Originally posted by ytterbium Don't expect the sensor to become much cheaper unless it takes completely different approach.
Different photosite design (ZnO nano tube for example), different production (qualitative smaller sensor stitching) etc can make it cheaper. Until that happens, manufacturers will be able to make better sensors, cheaper cameras (maybe FF pentaMIRROR and similar) and considering the new EVIL lines some significant improvement may happen to EVF much faster yielding some FF benefits obsolete. Not much about the sensor price.
Another factor is the form that FF tends to come in. They are bulky, complex photographing machines aimed at top price levels and pro or serious amateur users. Many need unobtrusive, reasonably priced, well built and fully functional unambitious daily tool. First one does not generate enough sales to creep into the entry level market. -Maybe this needs to be deleted. Lost my thought..
Sensors will continue to become cheaper as the manufacturing technology improves; the alleged cost differentials have been long exaggerated by a lack of competition in the FF dSLR market. This situation is happily improving. If you doubt that FF dSLRs will be able to become reasonably priced in the not too distant future, I invite you to look back at the history of APS-C dSLR pricing and how much cheaper the cameras have become.
Technology will never make FF benefits "obsolete," since larger formats will always have an advantage over smaller formats, based on optics, which never disappears regardless of the capture technology.
Originally posted by ytterbium Anyways im getting off topic again. So what makes so many people wait and expect FF. Not expect as they wanted one for any reason (old lenses, brand recognition, better user experience) but expect as thinking that Pentax could make one.
And why expect something that's not even promissed, if you can get one already?
Don't see what expectations or desires
of Pentax have to do with availability "already"
from other makes if what you're looking to do is use PK mount lenses on a FF dSLR (as opposed to buy all new cameras and lenses, which seems to be what you're suggesting).
Originally posted by kenyee Simply because the competition will eventually make that the common denominator as it was before. Eventually, APS-C will be relegated to the "entry level" market as APS-C was back in the film days.
I doubt Pentax will do this for another two years at least though...when you see the D700 come down to the $1200ish levels, I don't see there being much of a choice unless Pentax wants to keep play only in the $600-700 market where there probably is less margin than in their current $1200-1300 levels...
Agreed, particularly since APS-C has already hit an image quality wall vis-a-vis pixel count and noise. Since we've pretty much seen APS-C crammed with as many pixels as possible (probably more than desirable, in truth) there is an inexorable move to a larger format (i.e., FF) if continuing improvement in IQ is desired. As for any "technological" improvements, those will still be applied to the larger format as well, so no advantage can be gained.
Originally posted by smc If you look at Pentax over the years....35mm was always amateur (except the LX). That was fine as they had 2 pro lines...the 645 and 67. During that time, they sold 3 sets of lenses each proprietary to 35, 645 or 67. Pentax was highly respected as a company with the engineering and know how to make whatever it wanted.
What are they now?....well they make a great mid range camera. They make sure to point out it is "semi-pro" and not pro. They are no longer looked upon as having the ability to step up and make something serious. The 645d will help but not if it is a "Japan only" novelty item.
Pentax needs to produce a good FF camera that prioritizes pictures first and gimmicks second to help with brand recognition. They may not sell a lot of them, but it will help to sell their other camera lines in a big way.
I hate to say it....but from a Pentax perspective, they need to release that FF with a new LTD line of lenses that either drop the K mount, or are optimized for the new camera. They need to start selling lenses and their really isn't a good enough reason to do so right now with 50 years of glass to choose from.
Don't agree that 35mm was "always amateur" even with the LX exception; look at the glass, much of which preceded the LX by many years, that was hardly targeted at an "amateur" market, e.g., 135-600 f 6.7, 1000 f 8, 2000 f 13.5 etc. Pentax USED TO have a 35mm system that was professional as well as amateur, they just unwisely abandoned it.
Agree that they are no longer looked at as a camera maker that can step up and make something serious.
Agree that they need a good FF camera that prioritizes pictures and not gimmicks.
Disagree strongly that they need to drop the K mount, as this would be the torpedo that sinks the boat for sure. Pentax's backward compatibility is one of the only reasons for its continued existence. I submit that it's more important that they sell camera bodies than lenses, as even in the past they didn't have a lock on lens sales for their cameras (third party lens makers always provided alternatives, in some cases more attractive alternatives than the camera makers themselves, and often still do). They can gradually introduce FF lenses that are chipped, include the latest bells and whistles and will provide "upgrade" sales as time goes on, they needn't have them ready from Day 1 to sell the cameras.