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08-18-2009, 09:58 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by tomele Quote
I think it's not good....
If this press release uses the common "Investors Relations"-type language, this means "don't worry, we won't keep this loss-making business and will do whatever it takes, from merging it to selling it to whomever is ready to pay a decent price for it".
My bet is on a buyout by Samsung, who have both the money and the strategic interest.
I think this makes a lot of sense. One has to ask why they put out this announcement at all. Surely they don't need a public announcement to call around and talk to various CEOs of Kodak and Fuji to see if there is any interest.

1. One possibility of the announcement is to let the Japanese authorities know that Pentax needs to be sold off, even if that means selling to Samsung. Its a way of letting the general public know how serious the situation is.

2. Samsung's position might be: Why put any money into Pentax, such as future sensor development efforts, unless we own a big part of that company. Pentax's announcment is another way of officially allowing Samsung to broach the idea to their shareholders.

There is some goal in mind to issue an announcement like this, and i don't think its merely to let the business world know what's going on.

08-18-2009, 10:10 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adrian Owerko Quote
FUJIFILM Microdevices... Since Fuji have decided to get out of Dslr's?
A Fuji/Pentax alliance strikes me as being reminiscent of the Konica/Minolta merger.
08-18-2009, 11:49 PM   #33
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Sorry for this question but I would like to know : Does Panasonic own Olympus ? or is Olympus still independant ?
08-19-2009, 01:00 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adrian Owerko Quote
Looks like Hoya has faith in PENTAX

"digital camera business needs to seek alliances for survival in the long term"
Pentax Samsung is the love over?

UPDATE 1-INTERVIEW-Hoya aims to turn Pentax profitable this year | Reuters
This recap ends, of course, with predictions of a demise for Pentax.

Hoya admits Pentax needs alliance in the long term to survive - 1001 Noisy Cameras

08-19-2009, 01:42 AM   #35
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Pentax is dead. Long live Pentax.
08-19-2009, 02:00 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jazzyboy Quote
Sorry for this question but I would like to know : Does Panasonic own Olympus ? or is Olympus still independant ?
Independent.
08-19-2009, 03:08 AM   #37
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Thanks.
Here in France Pentax is clearly in the third position even before Sony I guess, while Olympus is "nothing".
It's true that there are things I don't understand in Pentax strategy but it's always surprising for me to hear that Pentax is dead or will be dead tomorrow every morning while there is no such threat for Olympus. It even seems that they are in good health... No need to be bought by an electronics company.
I can't help thinking that as long as a company like Olympus will be standing on it's two feet, then Pentax will necessarily be alive too.
Can someone enligthen me : Are they really selling more than Pentax, are they really bigger ?

Last edited by Jazzyboy; 08-19-2009 at 03:20 AM.
08-19-2009, 06:23 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Apple? Hmmmm... Imagine a line of prosumer cameras (above the iPhone cam) with an elegant Apple UI and seemless integration with iPhoto? Imagine a workflow from a Pentax dSLR into iPhoto and Aperture? Imagine going into an Apple store to play with a Pentax.

Ok, someone wake me up. I must be dreaming LOL!
Oh **** no. No.

Pentax need more credibility. Not less.

Imagine this: imagine paying $3000US for a K-m. Imagine paying $700US for a kit lens.

Imagine even less functionality, replaced with marketing hype and cognitive dissonance. Imagine no mode dial, because giving users too much choice is like admitting the designers got it wrong.

Imagine having that washed-up hippie and borderline fascist Steve Jobs make the thing.

Imagine a series of products released with no real improvements in functionality - imagine quality, resolution, top shutter speeds, whatever - but being described as new and improved because they've now come in lime green.

I'm puzzled about the Samsung partnership, too. Doesn't seem like they're doing much - wasn't the partnership with Samsung made when Pentax was still independent, and there's no word on a GX7 being released any time soon.

Perhaps the relationship's stagnated...but I think it was stagnant already. Why release two cameras identical in every way save for the logo on the prism and the colour of the metallic ring on the lens? Sure, Panasonic gets away with rebranding their cams as Leicas, but that's because of Leica's status as a luxury item, and there're always people out there who'd buy a used condom if it had the red dot on it.

Except the Sammy/Pentax relationship was backwards - instead of the relatively unknown camera make rebadging cameras with the logo of a famous one, it's the famous camera maker rebadging cameras with the logo of a company who makes TVs.

Too be honest, and by honest, I mean devastating, I think Pentax needs a rather large shot in the arm. Sure, it can trundle along as is for a few years yet, maybe, but it's got to start competing on a much bigger level.

I think whoever (sorry, just skimmed the thread, please let me know who said it) the Sony-Minolta idea might have some merit.

Samsung should've bought Pentax, but with a few changes to the Sonolta model.

One, keep the Pentax brand. While Sony has, for years, loomed large in the minds of consumers for making good-quality, albeit overpriced, goods, Samsung doesn't have that image. So keep the brand of the fifty-year-old camera company, reassure shooters that it's making cameras, rather than trying to flog consumer electronics (Samsung make excellent consumer goods, but a camera is not a DVD player or a TV.)

Two, make sure you keep the people. Whatever the cost. The lens designers, the camera designers, the engineers who make the shutters and mirror assemblies. Pentax does excellent lenses (when they're making them themselves, those rebadged Tokinas simply dilute the brand and make people think, well, I can get that lens on a Canon or a Nikon, why bother?) However, if someone from Samsung can come up with a better AF system, or whatever, by all means give it a go. Sharing's still important.

Three: a full camera range. Consumer to advance amateur, to 35mm pro grade, with enough glass and accessories to complement each. Face it, a lot people start off small and look to go big, even if they never do. If there's no upgrade path, there's not many places to go. This give consumers room to grow, and rewards brand loyalty.

Four: play dirty. Naturally, this means marketing. Do what it takes, all that underhanded BS that passes off as "networking." Buy shelf space in stores. Have incentives for clerks to flog your gear - the T-shirt, the three day Pentax Camera Orientation in Tahiti, whatever. Full page ads, the most scantily clad booth babes at the expos (sad, but it works.) But, of course, it's all for nothing if there's not the good gear to back it up.

If Hoya can pull this off, all the better. Selling the company again, even to someone as close as Samsung, would mean more reshuffling, more time lost.

But you gotta spend money to make money, Hoya.

08-19-2009, 07:19 AM   #39
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Anyone else think that maybe the alliance will be on the glass side of things instead of the electronics side of things? Now hear me out, say the Samsung partnership is still viable and strong. That covers sensors and microelectronics and manufacturing. Design for the bodies and other accessories will be done by Pentax. The one piece that a lot of people are saying is missing in the current Pentax lineup is a full range of glass. Yes you can buy 30+ year old glass to use on any body but the argument against going FF is that the glass isn't there. The current line up is good but there are several percieved holes in the roadmap. What if say, Tokina, takes a larger role as a manufacturer of Pentax's lenses?

As a company the largest expense for products is engineering and R&D. Move some of that over to Tokina who can cover costs by selling optics to multiple vendors and have them design APS-C/FF glass for K-Mount. Manufacturing, coatings, testing and QC is already set and Pentax can now move forward with making a FF body...

just thinking/typing outloud here, I know Pentax was historically a Lens manufacturer so this may go against the grain with many here. The other option is that the body R&D/Engineering gets moved over completely to Samsung and Pentax becomes an elite Lens manufacturer like CZ offering optics for multiple vendors.
08-19-2009, 07:19 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by jct us101 Quote
Pentax is dead. Long live Pentax.
I wouldn't be so smug, I think Olympus is not doing so well. Took a look at the new Pen...very expensive for what seems more like a P+S, no matter what they say. No viewfinder except one clip on for the one of two lenses available or the LCD.

Shutter lag is intolerable.

The 4/3rds system doesn't have much of a draw and in my travels, I've seen one person this year with an Olympus DSLR. Many more Pentax DSLR's seem to be out there from my observations.
08-19-2009, 07:31 AM   #41
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One should also read the second update to the interview: UPDATE 2-INTERVIEW-Hoya to seek digital camera alliance

QuoteQuote:
Suzuki said Hoya's financial standing would allow him to spend up to 150 to 200 billion yen on mergers and acquisitions, but the timing is not quite right yet.

"There are multiple potential targets, but I'm not in a hurry," Suzuki said.

"Valuations in the M&A market are not really reflecting tough economic reality. I expect valuations to come down to reasonable levels if we hold back a little longer."
So, Pentax is not for sale? Instead hoya could buy a sensor manufacturer? Or even Canikonpanaolysonujiak...
08-19-2009, 07:47 AM   #42
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I gotta disagree with you on a couple of points, Lithos. While we may love the Pentax brand, and other, older photographers may respect it due to it's history in the 60s and 70s, outside of that small circle, there's very little recognition. To the average tech consumer or P&S camera buyer, Pentax means very little. And these are the people that, in addition to the current owners, Pentax needs to grab the attention of if they are to grow to a scale where they can thrive.

I hate to say this, but to the average tech consumer/P&S camera buyer, Samsung means more than Pentax. And I'd argue - in the US at least - that these days Samsung has more consumer electronics momentum than Sony. Samsung is basically Sony 2.0.

Think about the Panasonic/Leica relationship. Panasonic used the Leica brand and optics to build credibility among camera enthusiasts. It worked pretty well, as Panasonic is now considered an innovator in the field.

Samsung could easily do the same thing with Pentax. Sony's recent successes in dSLRs may eventually spur Samsung to take action, as they are rivals in every market they share. Samsung's challenges with getting the NX to market may be due to the global economic slump, but does it also point to the challenges they are having with getting the product right?

As for Apple, love them or hate them, they get a lot of attention for such a small brand, they have the ability to shift whole markets (MP3 players, smart phones, etc...), and the overall usability of their products is unmatched. And again, the Apple brand is much more recognized/respected among tech consumers than Pentax.
08-19-2009, 07:48 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by froeschle Quote
One should also read the second update to the interview: UPDATE 2-INTERVIEW-Hoya to seek digital camera alliance



So, Pentax is not for sale? Instead hoya could buy a sensor manufacturer? Or even Canikonpanaolysonujiak...

Makes more sense to me, really, it seems like no time to dump all the effort already put in just to try selling a camera company at the worst possible time. Even for corporate mentalities, it just wouldn't make sense.

If there's in fact a K200d replacement in the pipeline for this year, it seems that's the time for Pentax to start hitting the marketing, (and starting to expect some profits, maybe) .... when they've got a complete and current camera line to sell.
08-19-2009, 07:58 AM   #44
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Another update, with Amateur Photographer making a follow up call:

Pentax seeks alliance for 'long term survival' news - Amateur Photographer - news, camera reviews, lens reviews, camera equipment guides, photography courses, competitions, photography forums

QuoteQuote:
In response, a Pentax spokesman today told Amateur Photographer: 'The remark concerning the alliance with another company, as suggested by Hoya's CEO, was made in reference to one of many, possible long term business strategies.

'The statement does not refer to any specific ongoing activity. However, Hoya will continue to consider opportunities to best develop its individual business
units.'

Earlier this month Stephen Sanderson, product coordinator at Pentax UK's Imaging Systems Division told us that the relationship with Samsung is ongoing.
I think 2010 will be a big year to determine the future of of Pentax, for good or ill, and Hoya/Pentax is obviously still thinking about what direction to take things. It will be interesting to see what happens.
08-19-2009, 08:19 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by uccemebug Quote
A Fuji/Pentax alliance strikes me as being reminiscent of the Konica/Minolta merger.
Well said !

From the looks of things, Fujifilm is already out of the DLSR market, and they do not seem to be working on scaling their SuperCCD EXR technolody to a decent-sized sized (i.e. APS-C or larger).
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