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View Poll Results: Your bet?
Pentax (cameras) will get ever stronger with the support of Hoya 8456.38%
Pentax will continue to play as a niche but minor player and nothing will change 3221.48%
Hoya will sell the Pentax's camera division and brand eventually to 3rd party 2818.79%
Hoya will dismiss the Pentax camera division 53.36%
Voters: 149. You may not vote on this poll

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05-23-2007, 06:52 AM   #1
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Your Speculations? (on the Hoya-Pentax Issue)

I just wish to start a poll to see your faith/hope/prediction/speculation (or whatsoever) about the future Pentax and Pentax's future, especially during these days things are getting very unclear about the Hoya-Pentax merging deal and rumours are just floating around each day.

Well, I think it's always interesting to look back how we Pentaxians thought before the issue will finally get settled some days later. It's just like a "time-bag" which buried under somewhere and we open it after certain years.

Okay, please make your vote now!

05-23-2007, 06:57 AM   #2
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My speculations? Lets see, what ever happens happens. I will still continue to by pentax products after the merger, the sun will keep shinning and the earth will keep turning.

One good thing that it might mean is that no more "Whats going to happen when Hoya merges with Pentax?" threads pop up daily
05-23-2007, 07:01 AM   #3
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My speculation is that more speculation will do nothing except possibly blur the situation further, which helps noone (except canon and nikon).
05-23-2007, 11:07 AM   #4
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In all these discussions about Hoya and Pentax, I haven't seen anyone mention how Samsung factors into this (or maybe I just haven't been reading carefully).

Even if Pentax's camera division gets shut down, Samsung definitely isn't going anywhere. Since they're using Pentax designs for their current generation of dSLRs, couldn't we assume that they're going to stick with K-mount in future dSLR releases? Sony has the Minolta mount now and maybe Samsung will have the Pentax mount.

05-23-2007, 11:37 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by igowerf Quote
In all these discussions about Hoya and Pentax, I haven't seen anyone mention how Samsung factors into this (or maybe I just haven't been reading carefully).

Even if Pentax's camera division gets shut down, Samsung definitely isn't going anywhere. Since they're using Pentax designs for their current generation of dSLRs, couldn't we assume that they're going to stick with K-mount in future dSLR releases? Sony has the Minolta mount now and maybe Samsung will have the Pentax mount.
It is my understanding that a Japanese company can't be bought out by a Korean company, I may be wrong but ?


wll
05-23-2007, 11:43 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by igowerf Quote
In all these discussions about Hoya and Pentax, I haven't seen anyone mention how Samsung factors into this (or maybe I just haven't been reading carefully).

Even if Pentax's camera division gets shut down, Samsung definitely isn't going anywhere. Since they're using Pentax designs for their current generation of dSLRs, couldn't we assume that they're going to stick with K-mount in future dSLR releases? Sony has the Minolta mount now and maybe Samsung will have the Pentax mount.
I think you're right. There's just too big of a built-in market out there for a digital camera that uses the K-mount. SOMEONE will grab onto that. So, I believe there will continue to be K-mount cameras and lenses. They just may not carry the Pentax name. I can live with that because it would make my existing Pentax lenses more valuable.
05-23-2007, 11:46 AM   #7
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I don't think it is a "can't" be bought out - its a cultural thing... maybe I'm wrong there... but either way, it wouldn't be buying out a company, just assests of one piece of a company. I actually think Samsung would be a better fit for Pentax than Hoya, except for the fact that Hoya is more likely to keep the name.
05-23-2007, 12:31 PM   #8
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I'm quite sure Samsung will only sell Samsung cameras, with Schneider lenses.

05-23-2007, 02:48 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I'm quite sure Samsung will only sell Samsung cameras, with Schneider lenses.
Of course. My above post was just pointing out that K-mount probably isn't going anywhere even if the Pentax name is in danger. Sure, I have some brand loyalty to Pentax and I'd be sad to see them go (if it happens), but I'm really more worried about my investment in the K-mount format. I'm hoping that Samsung will stick with K-mount so that I can keep my lenses, and just buy Samsung cameras in the future.

Again, this is only if Pentax's camera division gets shut down, which I don't think will happen, but I'm not a financial expert.
05-23-2007, 03:05 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by igowerf Quote
Of course. My above post was just pointing out that K-mount probably isn't going anywhere even if the Pentax name is in danger. Sure, I have some brand loyalty to Pentax and I'd be sad to see them go (if it happens), but I'm really more worried about my investment in the K-mount format. I'm hoping that Samsung will stick with K-mount so that I can keep my lenses, and just buy Samsung cameras in the future.

Again, this is only if Pentax's camera division gets shut down, which I don't think will happen, but I'm not a financial expert.

There's worse things in life than having to use Schneider lenses.
05-24-2007, 07:30 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by igowerf Quote
In all these discussions about Hoya and Pentax, I haven't seen anyone mention how Samsung factors into this (or maybe I just haven't been reading carefully).

Even if Pentax's camera division gets shut down, Samsung definitely isn't going anywhere. Since they're using Pentax designs for their current generation of dSLRs, couldn't we assume that they're going to stick with K-mount in future dSLR releases? Sony has the Minolta mount now and maybe Samsung will have the Pentax mount.
I don't think Samsung will takeover Pentax if when Hoya don't need Pentax (cameras) anymore.

Samsung will be happy as long as they can re-badge Pentax DSLRs and lenses to Samsung at the lowest possible costs of their own. But when Pentax becomes a true financial burden, they will have to hestitate.
05-24-2007, 08:21 PM   #12
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HaHA its like Nikon in the old days. Some of the engineers got pissed and left the company.

Thats where you got the birth of third party big names like Kiron and Tokina.
05-24-2007, 11:05 PM   #13
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6 months made all the difference ...

6 months made all the difference. Back in 2006-December, Hoya saw the camera division as a major burden. 6 months later, sales are up 250% total over last year and Pentax is raking a profit based on its hot-cakes selling K100D and K10D. I think Pentax has shown that if it keeps its focus, sells only 2 current camera products and an adequate set of lenses, it can be very profitable. If it tries to expand out from that, it only takes on a burden -- like Pentax did until more recently re-focusing on its 3, core, profitable industries.

The big issue with Pentax, beyond their size and R&D budget, is that the profit model today is to screw over your customer. That means selling a camera that does not maintain backward compatibility with lenses, and forces users to buy new lenses. So many consumers look at "entry costs" and don't look at the "total costs" -- especially not longevity, compatibility, re-usability, etc... The AF K-mount has been around for virtually 20 years, providing K100D and K10D owners a wealth of options, in addition to manual lenses of virtually 30 years. The fact that there is a company out there that still has the attitude that "we can make money, but still be about customer value" is probably the #1 reason I bought Pentax as my first dSLR.

As far as the Samsung, there are many factors. First off, Japan does not allow foreign companies to take major stakes in Japanese companies, only minor ones. Secondly, South Korea is virtually a facist-monopoly economic model -- not a capitalist one -- where government not merely promotes, but even sanctions, authorizes and, to some extent, controls monopolies -- especially conglomerates like LG, as well as foreign firms who wish to do any business (e.g., South Korea is one nation where running Linux on the alleged "open standard" Internet is virtually impossible, because of the absolute monopoly Microsoft has been granted). That deters Japan from even allowing a controlling share of one of its companies by a South Korean firm.

But if Samsung wants to further license Pentax technologies if and when Hoya is not interested in developing them further, that is quite a possibility. And nothing prevents Samsung from continuing to support the K-mount. In fact, these licenses may already be in place, at least to a certain extent. As an engineer who is commonly involved with IP details (not a lawyer, but I work with them regularly -- including writing contracts and agreements myself), I would be interested in knowing more about the current Pentax-Samsung licensing agreements in place. At some point Samsung may drop the K-mount in their line -- but they will most likely support it for awhile to gain marketshare.

Last edited by bjsmith; 05-24-2007 at 11:18 PM.
05-25-2007, 04:10 AM   #14
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That's what I think too. Especially about the cripped K-mount and traditional TTL flash support, which are the two major dirty spot which Pentax made to us, their long-time old users and supporters.

But then Pentax can really force their users to buy newer lenses and flashes by doing so in certain extents. However, their shortsighting makes them sell less cameras and they forget they are not Canon and Nikon and even they do the same thing as C and N, the effect and outcomes will not be the same!

QuoteOriginally posted by bjsmith Quote
6 months made all the difference. Back in 2006-December, Hoya saw the camera division as a major burden. 6 months later, sales are up 250% total over last year and Pentax is raking a profit based on its hot-cakes selling K100D and K10D. I think Pentax has shown that if it keeps its focus, sells only 2 current camera products and an adequate set of lenses, it can be very profitable. If it tries to expand out from that, it only takes on a burden -- like Pentax did until more recently re-focusing on its 3, core, profitable industries.

The big issue with Pentax, beyond their size and R&D budget, is that the profit model today is to screw over your customer. That means selling a camera that does not maintain backward compatibility with lenses, and forces users to buy new lenses. So many consumers look at "entry costs" and don't look at the "total costs" -- especially not longevity, compatibility, re-usability, etc... The AF K-mount has been around for virtually 20 years, providing K100D and K10D owners a wealth of options, in addition to manual lenses of virtually 30 years. The fact that there is a company out there that still has the attitude that "we can make money, but still be about customer value" is probably the #1 reason I bought Pentax as my first dSLR.

As far as the Samsung, there are many factors. First off, Japan does not allow foreign companies to take major stakes in Japanese companies, only minor ones. Secondly, South Korea is virtually a facist-monopoly economic model -- not a capitalist one -- where government not merely promotes, but even sanctions, authorizes and, to some extent, controls monopolies -- especially conglomerates like LG, as well as foreign firms who wish to do any business (e.g., South Korea is one nation where running Linux on the alleged "open standard" Internet is virtually impossible, because of the absolute monopoly Microsoft has been granted). That deters Japan from even allowing a controlling share of one of its companies by a South Korean firm.

But if Samsung wants to further license Pentax technologies if and when Hoya is not interested in developing them further, that is quite a possibility. And nothing prevents Samsung from continuing to support the K-mount. In fact, these licenses may already be in place, at least to a certain extent. As an engineer who is commonly involved with IP details (not a lawyer, but I work with them regularly -- including writing contracts and agreements myself), I would be interested in knowing more about the current Pentax-Samsung licensing agreements in place. At some point Samsung may drop the K-mount in their line -- but they will most likely support it for awhile to gain marketshare.
05-25-2007, 07:21 AM   #15
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Wasting Bandwidth...

Idle speculation - not accurate... not valuable... why bother?
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