything other than DSLR's. They produce sensors, electronics, have broad selection of P&S. I'd say Fuji even makes ones of the best affordable point and shoots. Fuji have their photo labs all over the place. Imagine each of them having few Pentax DSLR's on show, complementing those P&S they have.
LOL the Pentax iOptics Touch

08-18-2009, 10:32 AM   #20
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Ha ha haa... Funny. Really. At least Apple is profitable and highly regarded. Apple alliance with Pentax. There'd be no point, for Apple.

Kodak, hmm Pentax should just forget the P&S camera IMO. I don't care if the idea is a "gateway" to a DSLR or not. Too much competition and they just drown in the flood of products from dozens of manufacturers. Besides, Kodak is the epitome of a massive failure. They managed to go from hero to zero and destroyed probably the best known name in cameras, ever. That's some mad managin' skillz.

Fuji would be OK, if they weren't on the brink of failure themselves, hemorrhaging massive amounts of cash.

Fujifilm April-June Pretax Profit Probably Fell 96%, Nikkei Says - Bloomberg.com

Samsung is by far the most stable and strong available player out there. Perhaps this is an attempt by Pentax to rattle Samsung's cage and try and bring them back into the fold.

Either way, I don't see anything wrong with a goal of profit in a business sense.

Regards,
Mike
08-18-2009, 12:39 PM   #21
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I could imagine Samsung buying Pentax and then pulling a Sony - the Pentax name would disappear but the technology and products would live on.

Some might say that Sony hasn't been that successful, but they are the number 3 name right now - not bad for a few years. If they bring out inexpensive full-frame to complement their sexy zeiss glass I think they'll be getting a lot more market share.

It would be a bummer to see the Pentax name go, but I'd rather see the name change to Samsung than see k-mount die out entirely.
08-18-2009, 01:09 PM   #22
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I think Olympus could be a nice choice.

Concerning SLR, Olympus is on a strange way with their 4/3. Think about Canon, Nikon and Sony with their FF.

On the other hand 4/3 or micro 4/3 could be an interesting segment of the future.

A merged company Olypax could have their P/S, their micro 4/3 like the Pen, and SLRs without the restrictions of the 4/3 if they concentrate on the k-mount.

As far as I know both companies are comparable concerning their medical and optical business. Their both two old japanese companies. Their both small if you compare them with Canikon and Sony, which could be a problem today if you think about development costs. Olypax would probably better compete with canikon if you think about financial aspects.

Wolfgang
08-18-2009, 01:16 PM   #23
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Samsungmay have no choise

Samsung may really not have a choice. their point and shoot reputation is really good (image quality aside, I think their cameras are amongs the best designed and functionally unique). But their DSLR cred is really terrible. If they want both ends of the market, then the Pentax name is there for the taking it sounds like.
There are other companies that Pentax could be interested in partnering with.

Philips, (maker of the Pentax full frame sensor in the prototype K1)
Kodak, (maker of their prototype 645D)
Fuji, (not liklely as they are part of Mitsubishi group...... who also has NIKON)
Toshiba, (a Semiconducter partner maybe)

08-18-2009, 01:58 PM   #24
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Guys, you are strange.
Today only rare companies build P&S or DSLR on their own (despite all that they say).
Even years ago I wrote hack for Nikon P&S that was completely manufactured for Nikon by Sanyo (it was largest P&S OEM manufacturer at that data) :-)
Current Samsung(and many others) cameras use extremely popular Panasonic CCD sensors and ADCs(with ability to shoot movies in HD).
Samsung and Pentax use Fujifilm LSI chips (as well as Nikon).
Real guys in this business who can do most things themselfs - Panasonic(Matsushita), Sony and Canon.
08-18-2009, 02:10 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
Like an attachable grip with a second shutter release for easier vertical shots.
Actually the second shutter button is on the body and the grip is just a bit of ergonomic plastic. Still a pretty interesting idea.

Thank you
Russell
08-18-2009, 02:33 PM   #26
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The 2nd button is on the camera. Thanks

I thought the vertical release was on the grip. Still nice to have the 2nd release, & better yet built into the body. Heres the Kodak link:

KODAK EASYSHARE Z980 Digital Camera

& here's the Pentax X70 clone which also lacks a hotshoe:

http://www.pentaximaging.com/digital-camera/X70/

QuoteOriginally posted by Russell-Evans Quote
Actually the second shutter button is on the body and the grip is just a bit of ergonomic plastic. Still a pretty interesting idea.

Thank you
Russell

Last edited by Samsungian; 08-18-2009 at 02:47 PM.
08-18-2009, 02:38 PM   #27
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Honeywell.......

again...
08-18-2009, 03:21 PM   #28
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Hoya Pentax, Bring to the table in a partnership.. Optical glass, Hoya is one of the world's largest producers of optical glass. If Hoya Pentax were in a partnership with lets say Fuji.. They could supply them with the best glass, for there P&S camera's and Medical imaging products.


"Real guys in this business who can do most things themselfs - Panasonic(Matsushita), Sony and Canon." ?
Were do these guys get optical glass from?
08-18-2009, 07:51 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adrian Owerko Quote
Hoya Pentax, Bring to the table in a partnership.. Optical glass, Hoya is one of the world's largest producers of optical glass. If Hoya Pentax were in a partnership with lets say Fuji.. They could supply them with the best glass, for there P&S camera's and Medical imaging products.


"Real guys in this business who can do most things themselfs - Panasonic(Matsushita), Sony and Canon." ?
Were do these guys get optical glass from?
Firstly if Hoya were seriously thinking they would really grow the Pentax brand they could have continued making teleconverters and extension tubes, 80-400 zooms, 80-200mm f/2.8 zooms and the like to augment the sales of the Pentax DSLRs. They simply would need to check the marketplace here, ebay or in the other lens manufacturer's catalogs to notice the dearth of such add-ons. Try finding a Pentax branded UV filter on their site. Even Sony offers UV and CPL filters. As a photo retailer I can assure you that in such accessories lies some real money.

Secondly you don't even want to ask Canon where they get their optical glass. In many of their L lenses they offer flourite lens elements. This excellent naturally occuring crystals used to make amazing lenses with great hardness just does not grow in sizes necessary for Canon to get a harvestto sustain serious production. Their solution was to reach deep into their pockets and create an artificial envrionment where they can control the growth of flourite to have predictable harvests to make the bigger lens elements in greater quantity. If they have the coin to outproduce mother nature, what would stop them from producing run of the mill optical glass?

Lastly would it seem so far fetched for Sigma to grab the Pentax mount? They already have a bigger assortment of lenses than Pentax and the other third party lens manufacturers in the K mount. They have an "interesting" sensor technology and in market share Pentax is to Sigma what Canon is to Pentax. Don't you think the guys who thought up the foveon chip would love to see their technology in more cameras than Sigma has sold? Oh, and doesn't Sigma make a nice variety of full-frame lenses?

DS
08-18-2009, 08:12 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zav Quote
Alliance with Fuji would been awesome! Gimme one of those Super CCD sensors raaaaaaaah!
Fuji is the company that Pentax needs to be in bed with .. With Fuji's great low noise-high ISO ability it would put Pentax at the top.

No one has the high ISO - low noise down like Fuji.

Kodak is fine for larger sensors but there high ISO's suck and suck bad ... if Pentax went with Kodak, I feel it would be the end of Pentax.

I want great ISO 3200 and above, along with great DR ... something Fuji can produce in a APS-C sensor.


wll
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