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09-22-2009, 04:15 AM   #46
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Hi Ogl,
is this the same sensor as in the new Sony Alpha 500 ?

It would be really easy to compare three camera makers by the same sensor then.

I always preferred CCD sensors as they appeared to make better skin tones imo. OTOH if Pentax keeps going with this maker, a small format camera is much more likely to come, is it?

All the best, Georg (the speculator)

09-22-2009, 04:49 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by georgweb Quote
Hi Ogl,
is this the same sensor as in the new Sony Alpha 500 ?

It would be really easy to compare three camera makers by the same sensor then.

I always preferred CCD sensors as they appeared to make better skin tones imo. OTOH if Pentax keeps going with this maker, a small format camera is much more likely to come, is it?

All the best, Georg (the speculator)
It seems to me the dimension of sensor and image size are the same as in Nikon D90, D300/300s/D5000.

A500 has a bit smaller size.
09-22-2009, 05:05 AM   #48
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I'll walk a little further out on the ice :-)

Ogl, as far as I know the working outer edges of any sensor are used for having a dark portion (kind of frame) for the camera to compare against the light of the picture to better compensate for temperature differences and such. Some companies will include that dark edge into their data and some not. That considered, the Sony A500 could have the same sensor ?

Georg (on the sizzling ice)

Edit: This dubious source claims: "Pentax k-x use Sony EXMOR sensor,..."
I don't know. Sony made Pentax' sensors til the K20D. They make Nikon's sensors too. Why would they build a special sensor for their own make, not very likely.

Last edited by georgweb; 09-22-2009 at 05:38 AM.
09-22-2009, 07:11 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Sensor is a bit bigger, less MP.
We saw this sensor in D90, D300, D300s and D5000. Very good high ISO.
Thanks for the pointer. K-7 is more or less about equal to K20D in ISO noise and if the little brother beats its taller and older brother in its high ISO performance, that will make all K-7 crying babies to visit RHTrashyGreen blog page.

My friend, you owe it to me to clarify and prove it with certainty here; otherwise, the masses of potential customers of K-7 will venture to RHTrashyGreen for rumors and unproven opinions on K-x. Before you know it, RHTrashyGreen will claim his TrashyGreen Pentax K-m or his Canon 5D mkI does the best in noise. I should not help him with the speculation and publicity. But hey, if this has more solid evidence that we clarify here right now and debunk the future myths, we have done our job in keeping the correct information here.

And you all, please stay in PF and refrain from going to RHTrashyGreen. You owe it to HinTheMan, the silly dude who has waged a campaign to say NO to his friend, admirer and enemy RHTrashyGreen until his buddy in Hong Kong wakes up from doing EVIL to Pentax.

Warmest,
Hin


Last edited by hinman; 09-22-2009 at 07:17 AM.
09-22-2009, 07:38 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by hinman Quote
Thanks for the pointer. K-7 is more or less about equal to K20D in ISO noise

K-7 has NO NOISE REDUCTION in RAW till ISO below 1600. Start to work from ISO1600.

K20D and K-m has NR in RAW at ALL ISO. But K-m has better shadows.

K200D's NR in RAW start to work from ISO800.
09-22-2009, 11:39 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
K-7 has NO NOISE REDUCTION in RAW till ISO below 1600. Start to work from ISO1600.

K20D and K-m has NR in RAW at ALL ISO. But K-m has better shadows.

K200D's NR in RAW start to work from ISO800.
Are you sure about BOLDED statement?

I shot jpg in K20D and I recall the default setting is NO NR unless you set it in the customized options in NR in high ISO setting -- turn it to ON instead of OFF. I thought those settings apply to JPG for sure and RAW for some cases as in ISO, please confirm as I ain't sure. Why would I want NR in RAW in all ISO as a default, it does not make sense to me. Pentax preserve the BEST detail in the default settings at the expense of more noise. How sure are you that the K20D RAW has NR in all ISO?

Thanks buddy,
Hin
09-22-2009, 12:39 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
It seems to me the dimension of sensor and image size are the same as in Nikon D90, D300/300s/D5000.

A500 has a bit smaller size.
While the dimensions appear to match the D90, the ISO settings (200-6400, with 128000 expandable) match the A500 as opposed to the D90 (200-3200, 6400 expandable)

no one knows, infact no one even knows how good the a500 sensor really is yet, although someone did JPEG (with NR unfortunately) comparisons with FF Sony's and it kicked their butts.
09-22-2009, 03:49 PM   #53
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Whether the sensor for the K-x is identical to what other brands are also using is just one part of the equation. The image processing is what determines how good the images are.

09-22-2009, 08:07 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by jct us101 Quote
No, every camera has a base ISO of 200. 100 is a digitally downgraded version of 200.
LOL.

Would you please read about, how pulled ISOs are made on professional cameras? (and about that this leads to halfening of dynamic range, what doesn't happen to K10D shots at iso 100. Also please inverstigate about PS cameras with base ISO 50/64 and look at their shots at ISO 200).

ROLF.
09-22-2009, 08:54 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
Whether the sensor for the K-x is identical to what other brands are also using is just one part of the equation. The image processing is what determines how good the images are.
True. But if you start out with rotten eggs, its hard to make a good omelette! However, if you wanted to see which greasy spoon made the best omelette, give them eggs from the same hen house.
09-22-2009, 10:06 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by hinman Quote
Are you sure about BOLDED statement?

I shot jpg in K20D and I recall the default setting is NO NR unless you set it in the customized options in NR in high ISO setting -- turn it to ON instead of OFF. I thought those settings apply to JPG for sure and RAW for some cases as in ISO, please confirm as I ain't sure. Why would I want NR in RAW in all ISO as a default, it does not make sense to me. Pentax preserve the BEST detail in the default settings at the expense of more noise. How sure are you that the K20D RAW has NR in all ISO?

Thanks buddy,
Hin
I say only about RAW. I don't care JPEG - I don't use it.
Yes. It's 100% true.
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/66112-noisepeepers-strike-again-5.html

Production K-7 Dynamic Range vs. K20D... [Page 6]: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review
09-22-2009, 11:48 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
True. But if you start out with rotten eggs, its hard to make a good omelette! However, if you wanted to see which greasy spoon made the best omelette, give them eggs from the same hen house.
Good one
09-22-2009, 11:49 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by Eruditass Quote
While the dimensions appear to match the D90, the ISO settings (200-6400, with 128000 expandable) match the A500 as opposed to the D90 (200-3200, 6400 expandable)

no one knows, infact no one even knows how good the a500 sensor really is yet, although someone did JPEG (with NR unfortunately) comparisons with FF Sony's and it kicked their butts.
But K-m went to iso3200 and uses the same sensor as in K200D/K10D.

In fact, all this give us some idea but not much more. We'll have to judge on results.
09-23-2009, 02:32 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
True. But if you start out with rotten eggs, its hard to make a good omelette! However, if you wanted to see which greasy spoon made the best omelette, give them eggs from the same hen house.
Are but of course the eggs must first of all be cheap AND good.
I have every confidence the Pentax engineers can cook up a work of art getting the best images from the sensor and the processing algorithm.
Anyway I personally feel CMOS sensors give inherently nicer images than CCD sensors, so having a CMOS sensor on the K-x is a good thing (with the added benefit of lower power consumption).

Last edited by creampuff; 09-23-2009 at 02:37 AM.
09-25-2009, 12:32 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
But K-m went to iso3200 and uses the same sensor as in K200D/K10D.

In fact, all this give us some idea but not much more. We'll have to judge on results.
Good point. I sent pentax an email:

Which CMOS sensor is used in the K-x? Is it the
IMX021 (Sony A700), IMX038 (Nikon D90) or a newer one?

and got this:

Thank you for contacting Pentax.

The only information we have is that the sensor in the K-x is a brand new design from Sony. The K-x has the same Prime ll image processor as the K-7.

If you are in need of further assistance, please respond to this email or call our technical support center at 800-877-0155.

Sincerely,
xxxxxx xxxxxxx
Pentax Imaging Technical Support
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