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09-01-2009, 01:50 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
I've just gotta ask, Samsungian, being a bit piqued by some sore spots about not having that kind of money, and linked-aspersions cast upon how much I know what I'm doing because of them:

What do you *want?*
umm, attention?

09-01-2009, 02:09 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
I've just gotta ask, Samsungian, being a bit piqued by some sore spots about not having that kind of money, and linked-aspersions cast upon how much I know what I'm doing because of them:

How can you* have* all that money, the means by which you got it, all these niggling complaints, generally having nothing good to say about the brand you're ostensibly a fan of...

And still find it worth your time to try bitching at Pentax, Hoya, and Samsung to be Nikon or Canon or whoever... Rather than just go buy what you want?

You've *never* got anything good to say about this stuff, without backhandedly slagging on it at the same time.

What do you *want?* And why are you here spreading 'rumors' to this effect, if it's not working for you?
Hi again, RML!

I am not Rebatian so my answer will be only my interpretation but here it goes anyway. If we can assess (I almost forgot the last s being to absorbed with the subject) his contribution to this forum it will be a single paragraph:

"I bought camera x on date y for z amount of money * ... you shouldn't buy the Pentax crap for that much when you can have a beautiful real camera for only 3 times as much ... if only Pentax wouldn't had been such a$$holes and did that special 689USD deal I wouldn't had this piece of ... well it isn't worth it one cent more than my 689USD deal I got on the (insert date) ... did I mentioned those Pentax a$$...les gave me a 3 year warranty in that amazing deal???"

* Of course x, y and z sometimes differ the line is almost always there.

In the end Rebatian has no technical skill and he needs a motif to justify his current state of incompetence. This motif is simple to him: Pentax sucks especially compared to his other cameras/systems hence there is no need to learn much about such primitive gear. So he needs to rub that in our faces because otherwise his posts would be empty and (although hard to imagine) even more meaningless than they are right now. The problem is not what he writes, the problem is that he chooses to write having nothing to write about!

Regards,
Radu

P.S. I bet there are at least 20 members on this forum alone (and I am not talking about Jim King, the KING ) that have a bigger investment in Pentax gear only than Rebatian has in all his "n" systems.
09-01-2009, 02:30 PM   #18
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I'm still pondering my continuation with K Mount

Still mulling it over, Keep K, and my glass I've had good memories with or cash out, move along and buy different stuff.

Heck, I'm still sitting on 6 F-1 from my film days.

I'm glad I trimmed my F-1 down from 16 F-1 I had at once

No way, no how I'll ever buy a K-7 as my hands won't get smaller. A K-7 in a K20D body made perfect sense to me, but alas not to Hoya or Pentax. I like the K20D, it keeps me in Pentax gears. No biggie, passing on a K-7 puts $1299 inplay to spend on something else, most likely outside of K Mount. Or not spend it at all and save it for another day. I'm most recently attracted to 17mm TiltShift Eos. Launch at $2499. Ouch. I bet it won't shed 10% in a year either
Passing on K-7 means I'm 1/2 way to 17mm TiltShift Heaven. And in 3 years what do you think will be worth more resale, K-7 or 17mm TS ? I'll guess 17mmTS lens, or most any other quality lense will retain more value over anybody's dslr that aged 3 years since. And as a bonus to recouping most of your outlay, you get the joy from using this glass. How Cool Is That? So what would I rather buy??? Lenses, that are priced right for the long term hold.

K Mount was my 1st Dslr system, & F-1 was my 1st Slr camera system. I'm just glad I let go of 2/3 of my FD kit before the market value on it plummeted a few years ago


The wife and I shoot. Yeah I know, canon gear is soooo heavy~man.


Whatever, my tiny wife handles 5D and 24-70/2.8 and 70-200/2.8 IS just fine, thank you very much.


And I see other ladies at National Parks with Big Gear & having a blast. Why's Pentax got to be so small ???


So when others spend on $500 plus on shoes, $300 handbags, $100 meals out we safely cover our gear purchases instead. Take good care of your gears and you can selectively relocate it when something else comes along to acquire. If I ditched Pentax today I'd probably recoup most of my outlay after 7 years of buying. If I ditched F-1 and my entire remaining FD System, I'd recoup most of my outlay from 1990-2005.

I do get off on getting great deals via shop & compare opportunities and I'm a sucker for made in japan quality control. I bet my old pentax lenses will appreciate in value since the days of Made In Japan are over for Hoya's Pentax. My goodness how much would 2009 Pentax gear cost if it were also Made In Japan, like my Canon and Nikon gears, all cameras & lenses I bought new from them in 2008 and 2009?

QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
I've just gotta ask, Samsungian, being a bit piqued by some sore spots about not having that kind of money, and linked-aspersions cast upon how much I know what I'm doing because of them:

How can you* have* all that money, the means by which you got it, all these niggling complaints, generally having nothing good to say about the brand you're ostensibly a fan of...

And still find it worth your time to try bitching at Pentax, Hoya, and Samsung to be Nikon or Canon or whoever... Rather than just go buy what you want?

You've *never* got anything good to say about this stuff, without backhandedly slagging on it at the same time.

What do you *want?* And why are you here spreading 'rumors' to this effect, if it's not working for you?
09-01-2009, 02:42 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
...
I might get a D700. I have zero Nikon gear and I have ~$3000 in Pentax gear.
...
I think full frame certainly have their advantages but for me the price is acceptable only for prof.

I can not afford to let me ride from the marketing departments or performance without taking into account the price.

But if you want the same one FF you could by the nikon d700 and one good lens and sell the short lens Pentax.
FF: short focal range
Aps-c: more longer focal range

And after 1 year you could decide if buy a k7d and remain with two different camera or sell everything and cover the long focal range using only Nikon but in each case there are always some drawbacks.

As always is the photographer who must be able to do a better use of their equipment because there isn't present the "perfect" solution.

Pentax k7d:
body only euro 1125
body and kit lens euro 1200

09-01-2009, 02:47 PM   #20
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I thought this post had good info in it concerning K-7 value

Man I thought this post had good info in it concerning K-7 wholesale value versus its artificial retail cost of $1,299 maybe you'all missed it ??? You know at $810 USA dollar bills Pentax makes a profit on each K-7 they wholsale. So whats a k-7 cost to build I'll guess $350ish. So in like of this info it makes sense that Pentax drops their dslr prices by 1/2 just 6 to 8 months after release, huh? Neither Canon or Nikon price their dslrs this way. Only Pentax. So Smart Pentaxians should wait for the K-7 price to drop by 1/2 and then its all good. Or wait a few months and buy Two K-7 for price of one, or a K-7 and a $650 lens. K Mount offers options, lots of options to consider if the money you spend on stuff means something to you long term. When, at what specific point in time, you buy your K Mount Dslr can really kill its residual value. If pentax past predicts the future yet again K-7 will be $700 in April 2010. Quote me, its what I've noticed year after year since I bought a new ZX-L film body, my first "full priced" pentax camera.


QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
Pentax K-7 has a higher than normal camera mark up over its wholesale at "$880" Loonies ,

so thats about $810 USA wholesale at .92c per dollar bill exchanged.

Dealers usually don't make $500 Plus on a single Dslr sale so theres plenty of room for Pentax to drop its M.A.P. in near future. MAP ???

Minimum Advertised Price


Here's the $880 K-7 Wholesale Linky:

Massive jump-ship. What to do? - FM Forums

and what you'll read there:

>>>"

I shoot Pentax. I always have. I've managed to capture some great photos with my K10 since last January when I started photography. Two complaints about Pentax though: ISO/noise performance and autofocus performance; it's consistently below-par with all of their bodies. Everything else is awesome. Just superb. Better than the other brands, sometimes.

I'm very disappointed with the noise performance of the K7. And despite the $880 (employee discounted) price tag, I might not pick one up.

I might get a D700. I have zero Nikon gear and I have ~$3000 in Pentax gear.

The D700 is full framed - it has spectacular noise performance and a brilliant and reliable autofocus system. That's all I want. But $3000 for the body and many thousands more for a new lens collection.

Ugh. What should I do?


<<<"

Last edited by Samsungian; 09-01-2009 at 03:21 PM.
09-01-2009, 03:29 PM   #21
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Since you are deeply concerned with pricing, you no doubt know that some manufacturers have employee purchase programs that allow them to buy things for *below* wholesale prices.

So there are two problems with your "good info":

1. it was posted by someone in the interwebs (ie it *must* be true)

2. employee purchase prices do not necessarily equal wholesale prices

And it is also interesting that you continue to evolve into "RH-lite". Instead of posting links to your own blog, you just post to whining links on other forums. You should start your own blog and complete the transformation. It'll be sassy, Mr. Lindy!
09-01-2009, 03:44 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
. . .
And it is also interesting that you continue to evolve into "RH-lite". . . .
I've been waiting for a "Rice Low" to appear on the scene.
09-01-2009, 03:48 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
The wife and I shoot. Yeah I know, canon gear is soooo heavy~man.


Whatever, my tiny wife handles 5D and 24-70/2.8 and 70-200/2.8 IS just fine, thank you very much.


And I see other ladies at National Parks with Big Gear & having a blast. Why's Pentax got to be so small ???
I don't think is being able to hold it. I think it is the question if you are WILLING to hold it. Sure, back in the film days my dad shot with Canon and had the 70-200mm f/2.8L and 28-70mm f/2.8L, and always let me hold it (I was 9 and 11 yrs old) and I was able to randomly take shots (didn't care for photography back then ). It only weighs about 3-4 lbs. Now i'm sure that most people wouldn't WANT to carry that 4lb set up, and even if they get used to it, they still would want a smaller camera to hold. It pains me to watch a guy carrying a 1D or 1Ds with a 70-200mm f/2.8L AND a flash. Unless you are physically ripped, that MUST be a pain in the ass to carry all day from 2 P.M. til 10 P.M (a random guy at the TownHall Christmas festival)

I guess that is where the K-7 comes in handy along with those LTD. Even with a 50-135mm zoom lens, the K-7 only weighs slightly more than the 1Ds (although if you add grip plus batteries, the body of the K-7 weighs much closer to the 1Ds)

Even you can't argue that the 5D+24-70mm (and especially the 70-200mm) is one hell of a heavy set up.

09-01-2009, 03:55 PM   #24
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Are camera store employees in Canada, Pentax employees?

Are camera store employees in Canada, Pentax employees?

If you read his posts his employer is a camerastore, not Pentax.

And its true everthing you read on the internets could be a lie. So why bother reading anything on the internets?

anyways, I like my Pentax gears. It'll make me sad to see them all go bye~bye:

I can't quit you Pentax...

QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
Since you are deeply concerned with pricing, you no doubt know that some manufacturers have employee purchase programs that allow them to buy things for *below* wholesale prices.

So there are two problems with your "good info":

1. it was posted by someone in the interwebs (ie it *must* be true)

2. employee purchase prices do not necessarily equal wholesale prices

And it is also interesting that you continue to evolve into "RH-lite". Instead of posting links to your own blog, you just post to whining links on other forums. You should start your own blog and complete the transformation. It'll be sassy, Mr. Lindy!
09-01-2009, 03:58 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
I've been waiting for a "Rice Low" to appear on the scene.
We've found him!


With Hoya at the helm i think that K7 price will remain high as long as possible. Unless Canikon equiv bodies approach the K7 price then the K7 will remain around its current price.

mike
09-01-2009, 04:22 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
Are camera store employees in Canada, Pentax employees?

If you read his posts his employer is a camerastore, not Pentax.

.
Let me be more clear since you evidently *don't* know as much about retail as you think.

Employees of retail stores often get "employee discounts" for certain products. For instance, when I worked at a bike shop during grad school, I could buy Trek bicycles (one of the brands we carried) for between 10-25% *below* wholesale depending on the model. The logic behind these programs are that customers see the employees with a certain product, hence giving legitimacy and visibility.

I have not worked at a camera store and do not know if Pentax has such a program in place. It would not surprise me though, especially if it is a larger/high volume dealer.

The presence of such programs in the retail space does make it difficult to translate an interweb forum posted price into the "real" wholesale price (which you insist on doing just to support your incessant "Pentax is ripping you off" mantra).

I'm thinking more "Rice Slow" personally...
09-01-2009, 04:27 PM   #27
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Bikes must have the highest price mark-ups, huh?

Better Bikes are crazy expensive. Is this mark-up reflected in their wholesale costs? I've got a couple Buds who paid more for their 3 bikes each than I did for all my camera gear. Why are bikes so expensive? Camera gear is so much more complicated to make than a bicycle. Clue me in, what Gives, why are they so expensive?


QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
Let me be more clear since you evidently *don't* know as much about retail as you think.

Employees of retail stores often get "employee discounts" for certain products. For instance, when I worked at a bike shop during grad school, I could buy Trek bicycles (one of the brands we carried) for between 10-25% *below* wholesale depending on the model. The logic behind these programs are that customers see the employees with a certain product, hence giving legitimacy and visibility.

I have not worked at a camera store and do not know if Pentax has such a program in place. It would not surprise me though, especially if it is a larger/high volume dealer.

The presence of such programs in the retail space does make it difficult to translate an interweb forum posted price into the "real" wholesale price (which you insist on doing just to support your incessant "Pentax is ripping you off" mantra).

I'm thinking more "Rice Slow" personally...
09-01-2009, 04:35 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
Better Bikes are crazy expensive. Is this mark-up reflected in their wholesale costs? I've got a couple Buds who paid more for their 3 bikes each than I did for all my camera gear. Why are bikes so expensive? Camera gear is so much more complicated to make than a bicycle. Clue me in, what Gives, why are they so expensive?
Margins on bicycles are small. Very small. Bike shops make their money on repairs and accessories.

High end bikes are often hand-made and must be incredibly light and strong. Also a small builder might make a couple hundred or maybe a few thousand frames a year. There aren't economies of scale there. Larger manufacturers get the economies of scale, but spend money on R&D to make the lighter/strong/faster version. Plus there are liability issues ($$$).

They also can be rolling art

09-01-2009, 05:16 PM   #29
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Wow...look at that weld. That is truly a work of art :drool:

I fully agree with nostatic on this issue. For example, my mom works at a department store. When stuff goes on sale, she gets up to 75% off (for clearance/discontinued/sale/coupon stuff).

One person =/= wholesale

"Rice Slow"...love it
09-01-2009, 05:31 PM   #30
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That TIG weld is GORGEOUS....
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