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10-12-2009, 09:13 AM   #91
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Ogl your Bias is showing

I shoot mostly Canon. Why? Because I like it. I am objective on my camera purchases Olympus/Canon, (Pentax in the past) as I buy what fits my style.

I believe you are a personal friend of that idiot that reviewed the camera. He is in no way is professional, capable or even knowledgeable of reviewing process and his website is such a childlike build that it is just a joke.

His response of 4 to 1 in favour of his IDIOT rantings shows how many egghead Nikon/Canon fanboys that never picked up a Pentax actually read his dribble. Also, he has provided no evidence to back up his 4 to 1 claim anyway, so once again I think he is an idiot and a liar!

And from now on I am just going to ignore your posts too as you are defending someone too much to not have a personal vendetta to defending the fraud that he is. PERIOD!

10-12-2009, 09:21 AM   #92
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Michael Reichmann did a good job showing the opinion of someone with tons of systems and expensive equipment about the K-7, which I'd say if accurate if and only if you are in a similar position.

A more objective or emphasis on how the camera/system stand if you only get one would be more helpful to the general public.
10-12-2009, 04:26 PM   #93
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i tried to not get into this, but as i was one of the people with expressed curiosity about ll's review on the k7, i guess it's only fair i follow up.

the hands-on is .. dissapointing. honestly, i have no opinnion of my own on the k7, never seen it in reality, and so on. but, here's the thing: i am not even an inch closer to having such opinion after reading that review. it's a "yawn" review. it's worthless. i am sorry, but it is. i did not expect this from ll.

to be sure, i did not expect an all positive, "i'm going back to pentax" review either. actually, i would have been very interested and intrigued if michael reichmann would have destroyed the k7, under foot, mercyless, BUT, with valid arguments. as things are now, he said... well, nothing. i am, honestly, sincerly, at a loss. i have a lot of respect for the guys at ll, but, really, no offense meant and all: if you have no opinion, we really don't need to see that written down. really. "<yawn>i don't know<yawn>"? wtf.. where's the passion? where is the ll who can destroy a new leica offering without blinking, or goes so far as to make a public petition to all dslr manufacturers to adopt dng or somethign similar (hmm, it turns out only pentax ever listened to that one, too, as a side note). where is the ll leader of opinnion status? i guess it's the same as in photography: if you have nothing to say, i mean, not really anything to say, shut the **** up. oh, you can try to say it, but when you realize it turns out to be crap, just don't shout it out (aka: don't show your crappy pictures, we all make crappy pictures, we keep them hidden or delete them).

sorry, but i am just.. unexpectedly bored. can't find a better word. it's that "give me my 30minutes back" feeling. i am not angry at reichmann for his review, i don't agree or disagree, i just don't care. that's sad.
10-12-2009, 11:20 PM   #94
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"Quick, we need to do whatever it takes to get a K-7 to this guy, it's imperative!!"

hahaha, as I said in the beginning of this thread, if Luminous Landscape, or any other publication-for-profit cant do this on their own, then what good are they? Seriously, the level of whining and paranoia around here by some is staggering

At the end of the day, this review is merely a drop in the bucket of the ocean of reality. If you let a review come between you and your photography abilities, then you probably spend to much time online and too little time putting yourself in a position to capture the best photographs as possible. Priorities?

Jason

10-12-2009, 11:33 PM   #95
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Last edited by nostatic; 10-13-2009 at 05:59 PM.
10-12-2009, 11:58 PM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
Geez, some of you guys are like a bunch of poncy hairdressers (note to my Brit friends: hope I used that term correctly). All this blather about what MR "has to do", yada yada yada. If you don't like it, start your own site. And typical that for some who are complaining it is probably the only time you've ever been to LL and the only article you've read there.

He never claims to be an unbiased "all things to all people" review site. He doesn't do rigorous testing, but rather tends to use things under real-world conditions and give his opinion. He uses pretty much every brand.

His article essentially damns the K7 with faint praise, but I don't really think that was his intention. He no doubt doesn't come lurking over here to get the pulse of the Pentax community and search for mentions of his site here like RH likely still does. The camera is a tool, he uses it for awhile then gives his impression. And frankly, it is pretty spot-on. The K7 is competent, and improvement for Pentax, but other than weather sealing and compact high quality build, it doesn't really distinguish itself from the competition. That is just reality.

The camera didn't excite him. I totally understand that concept. I have used plenty of products that were great but didn't move me. As they say in the car industry, "there's a butt for every seat."

All cameras have strengths and weaknesses. As do reviewers. But to piss and moan because MR didn't do a "proper review" or that he should somehow "take it back" or that he's lying about response is pretty sad imho. Reviews don't affect your camera. To quote Richard Feynman, "what do you care what other people think?"
it does look like that MR is affected though. you don't usually see a person follows-up a review twice in succession with excuses like 4:1 ratio agree with his assessment. quite a contradiction for a person with his own personal opinion that needed a sentiment from others.

however, I think this would be the end of the debacle. no more Pentax dslr for LL testing. now how funny is that? honestly, the follow-up statement made it worse for MR. so you can't blame people if they are nitpicking MR for that silly statement. because it made him appear that he has no balls. and some people care about that. that's how the world works just the same.
10-13-2009, 05:37 AM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
it does look like that MR is affected though. you don't usually see a person follows-up a review twice in succession with excuses like 4:1 ratio agree with his assessment. quite a contradiction for a person with his own personal opinion that needed a sentiment from others.

however, I think this would be the end of the debacle. no more Pentax dslr for LL testing. now how funny is that? honestly, the follow-up statement made it worse for MR. so you can't blame people if they are nitpicking MR for that silly statement. because it made him appear that he has no balls. and some people care about that. that's how the world works just the same.
precisely. if he had followed up saying something like "i got a lot of hate mail regarding my k-7 review, and a lot of praises too. i must thank all of you for your feedback, to those who hate it, i have to say "**** you, i just didn't like it. go buy it if you do. what's the problem?", to those who agree with me "so what? go do something useful, instead of ''approving'' " ", now that would have at least been funny, and showed some charisma. as they say: everybody likes a show
10-13-2009, 05:44 AM   #98
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nostatic: i see your point, but i am afraid you "don't get it". it's like reading an author you really like, his entire work, and getting to a book which is simply dull and uninspiring. it's a dissapointment, and yes, you are entitled to whine about it and be intrigued. of course "mr" can put whatever he wants on his site, write whatever he wishes, and so on, but once you "let it out", everybody else reading it has the privilege to discuss it and have their own opinnion about it, be angry, sad, or disagree. it's just the way it goes.

10-13-2009, 07:53 AM   #99
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I respect the opinion of Michael Reichmann, so in this regard it is good to get his say on things.

My K10 fits me like a clove, and I love it with the grip also. I was very surprised, when I tried it, how good the small Km felt to me. So was looking forward to the K7. But for me, it wasnít a perfect fit. I will likely get it, but will probably prefer a grip on it most of the time, though I like a compact kit at times.
Possibly it could be the same for Reichmann, a shame they didnít have a grip for him to also try.

He writes about the lens aberration and distortion correction feature, and how most serious photographers will use the camera with it on. Does it work in RAW as well ?
I think many would probably prefer to do correction themselves, if theyíre very serious about it, in order to take full control. There are a lot of good software for distortion and also lens aberration. And Iím not sure Nikon and Canon has it with RAW ?
He usually works with D3 / D700 or Eos 1D Mark III. These are cameras in a different class, and Iím not surprised that they would work better with sports or low light action.

He doesnít seem to have had much time for testing, so he brings little new to the table. If it were a FF cam, maybe it would have gotten more space. With four cameras in one month, maybe he should have just leaped over testing the K7, when he couldnít give it a more thorough run-through. He should also have gotten some limited pancakes, to see what the combination can really do. The K7 is different from competition, but he didnít have time to find out what separated it.


What will likely be more his style; is the 645D. He loved the Leica S2, and how it was weather sealed :
Leica S2 First Impressions

We all fall short sometimes. And he probably felt inclined to write some words, now that he had borrowed the cam.

QuoteOriginally posted by Maxington Quote
Heh, so the huge outpouring of support from people who have "tried" the K7, means what exactly?

It means non-Pentax shooters handled the K7 in a store for 5mins and amazingly, still would prefer to continue using their current system. Since Nikon/Canon marketshare outweighs Pentax by far more than 4:1, that ratio is meaningless.
very true

QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
he said that the K-7 was in the middle of the pack dslr that isn't unique at all. I find that unbelievable coz I have every reason to believe that it does since I came from another system and pointed out the reasons why I did so. but I wouldn't had certainly noticed the K-7 if I had my eyes closed of those features.
I see your point.

For a good intro into different systems and recommendations, this Canon user did a good piece here :
doonster: Pictures & thoughts: A DSLR buyer's guide

QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
To quote Richard Feynman, "what do you care what other people think?"
Is it a good book ? Don't know Feynman much
10-13-2009, 09:37 AM   #100
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Last edited by nostatic; 10-13-2009 at 06:00 PM.
10-13-2009, 09:39 AM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jonson PL Quote

Is it a good book ? Don't know Feynman much
Highly recommended - any of his stuff. Also, check out "Genius"

Amazon.com: Genius: The Life and Science of Richard Feynman (9780679747048): James Gleick: Books

Feynman is one of my heroes...
10-13-2009, 02:45 PM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
All this blather about what MR "has to do", yada yada yada.
With power comes responsibility. LL has power and MR should have lived up to his responsibility to do a proper job. If you cannot be bothered about that, why do you bother commenting on the writing of some forum members?

QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
If you don't like it, start your own site.
And what would new sites change about LL being visited by many and potentially getting a wrong impression about the K-7?

QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
And typical that for some who are complaining it is probably the only time you've ever been to LL and the only article you've read there.
Pure speculation and an insulting one too. What's the point of this?

QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
His article essentially damns the K7 with faint praise, but I don't really think that was his intention.
So all is good? He does some damage but it is OK because he didn't mean too? How do you know what he meant to do?

QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
The K7 is competent, and improvement for Pentax, but other than weather sealing and compact high quality build, it doesn't really distinguish itself from the competition. That is just reality.
That is not "just reality" that is "just wrong". You know better than that.

QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
Reviews don't affect your camera.
I'd be surprised if anyone had thought that. It is not about MR pissing on our favourite toys.

QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
To quote Richard Feynman, "what do you care what other people think?"
I don't care at all what MR thinks. But I care what he does.
10-13-2009, 04:54 PM   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
I'd be surprised if anyone had thought that. It is not about MR pissing on our favourite toys.
.
I disagree.

Re-read the last paragraph:

QuoteQuote:
"In the end, the Pentax is a fine camera and anyone who finds it of interest will likely not be disappointed with its purchase. Don't regard this as damning with faint praise. It's a camera that will likely to be found equal to the needs of most photographers looking in this price and performance category. It just failed to light my fire."
He is being honest. What else can you ask? Any whining by the faithful is in fact just that - whining. If this had been a glowing review but lacking in rigor, the faithful here would have lauded him to the high heavens. Doubtful that many would take him to task for not being going into detail or checking out all the features.

Pentax makes some great stuff. And some less than great stuff. And in many ways they are middle of the pack at best with some features. Yet they excel with others. Seems that some want to see the latter but refuse to even acknowledge the possibility of the former. It is up to the individual to determine if the feature mix is what they want/need. It is OK for MT not to be thrilled by the K7. DPR was thrilled. As are other reviewers. Do you really need universal love for the camera?
10-13-2009, 05:30 PM   #104
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Last edited by nostatic; 10-13-2009 at 06:01 PM.
10-13-2009, 05:52 PM   #105
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The review is a joke as it completely fails to explain basic features of the camera or understand who it is made for. Two lenses are mentioned only to say that the author has no clue about them. He may as well have extended that same comment to the K-7 and ended the article in one paragraph.

Points are made in reference to external facts and biases that are not mentioned in the article, so a reader has no perspective on where the reviewer is coming form. It's a terrible article, plain and simple. If I was an editor I would never have let it pass.

Whether I like Pentax or the K-7 has no bearing whatsoever on this. In fact, I was quite critical of the K-7 in terms of ergonomics and agree with some of the assertions the author made.

And yes, Nostatic, I am a reader of Luminous Landscape. I'd say I've read 90% of the articles there. Furthermore, there is no reason to own a K-7 to know this article is rubbish. Your logic is bad and your insinuations are insulting.

Class A, I agree 100% with your post.
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