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03-30-2010, 12:37 PM   #166
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
Pentax does one thing well, look at K-7

The days of them making a 110 system, a 135 system, a 645 system, a 6x7 system are history. Hoya owns Pentax and is in control of their destiny. Hoya has no history making multiple cameras in multiple formats. And with all the layoffs imposed upon Pentax by Hoya buy out Pentax likely has few employees with this history now too. Its a history, likely not to be repeated.


. . .
Since Samsunian originally Necromanced this thread, I'm going to pick on his old quote a bit.

I updated it for you. :Hysterical:
QuoteQuote:
The days of them making a 110 digital system, a 135 dSLR system, a digital p & s and a medium format (645D ) system are Baaaa-aaaack.


03-30-2010, 05:03 PM   #167
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The Pentax k-EVIL-d again

At the risk of repeating myself (who, me?) I give you: a VERY rough workup of a vertical EVIL design.

Front: KAF2 lens mount on top.
Back: EVF on top; controls; (swivel?) LCD screen.
That's just a rough layout of the controls.

Body dimensions: Thickness (midpoint) about 25-30mm; through lens mount, about 55-60mm. Breadth about 65-70mm. Height maybe 110mm. Adequate battery may require a bit of expansion.



The goal: minimize thickness of lens-mount area by separating lens-sensor stack from circuitry-screen stack. If the body was oriented horizontally, the offset of lens from EVF and screen would probably be disconcerting. With this vertical orientation, the camera feels rather like an extended cellphone. Short lenses only, please.
03-30-2010, 05:17 PM   #168
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
At the risk of repeating myself (who, me?) I give you: a VERY rough workup of a vertical EVIL design.

Front: KAF2 lens mount on top.
Back: EVF on top; controls; (swivel?) LCD screen.
That's just a rough layout of the controls.

Body dimensions: Thickness (midpoint) about 25-30mm; through lens mount, about 55-60mm. Breadth about 65-70mm. Height maybe 110mm. Adequate battery may require a bit of expansion.



The goal: minimize thickness of lens-mount area by separating lens-sensor stack from circuitry-screen stack. If the body was oriented horizontally, the offset of lens from EVF and screen would probably be disconcerting. With this vertical orientation, the camera feels rather like an extended cellphone. Short lenses only, please.
uh, I dont think that would allow enough room for a Kmount and allow for focus. why have a Kmount on such a camera in the first place? why use SLR lenses on such a camera at all?
03-30-2010, 08:24 PM   #169
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QuoteOriginally posted by séamuis Quote
uh, I dont think that would allow enough room for a Kmount and allow for focus. why have a Kmount on such a camera in the first place? why use SLR lenses on such a camera at all?
The dimensions I gave are based on K-mount film cameras Pentax built and sold. OK, I cheated -- I measured my ZX-M. The f-EVIL-d's geometry is entirely consistent with existing cameras. If more volume were needed for batteries, motor etc, the vertical body could be lengthened a little, making it even more holdable.

And why use SLR lenses? Because they're there! One of Pentax's key criteria is backwards compatibility. Remember, a camera is just a platform upon which to hang lenses. A Pentax EVIL that required buying a whole new lens system might not have much appeal to consumers.

03-30-2010, 09:32 PM   #170
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
The dimensions I gave are based on K-mount film cameras Pentax built and sold. OK, I cheated -- I measured my ZX-M. The f-EVIL-d's geometry is entirely consistent with existing cameras. If more volume were needed for batteries, motor etc, the vertical body could be lengthened a little, making it even more holdable.

And why use SLR lenses? Because they're there! One of Pentax's key criteria is backwards compatibility. Remember, a camera is just a platform upon which to hang lenses. A Pentax EVIL that required buying a whole new lens system might not have much appeal to consumers.
making the body deep enough for a Kmount defeats the purpose of a compact EVIL camera. you may as well get a Kmount DSLR which would would arguably not be much bigger (ie: K-x, K-7) and would allow for a much better user experience with Kmount lenses. given the way you would have to hold that, you would be restricted to only a small amount of lenses, because anything too big would make it difficult if not impossible to hold and use properly. so if you have to limit yourself, you loose almost all of the advantage of having a Kmount. I just think using an SLR mount is not the way to go, and I can only imagine most people would agree. at least for your proposed body design. there is a reason that micro 4/3 cameras resemble SLR's, and there is a reason the new PEN is popular with people wanting to mount rangefinder lenses. your design, and an SLR mount, just doesnt work. I think pentax would be smarter to develop a smaller version of the Kmount and develop a line of dedicated lenses. ala the auto110. it worked back then, it could work now, if the lenses aren't too expensive.
03-30-2010, 10:26 PM   #171
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I'd by happy to use my 110 70mm lens on there! (The one in my Avatar)
03-31-2010, 12:34 AM   #172
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QuoteOriginally posted by séamuis Quote
making the body deep enough for a Kmount defeats the purpose of a compact EVIL camera.
Pick up and compare a FF SLR (like my ZX-M) and a HF dSLR, both K-mount. Which is thicker? Why? Pick up an old full-size FF fixed-lens RF like my Yashica GSN. Excluding the K-mount, it's body is the same size at the ZX-M. Hmmm...

A factor in the thickness of a dSLR is stacking the lens, sensor, and LCD screen together. The model I show moves the LCD screen out of that stack, reducing body thickness. If the goal of an EVIL is to have something the size of an old RF, this is one way to do it. As I mentioned above, an LCD screen horizontally offset from the lens-sensor stack would likely be confusing to users. Thus the vertical orientation of the model, to keep EV, lens+sensor, and screen in the same axis. And the screen, not being adjacent to the EV, wouldn't pick up so much facial sweat.

Handling would be about the same as with a FF SLR held vertically. Long lenses were used on such, as I recall. And compact long-throw lenses exist, like the 50-200. One ergonomic change might be to have a rounded bulge along the left front of the body, to serve as a grip, and to hold a couple of AA-sized LiOn cells. Give me time to do a little shooping and maybe I'll generate an image of such.

My point is, serious cameras aren't required to be horizontal. Look at the history of camera design and you'll see all sorts of (to modern eyes) weird-looking stuff, some of which was quite successful. Some modern P&S digicams are pretty weird, too. And the K-mount needn't be discarded in order to get a more compact camera. Now just wait till I whip out my design for a 250mpx 6x9cm digital folder!

PS: I agree that we're not likely to see this from Pentoya. Maybe some firm that isn't dependent on making lenses for a specific mount could develop a version like this. Let's see, Sigma makes a 'forensic' dSLR with a Nikon mount. And they certainly have experience with FF K-mount lenses. Hmmm...

Last edited by RioRico; 03-31-2010 at 12:41 AM.
04-01-2010, 01:03 PM   #173
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I hope Pentax goes evil since they will compliment well w/ the Limiteds.There are rumours Nikon will go evil .

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