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08-29-2009, 06:01 PM   #61
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Firstly, it's a bit of a bugger that Foveon has been bought by Sigma. One less manufacturer there. That could have been something groundbreaking.

Secondly, I'm not sure if they will now pursue a three camera APS lineup. The goalposts for entry level cameras with a full feature set have crept back up to $800-1000 (at release) rather than the 6-700 dollars we saw a couple of years ago (C*non and Oly in particular leading the charge there). The D90 has held it's value, so I see the K7 as competitive against the 50d/500d, the D90, E-P1, and the Panny whatever.

I see the K-m been beefed up to cover the lower stuff and That's it folks. I'm hoping otherwise, but no-one has heard anything to the contrary.

But I digress. Point I was going to make was that the potential for FF has diminished with the market split as outlined well in the post above. And if you haven't got the cash or the sensor expertise as noted before (both with respect to Hoya structure or technology partners), then things aren't going to happen.

08-29-2009, 06:07 PM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
It is a little ironic to me that the biggest concerns about the K20 were auto focus and frames per second and they are addressed in the K7. Suddenly the K20 (which I believe is an awesome camera) is the most wonderful thing since sliced bread and the K7 is worthless. How can they win?
There are some people who you will never be able to please. However, from the k10 to k20, I didn't see enough improvement to warrant the cost of a new body. MP's were low on my list of things to improve upon and I really had no use for live view or the 20fps @ 3 mp's. From the k10 to the k-7 though, it was enough of an upgrade in pretty much every way I wanted, it warranted the cost (and perhaps a second k-7 next year as a back-up, budget permitting). Having said that, I'm sure those with k20's who don't need faster performance/AF don't see the value in going from a very capable 14mp body to a very capable 14mp body.

I'm pretty sure that unless there's some massive ground-breaking feature which I must have in the k-7 replacement, I'll likely pass it up and wait for the next replacement beyond that.
08-29-2009, 06:49 PM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by Damn Brit Quote
I am worried that the flurry of activity on the part of Pentax marketing surrounding the K-7 is a case of 'shit or bust'.
I don't see it that way at all. I think Pentax have a great camera in the K-7, they are getting good press, and they want to build on that success to increase brand awareness.

The road tour in the states, and the "Meet the rep" session at a number of large volume retailers in Western Canada (my part of the world) are all designed to increase brand awareness; certainly the K-7 is the product with which they can do this.

So many people bemoaned the lack of advertising and now that they are doing some good marketing, it is being suggested that it must be "do or die" - I just do not take such a pessimistic view of this. I believe that Pentax are (finally) doing some good marketing to increase brand awareness ...perhaps they may even reach the market share they enjoy in Japan or France.
08-29-2009, 07:06 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by MikePerham Quote
So many people bemoaned the lack of advertising and now that they are doing some good marketing, it is being suggested that it must be "do or die" - I just do not take such a pessimistic view of this. I believe that Pentax are (finally) doing some good marketing to increase brand awareness.
They're certainly doing that in Australia with all the current local magazines having full page ads on the K-7.

08-29-2009, 09:55 PM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by KungPOW Quote
I think there was a time...
Then something happened...
Then the press got cold with the allies of Samsung and Pentax....
I think the Samsung/Pentax partnership is over..
Man, you can really make up stories
The only thing was that a lot of the "events" you mentioned were either not true or pure speculation.
08-29-2009, 09:58 PM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by KungPOW Quote
Pentax's own K20D is major competition for the K-7.
No, that's not true. K20D is a discontinued model. What you say would only be correct if Pentax has kept both models in production. Any newly released models would have an overlap period with outgoing models. That's to be expected. And if K20D is available for longer period of time, that's only because of larger unsold inventory.
08-29-2009, 10:13 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by KungPOW Quote
I am also wondering this. How long before we know do you think?
We'll have more evidence by the end of the year I expect when new camera(s) are or are not announced and by sales figures of the K-7.

QuoteOriginally posted by MikePerham Quote
I don't see it that way at all. I think Pentax have a great camera in the K-7, they are getting good press, and they want to build on that success to increase brand awareness.

The road tour in the states, and the "Meet the rep" session at a number of large volume retailers in Western Canada (my part of the world) are all designed to increase brand awareness; certainly the K-7 is the product with which they can do this.

So many people bemoaned the lack of advertising and now that they are doing some good marketing, it is being suggested that it must be "do or die" - I just do not take such a pessimistic view of this. I believe that Pentax are (finally) doing some good marketing to increase brand awareness ...perhaps they may even reach the market share they enjoy in Japan or France.
All we can do is speculate. The road tour seemed to be a last minute affair and reached a few hundred people at most (the majority of whom already own Pentax). I can't speak for your 'meet the rep' sessions but I'm sure they must have reached more people (new customers at that) than the U.S. tour. That would have been a far better option here except there are so few sellers.
I start a BFA in photography next week and I got to meet many of my fellow students online last week. It seems that I will be the only student with Pentax. Some of the students were under the impression that Pentax no longer exist. Thirty years ago, there's a good chance most of the students would have had K1000s.
I find it extremely sad that it's hard to be optimistic about the future. Optimism seems to have been replaced by hope. Ideally the optimism and hope should be bed partners.

Last edited by Damn Brit; 08-30-2009 at 01:01 AM.
08-30-2009, 12:59 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
It is a little ironic to me that the biggest concerns about the K20 were auto focus and frames per second and they are addressed in the K7. Suddenly the K20 (which I believe is an awesome camera) is the most wonderful thing since sliced bread and the K7 is worthless. How can they win?
From what I've seen (and granted, I have not used a K-7 yet), it appears that the AF/fps improvement is somewhat less than it seems since it slows down to ~3fps if you're tracking a moving subject.

I personally would not buy a "5.2fps" camera if I could only get near those speeds shooting something static.

08-30-2009, 01:33 AM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
Man, you can really make up stories
The only thing was that a lot of the "events" you mentioned were either not true or pure speculation.
So, if Samsung and Pentax are still "happy together" why is Pentax out shopping for a new partner?

And I don't think I made anyhing up. This was my interpretation of this past years press releases.
08-30-2009, 01:38 AM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by KungPOW Quote
I think there was a time that Pentax really was planning to release a FF camera. There was the Samsung FF sensor rumor, there were hints from people close to Pentax marketing, The 645D project had been put on hold. There was still plenty of Samsung/Pentax press news.

Then something happened. My thought is that Samsung realised Hoya was not going to sell Pentax. The assets of Pentax would not become the property of Samsung.
I think KungPoW might have put things in perspective. I'm a bit miffed that Pentax doesn't have a FF (obviously from my previous posts) but if you look back at his post.....perhaps Hoya would like nothing more than to offer FF...but can't. If that's true..then saying they are committed to their current format makes sense...perhaps they would like to offer more. I hope they can.
08-30-2009, 01:50 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
No, that's not true. K20D is a discontinued model. What you say would only be correct if Pentax has kept both models in production. Any newly released models would have an overlap period with outgoing models. That's to be expected. And if K20D is available for longer period of time, that's only because of larger unsold inventory.
Right now, Pentax is selling two models with identical image quality. The output of both cameras is the same. It makes no difference if they are not BUILDING the K20D anymore, the point is that it is still for sale.

When the K20D came out, the overlap with the K10D was minimal. Of the stores in my area, the K10D was gone before the K20D hit the shelves. The K10D was available for a short time online, but then it was gone.

Not like this release where Pentax still has the K20D on the shelf. Even the Penatx.ca website has the K20D listed. Where are we now? Almost 2 months after the K-7 hit the shelves?
08-30-2009, 02:45 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
From what I've seen (and granted, I have not used a K-7 yet), it appears that the AF/fps improvement is somewhat less than it seems since it slows down to ~3fps if you're tracking a moving subject.

I personally would not buy a "5.2fps" camera if I could only get near those speeds shooting something static.
What makes you think you that you can only shoot moving targets with AF-C? I've talked to a few sports photographers, and they don't just set the autofocus and fire away, they will use techniques like pre-focusing on a set point and anticipate the action. If you were shooting a baseball player like a pitcher in wind-up, the 5fps would be very handy. Same with a golfer making a drive. It's funny, but the K-7s biggest critics tend to be people who have never used the camera!
08-30-2009, 03:30 AM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by GaryM Quote
It's funny, but the K-7s biggest critics tend to be people who have never used the camera!
That's quite possibly true but it could also be said "It's funny but the K-7s biggest fans tend to be people who have never used the camera". It was certainly true pre release and still true now to an extent.

Note: I'm not digging at you here Gary, just making an observation about the human drama that has surrounded the release of this particular camera.
08-30-2009, 03:41 AM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by GaryM Quote
What makes you think you that you can only shoot moving targets with AF-C?
Please don't read things into what I said -- I said "tracking". If you're satisified with being able to shoot baseball swings at 5.2fps and cars on a track at 3 or less, well, good for you. I would not be happy if I spent over $1k on a "5+ fps" camera only to find it's only capable of it within some serious limitations.

And the sports photographers I've talked to rely on autofocus and tracking unless the camera can't deliver, only then do they resort to things like prefocusing.
08-30-2009, 06:00 AM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
Please don't read things into what I said -- I said "tracking". If you're satisified with being able to shoot baseball swings at 5.2fps and cars on a track at 3 or less, well, good for you. I would not be happy if I spent over $1k on a "5+ fps" camera only to find it's only capable of it within some serious limitations.

And the sports photographers I've talked to rely on autofocus and tracking unless the camera can't deliver, only then do they resort to things like prefocusing.
that's still taking a chance, regardless of the camera and how much it cost. that or laziness. pre-focusing is a perfectly viable and in my opinion very worthwhile option. particularly if its your income. saying "the camera should be able to do it all." just because you paid big bucks for a "pro" camera, is a bit of a joke. (I know you didn't say that, but that's what I think your getting at here) I wont knock someone for thinking this way personally. its your income your choice, but I still think its pretty ridiculous. you can never be too prepared, and you should never rely only on your equipment.
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