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08-20-2009, 12:38 PM   #106
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I am not sure where all of this gloom and doom comes from. The interview sounded pretty straight forward. . . . . .
It's entirely straightforward. Paraphrased in colloquial "American", Suzuki's message is: Look, guys, we're playing in the same space with three really big dogs, whose resources we can't hope to match, so . . . . we plan to leverage our franchise with another player in order to generate the kind of returns that'll make the business sustainable long term. However, before we tackle the top line (revenue and growth) with a partner, we have to prepare the current business for an effective alliance by producing a positive bottom line - largely through cost cutting.

While Suzuki's story is hardly a happy one, neither is it ominous. In fact, the man appears to be refreshingly candid, wants to see the camera business prosper and has a plan to make it do so. I have no idea whether he'll succeed, but that doesn't stop me from having fun with photography.

Jer

08-20-2009, 03:30 PM   #107
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I wonder. If it is actually so that FF and uberpro stuff sales would be so miniscule, is it THAT hard to design and produce them in a very limited run. Just for the sake of having such cameras.
Not for any actual profit or large scale production. Just take a goddamn sony FF sensor, some older pentax film camera mirror/shutter assembly, remove SR flash and other space consumers from k20d and there you have it! .
And if there is actual demand and the thing catches up you could simply continue with it. If not there is at least that poetic upgrade path for those hardly researching entry level buyers, future potential for pentax doomers and something new and extraordinary to whine about for Rice.
08-20-2009, 05:04 PM   #108
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Aye, ytterbium. Pentax seem to be willing to take a rather longish punt on 645D, and if you think a 645-style camera's a less risky choice than a 35mm-formatted one...

I'm not asking for the uber-bleeding edge features like the Canon 1Ds or Nikon D3s.

For the love of god, though, I'll say this again: please stop Tokina making Pentax glass.
08-20-2009, 05:27 PM   #109
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QuoteOriginally posted by lithos Quote
For the love of god, though, I'll say this again: please stop Tokina making Pentax glass.
I must have missed the other times you've laid down this pearl of wisdom.

Why?

Tokina makes excellent lenses. A lot of companies make excellent lenses so I suppse Pentax could go with say, Cosina. Cosina makes lenses of all quality levels and they may be cheaper than Tokina.

Who should be making the lenses? Pentax? Look, they need to trim costs...

Regards,
Mike

08-20-2009, 07:52 PM   #110
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Lithos, correct me if I am wrong...

You are saying Tokina should stop making Pentax lenses that have Canikon mounts?

But they don't have the same coatings. But is that enough for people to but the pentax body so that they get the full Pentax lens sealed and with SMC?

At least the limiteds are Pentax mount only. Imagine a D700 with the 31 ltd? Wow.
08-21-2009, 12:55 AM   #111
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Pentax does not need alliance on glass.

They might be helped on:

* manufacturing (churning out more lenses/bodies faster)

* electronics

* sensors
08-21-2009, 01:24 AM   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by X Man Quote
I must have missed the other times you've laid down this pearl of wisdom.

Why?

Tokina makes excellent lenses. A lot of companies make excellent lenses so I suppse Pentax could go with say, Cosina. Cosina makes lenses of all quality levels and they may be cheaper than Tokina.

Who should be making the lenses? Pentax? Look, they need to trim costs...

Regards,
Mike
I concur. Of all the brands, Cosina seems to me the best company to work together with. Apart from the Zeiss and Voigtlander lenses, don't they also produce the nice Voigtlander Bessas? Cosina has a VERY strong foot in the manual focus market and a good name for excellent optical designs.
08-21-2009, 02:35 AM   #113
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KungPow, no, they should keep making lenses in the Canon and Nikon mounts. They just shouldn't do anything for Pentax. But if most every Pentax lens were available in F or EF mount...why bother buying a Pentax camera?

I agree with Thibs.

Since when does Pentax need lens design tips from anyone? Who makes and designs the Limiteds? It's lenses are its strongest suite; Pentax'd become a laughing stock if all their design and manufacturing of lenses was delegated to a third party.

As for the coatings, KP - I'm not even sure the Pentax 16-50/50-135 uses different coatings to the Tokina 16-50/50-135. Read the press release on the Pentax versions (specifically section five) and the blurb of Tokina's 16-50, third para.

Why does Pentax need lensmaking advice from anyone?

I'm only talking about high-end lenses here, though. If Hoya can save some cash having Tokina make Pentax kit lenses/hyperzooms to save some cash, all the better. In fact, hyperzooms might cut into sales of Tamron and Sigma in all mounts.

As for Cosina, I'm not sure if they're equipped to make the sort of lenses a digital camera manufacturer needs. They make kick-arse glass, but whether they can handle the electronics is up in the air.

Probably got a bit ahead of myself, KungPOW, anyway. The Tokina lenses in the current lineup might only be a stop-gap solution until the merger kinks get ironed out (and as for the 16-50 rebadging, I think that was just to get an SDM lens out on the market as fast as they could - not a bad thing, that.)

Imagine, indeed, a 31mm Limited in Nikon mount, KP. No one'd buy a Pentax body...

08-21-2009, 06:06 AM   #114
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Sony buy Minolta and pours enough money into it to become now a major player in the dSLR business. Which is probably driving the cost of everything down actually. With that being said over the next 5 to 10 years, Sony will likely become the defacto standard of photography replacing Ca-nikon.

As for Pentax. Well every time we hear Hoya beat the drum of profitability and anything related to the word partner, every Pentaxian shutters.

*Make a FF*

*More Lenses*

*A pro model*

These are the usually lines i read in a thread like this.

All and all Hoya is pretty committed to a long term pentax success. We have the K-7 and a host of new glass.

Honestly i wouldn't be scared of any kind of partnership. Quite frankly the word "partnership" is basically just a really nice way of developing new technology without having to pay as much money for it. The samsung deal was really kind of a steal for Hoya/Pentax. They got a cmos sensor out of the deal and only had to give Samsung a camera that was going no where because Samsung doesn't in fact sell cameras. Samsung of course was in reality following Sony and might have actually bought Pentax from Hoya should the Samsung camera had done well. Samsung of course has kind of it seems decided to exit the camera business for now anyway.

While Pentax has grow a bit, in order to become a big time player, it needs money. Digital Lenses are not easy to make as film and Pentax needs more of them. Pentax glass is every bit just as good as the prosumer Nikon and Canon but they don't have nearly as much of it.
08-21-2009, 09:21 AM   #115
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Pentax does not need alliance on glass.

They might be helped on:

* manufacturing (churning out more lenses/bodies faster)

* electronics

* sensors
*Quality Control
08-21-2009, 09:24 AM   #116
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QuoteOriginally posted by GaryM Quote
*Quality Control
Included in manufacturing, logicaly. Just thought I shouldn't hammer that again
Of course I agree.
08-21-2009, 09:38 AM   #117
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QuoteOriginally posted by lithos Quote
Aye, ytterbium. Pentax seem to be willing to take a rather longish punt on 645D, and if you think a 645-style camera's a less risky choice than a 35mm-formatted one...

I'm not asking for the uber-bleeding edge features like the Canon 1Ds or Nikon D3s.
I wonder how far along the development cycle they are with the 645D. If they are pretty far along and the IQ can best FF, then I say continue. It could, after all, create a new niche in the market - affordable medium format digital.

On the lower-end, Olympus and Panasonic appear to have established a foothold between advanced Point-and-shoots and dSLRs with their micro 4/3rds. On the higher-end, a 645D can do the same, bridging the gap between expensive Canikon FF dSLRs and holy-crap-that's-expensive Hasselblads and Leicas.

If they rush out a less-than-excellent FF they'll get slammed and it will hurt the brand. I wonder, for example, if Sony's FF - with its reported noise issues - is helping them any?
08-21-2009, 09:59 AM   #118
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Last official (read magazines getting statements from PR) news I got was that the Pentax 645D would be ready begining of 2010.

The "Salon de la Photo" will happen in Paris between the 15 and the 19 of october, I expect Pentax to display its Medium format at least under glass as a way to highlight its commitment on the French market. (They said it was was the market where they had the biggest market share and they relocated their headquarter there, so...) I wouldn't be able to attend this year, but I know there some other French Pentaxian on this forum.

By the way, don't you feel strange about the lack of future lenses in the official Pentax Roadmap ? The only one that has not been delivered yet is the Pentax 645 55, that is to be released along with the 645D.

My 50c guess, is that Pentax is preparing the long term by using his limited ressources to design full frames lenses (they need at least : 20-30 ultrawide, 24-70/2.8 & 70-200/2.8 zooms for that) This doesn't means that a full frame body is for next year, but at least that they are thinking about the future.

Regards,
Guillaume
08-21-2009, 07:24 PM   #119
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
I wonder how far along the development cycle they are with the 645D. If they are pretty far along and the IQ can best FF, then I say continue. It could, after all, create a new niche in the market - affordable medium format digital.

On the lower-end, Olympus and Panasonic appear to have established a foothold between advanced Point-and-shoots and dSLRs with their micro 4/3rds. On the higher-end, a 645D can do the same, bridging the gap between expensive Canikon FF dSLRs and holy-crap-that's-expensive Hasselblads and Leicas.

If they rush out a less-than-excellent FF they'll get slammed and it will hurt the brand. I wonder, for example, if Sony's FF - with its reported noise issues - is helping them any?
That's all true. If it's more than 50% finished, I say go for it. From all reports, it's closer to 80%.

Another thing that'll differentiate from Hasselblad offerings and the Leica S digital is Pentax seems bent on making a mini field camera, not a studio camera. Weather-sealed, tough, easy to handle (tripod NOT required), small, and not oh-god-as-soon-as-you-take-one-photo-put-it-back-in-the-Pelican-case-for-the-love-of-god-I-had-to-take-a-second-mortgage-to-pay-for-it-and-a-third-to-get-the-necessary-insurance expensive.

It'll probably handle a bit better than the Mamiya digital-backed 645 cameras, but with better WR since it's digital integrated. Will probably be more expensive than the 645+back offerings, if only due to the newness of it and the increased resolution, but not into Mid-Range Car territory like the Hassys.

Hopefully, to further its field credentials, there's be a good range of ISOs, not just topping out at 800, but with better a lower noise chip. Surely an MF CMOS at 1600 ISO would be as good as APS-C at 400. DR would have to be done well, too, as landscape and nature photogs don't get to control the sun like studio lights, and I think a James Bond-esque Giant Space Mirror's a little too unwieldy (and they always just end up being used to blackmail the UN.)

Oooo - I wonder if it'll have SR!

And I hope it'll be cheaper than the D3x, and maybe only slightly heavier, without lenses...that would drops some jaws.
08-21-2009, 11:03 PM   #120
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
I concur. Of all the brands, Cosina seems to me the best company to work together with. Apart from the Zeiss and Voigtlander lenses, don't they also produce the nice Voigtlander Bessas? Cosina has a VERY strong foot in the manual focus market and a good name for excellent optical designs.
I believe that Cosina's bread and butter is making all of those point and shoots that get relabeled by everyone else?
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