future of pentax

Blue · 08-21-2009, 04:46 PM

Originally posted by X Man

Yes, the deal was good for Apple. No doubt about it. However, it was not a "bailout" or a "rescue". It was a settlement of lawsuits.

Besides, the quote on the Time cover, doesn't match the version of the quote inside the magazine.

"Thank you for your support of this company. I think the world's a better place for it."
STEVE'S JOB: RESTART APPLE - TIME

I think that's different. I think that "If it bleeds, it leads...." Pinning the "Saving" tag on Job's quote after cutting the quote up in the first place is sensationalism. Pure and simple.

$150 Million dollars would no more have "saved" the Pontiac division of GM. It was a token amount and not a gift or loan.

Regards,
Mike

Jobs and Gates have had their moments. As far as the $150 M goes, it increased their cash on hand by 12.5% which is significant. How much did Hoya purchase Pentax for? (That is somewhat a rhetorical question).

To be frank, I don't like either company that well due to the strangle hold. I used to have a spoof operating system around here somewhere titled "WinBlown 2000." That thing was funny. Even the box was a spoof and funny.

**monochrome** · 08-21-2009, 05:09 PM

Originally posted by KungPOW

Hurray Apple!

now lets talk about Subaru!

Yeah. They're much more fun to drive since they don't tell you where to go and how to get there.

KungPOW · 08-21-2009, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

Yeah. They're much more fun to drive since they don't tell you where to go and how to get there.

....that's what a wife is for...

X Man · 08-21-2009, 05:14 PM

Originally posted by KungPOW

Hurray Apple!

now lets talk about Subaru!

Well, what can I say? The original premise of the thread sucked.

Regards,
Mike

**monochrome** · 08-22-2009, 09:55 AM

Originally posted by KungPOW

Hurray Apple!

now lets talk about Subaru!

Originally posted by monochrome

Yeah. They're much more fun to drive since they don't tell you where to go and how to get there.

Originally posted by KungPOW

....that's what a wife is for...

Maybe that's why mine drives the Subaru.

MikePerham · 08-22-2009, 10:23 AM

Originally posted by X Man

Microsoft did not pull Apple out of the hole. Steve Jobs did.

You are correct, but I wonder what would happen to Apple if there was no Steve Jobs.

nostatic · 08-22-2009, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by monochrome

Originally Posted by KungPOW
....that's what a wife is for...

-------------

Maybe that's why mine drives the Subaru.

You're wife is a lesbian?

Well, I suppose that might be interesting if she's open minded...

X Man · 08-22-2009, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by MikePerham

You are correct, but I wonder what would happen to Apple if there was no Steve Jobs.

Now? Panic and then business as usual. While Jobs is the face of Apple, I think the foundation and corporate culture is there to carry Apple forward well into the future, even without Jobs.

Then? Oh, that's much more interesting. It would've been ugly I'm afraid. Apple may have survived, but they most certainly would not have thrived as they did since Job's return.

Jonathan Ive [hardware designer] was there in 1996 but it was just before Jobs returned and it was probably Jobs who hired him. Jobs had that Next OS, Mach Micro-Kernel. So, no Jobs, no OS X? No OS X, no good for Apple. Every single facet of Apple's resurgence from 1998 to now is directly attributable to Steve Jobs.

I think personally that Apple would've failed if not for Job's return.

Regards,
Mike

falconeye · 08-22-2009, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by X Man

Now? Panic and then business as usual. While Jobs is the face of Apple, I think the foundation and corporate culture is there to carry Apple forward well into the future, even without Jobs.

Probably not.

There are visionary people. And there are people with power. Very rarely only you will find a visionary guy in power.

Empowered people normally are afraid of visionary people and disbelief them at best, or chase them at worst, not support them. Visionary people have to found their own company and then fight against a crowd of power-hungry persons to survive and succeed. Jobs had to do it twice, actually ...

Power-hungry persons think in terms of shareholder value, merger and aquisitions, and cost cutting. Visionary people just "know" how a great product looks like in ten years time. As the term "visionary" suggests, a visionary person can "see" where others are blind.

The problem is that normal people cannot tell visionary and utopian apart. Utopians dream and shouldn't be followed, visionary should.

No way Apple will continue to be the company it was once Jobs has left it. Becoming blind affects everybody, Apple included.

nostatic · 08-22-2009, 05:23 PM

Originally posted by falconeye

No way Apple will continue to be the company it was once Jobs has left it. Becoming blind affects everybody, Apple included.

Maybe, but the reality is that Jobs' impact on product design over the last few years is somewhat overstated by the popular media. He isn't an idiot, and wants Apple to continue after he leaves. As such he has created a team and infrastructure that allows forward movement even when Jobs isn't at the "helm." He isn't the only person with "vision" in the company.

johnmflores · 08-22-2009, 07:08 PM

Ok, since I jokingly inserted Apple into this discussion, I guess that it's my responsibility to try to drag them out (and Subaru too) and (try to) bring this back on topic. Or is this thread too far gone?

Are there any visionaries @ Pentax? Are there any visionaries at the other camera manufacturers? What is their vision?

Consider, for example, Cosina. Cosina's president, Mr. Kobayashi, believes that there is still some life left in 35mm film and has devoted his company to fill that niche. He has made some very shrewd moves to license a heritage brand name (Voigtlander) and build cameras and lenses based on a well-established and well-loved standard - Leica rangefinders. Their modest success over the years has been a delightful surprise - a vision realized.

nostatic · 08-22-2009, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by johnmflores

Are there any visionaries @ Pentax? Are there any visionaries at the other camera manufacturers? What is their vision?

Whoever is responsible for the ltd primes is on the right page imho.

Jonson PL · 08-22-2009, 09:04 PM

Originally posted by falconeye

There are visionary people. And there are people with power. Very rarely only you will find a visionary guy in power.

Empowered people normally are afraid of visionary people and disbelief them at best, or chase them at worst, not support them. Visionary people have to found their own company and then fight against a crowd of power-hungry persons to survive and succeed. Jobs had to do it twice, actually ...

Power-hungry persons think in terms of shareholder value, merger and aquisitions, and cost cutting. Visionary people just "know" how a great product looks like in ten years time. As the term "visionary" suggests, a visionary person can "see" where others are blind.

The problem is that normal people cannot tell visionary and utopian apart. Utopians dream and shouldn't be followed, visionary should.

Interesting perspective.
Also good reads on your latest blog entries

Nubi · 08-23-2009, 04:27 AM

Didn't Jobs leave once and the company then tanked? He came back and look where they are today. If he leaves or die, their stocks will dive for sure.

falconeye · 08-23-2009, 06:19 AM

Originally posted by johnmflores

Ok, since I jokingly inserted Apple into this discussion, I guess that it's my responsibility to try to drag them out

Originally posted by johnmflores

Are there any visionaries @ Pentax? Are there any visionaries at the other camera manufacturers? What is their vision?

Good question. Normally, one knows them by name. But it may be different for a Japanese company. Then again, the visionaries behind PlayStation3, MetalGear and Gran Turismo are all well known.

To me, all current high end digital cameras resemble 20 y.o. SLR too much to have possibly be designed by visionaries.

Originally posted by Jonson PL

Interesting perspective.
Also good reads on your latest blog entries

Originally posted by Nubi

Didn't Jobs leave once and the company then tanked?

He didn't leave. He was chased out of the company by the power-hungry once they started to disbelieve him. Google for "John Sculley".

08-22-2009, 04:55 PM	#24
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by X Man Now? Panic and then business as usual. While Jobs is the face of Apple, I think the foundation and corporate culture is there to carry Apple forward well into the future, even without Jobs. Probably not. There are visionary people. And there are people with power. Very rarely only you will find a visionary guy in power. Empowered people normally are afraid of visionary people and disbelief them at best, or chase them at worst, not support them. Visionary people have to found their own company and then fight against a crowd of power-hungry persons to survive and succeed. Jobs had to do it twice, actually ... Power-hungry persons think in terms of shareholder value, merger and aquisitions, and cost cutting. Visionary people just "know" how a great product looks like in ten years time. As the term "visionary" suggests, a visionary person can "see" where others are blind. The problem is that normal people cannot tell visionary and utopian apart. Utopians dream and shouldn't be followed, visionary should. No way Apple will continue to be the company it was once Jobs has left it. Becoming blind affects everybody, Apple included. Last edited by falconeye; 08-22-2009 at 05:02 PM.

08-22-2009, 07:08 PM	#26
johnmflores Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Somerville, NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,361	Ok, since I jokingly inserted Apple into this discussion, I guess that it's my responsibility to try to drag them out (and Subaru too) and (try to) bring this back on topic. Or is this thread too far gone? Are there any visionaries @ Pentax? Are there any visionaries at the other camera manufacturers? What is their vision? Consider, for example, Cosina. Cosina's president, Mr. Kobayashi, believes that there is still some life left in 35mm film and has devoted his company to fill that niche. He has made some very shrewd moves to license a heritage brand name (Voigtlander) and build cameras and lenses based on a well-established and well-loved standard - Leica rangefinders. Their modest success over the years has been a delightful surprise - a vision realized. Last edited by johnmflores; 08-22-2009 at 07:19 PM.

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08-21-2009, 04:46 PM	#16
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by X Man Yes, the deal was good for Apple. No doubt about it. However, it was not a "bailout" or a "rescue". It was a settlement of lawsuits. Besides, the quote on the Time cover, doesn't match the version of the quote inside the magazine. "Thank you for your support of this company. I think the world's a better place for it." STEVE'S JOB: RESTART APPLE - TIME I think that's different. I think that "If it bleeds, it leads...." Pinning the "Saving" tag on Job's quote after cutting the quote up in the first place is sensationalism. Pure and simple. $150 Million dollars would no more have "saved" the Pontiac division of GM. It was a token amount and not a gift or loan. Regards, Mike Jobs and Gates have had their moments. As far as the $150 M goes, it increased their cash on hand by 12.5% which is significant. How much did Hoya purchase Pentax for? (That is somewhat a rhetorical question). To be frank, I don't like either company that well due to the strangle hold. I used to have a spoof operating system around here somewhere titled "WinBlown 2000." That thing was funny. Even the box was a spoof and funny.

08-21-2009, 05:09 PM	#17
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by KungPOW Hurray Apple! now lets talk about Subaru! Yeah. They're much more fun to drive since they don't tell you where to go and how to get there.

08-21-2009, 05:12 PM	#18
KungPOW Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Vancouver, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,699	Originally posted by monochrome Yeah. They're much more fun to drive since they don't tell you where to go and how to get there. ....that's what a wife is for...

08-21-2009, 05:14 PM	#19
X Man Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Maine Photos: Gallery Posts: 478	Originally posted by KungPOW Hurray Apple! now lets talk about Subaru! Well, what can I say? The original premise of the thread sucked. Regards, Mike

08-22-2009, 09:55 AM	#20
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by KungPOW Hurray Apple! now lets talk about Subaru! Originally posted by monochrome Yeah. They're much more fun to drive since they don't tell you where to go and how to get there. Originally posted by KungPOW ....that's what a wife is for... Maybe that's why mine drives the Subaru.

08-22-2009, 10:23 AM	#21
MikePerham Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Prince George, BC Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 642	Originally posted by X Man Microsoft did not pull Apple out of the hole. Steve Jobs did. You are correct, but I wonder what would happen to Apple if there was no Steve Jobs.

08-22-2009, 10:34 AM	#22
nostatic Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: socal Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,575	Originally posted by monochrome Originally Posted by KungPOW ....that's what a wife is for... ------------- Maybe that's why mine drives the Subaru. You're wife is a lesbian? Well, I suppose that might be interesting if she's open minded...

08-22-2009, 11:34 AM	#23
X Man Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Maine Photos: Gallery Posts: 478	Originally posted by MikePerham You are correct, but I wonder what would happen to Apple if there was no Steve Jobs. Now? Panic and then business as usual. While Jobs is the face of Apple, I think the foundation and corporate culture is there to carry Apple forward well into the future, even without Jobs. Then? Oh, that's much more interesting. It would've been ugly I'm afraid. Apple may have survived, but they most certainly would not have thrived as they did since Job's return. Jonathan Ive [hardware designer] was there in 1996 but it was just before Jobs returned and it was probably Jobs who hired him. Jobs had that Next OS, Mach Micro-Kernel. So, no Jobs, no OS X? No OS X, no good for Apple. Every single facet of Apple's resurgence from 1998 to now is directly attributable to Steve Jobs. I think personally that Apple would've failed if not for Job's return. Regards, Mike

08-22-2009, 05:23 PM	#25
nostatic Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: socal Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,575	Originally posted by falconeye No way Apple will continue to be the company it was once Jobs has left it. Becoming blind affects everybody, Apple included. Maybe, but the reality is that Jobs' impact on product design over the last few years is somewhat overstated by the popular media. He isn't an idiot, and wants Apple to continue after he leaves. As such he has created a team and infrastructure that allows forward movement even when Jobs isn't at the "helm." He isn't the only person with "vision" in the company.

08-22-2009, 07:50 PM	#27
nostatic Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: socal Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,575	Originally posted by johnmflores Are there any visionaries @ Pentax? Are there any visionaries at the other camera manufacturers? What is their vision? Whoever is responsible for the ltd primes is on the right page imho.

08-22-2009, 09:04 PM	#28
Jonson PL Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Copenhagen Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,842	Originally posted by falconeye There are visionary people. And there are people with power. Very rarely only you will find a visionary guy in power. Empowered people normally are afraid of visionary people and disbelief them at best, or chase them at worst, not support them. Visionary people have to found their own company and then fight against a crowd of power-hungry persons to survive and succeed. Jobs had to do it twice, actually ... Power-hungry persons think in terms of shareholder value, merger and aquisitions, and cost cutting. Visionary people just "know" how a great product looks like in ten years time. As the term "visionary" suggests, a visionary person can "see" where others are blind. The problem is that normal people cannot tell visionary and utopian apart. Utopians dream and shouldn't be followed, visionary should. Interesting perspective. Also good reads on your latest blog entries

08-23-2009, 04:27 AM	#29
Nubi Guest	Didn't Jobs leave once and the company then tanked? He came back and look where they are today. If he leaves or die, their stocks will dive for sure.

08-23-2009, 06:19 AM	#30
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by johnmflores Ok, since I jokingly inserted Apple into this discussion, I guess that it's my responsibility to try to drag them out Originally posted by johnmflores Are there any visionaries @ Pentax? Are there any visionaries at the other camera manufacturers? What is their vision? Good question. Normally, one knows them by name. But it may be different for a Japanese company. Then again, the visionaries behind PlayStation3, MetalGear and Gran Turismo are all well known. To me, all current high end digital cameras resemble 20 y.o. SLR too much to have possibly be designed by visionaries. Originally posted by Jonson PL Interesting perspective. Also good reads on your latest blog entries Originally posted by Nubi Didn't Jobs leave once and the company then tanked? He didn't leave. He was chased out of the company by the power-hungry once they started to disbelieve him. Google for "John Sculley".