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10-02-2009, 04:56 AM   #106
ogl
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
AF? Except the callibration, prove it.
Kit lens? Mmm again.
Bette IS? Prove it.
It's easy.
Kit
Olympus Zuiko Digital 14-42mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

IS
Olympus E-620 Review: 12. Performance: Digital Photography Review

AF = we will see, nobody use K-x. K-x has the same SAFOX VIII.

Low-end models of Oly has better lag and better speed, more responsive. Only in very bad light close to Pentax.

10-02-2009, 05:02 AM   #107
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QuoteQuote:
Low-end models of Oly has better lag and better speed, more responsive. Only in very bad light close to Pentax.
That's not true.
10-02-2009, 06:09 AM   #108
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QuoteOriginally posted by hopey Quote
That's not true.
I have E-420 and K200D.
10-02-2009, 06:18 AM   #109
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For whatever reason, people have the impression that the K200 was the holy grail of cameras. I guess it was a popular camera, but to me, it felt awfully close to the K20, particularly towards the end when the K20's price began to drop significantly. I know the K20 came out with an initial price of 1200 dollars, but toward the end of its life cycle, it was selling for around 650. At the same time, the k200 continued to sell for around 550 USD. One hundred dollars difference between your upper end camera and your "mid range" camera is not enough separation.

Certainly the K7 is selling for over 1000 dollars right now, but in 6 months it will certainly be in the 800 dollar range. At that point the Kx will be around 550 to 600. I think that it is planning ahead not to have a third camera wedged in the middle.

I would like to see weather sealing added to the whole line, but I think Pentax made good decisions with regard to what they included and didn't include in the kx's package.

10-02-2009, 07:08 AM   #110
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
And...
AF calibration for all focal length (included zooms) and for all AF points.



Olympus also has better AF than Pentax. E-620 has battery grip. Better kit lens. Better IS.
Now that is pretty cool, I can imagine taking a whole day trying to set that up...

I remember one big reason I wanted the Oly was the better IS - not inconsistant like the tests I had seen for Pentax. I just hoped that Pentax would eventually get it right because Oly cant "fix" their sensor size. Also, oly had the only dust reduction system that actually worked.

As for the lens, is there a review site that has both the Oly and the Pentax Mark II kit lens?
10-02-2009, 07:43 AM   #111
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
including the extremely profitable US$750-$1,000 range
Data, please.

QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Because the hottest sellers with by far the most margins come in the fat middle (read Toyota market data about the Camry), where Pentax has nothing.
Can't argue with this, Pentax DEFINITELY doesn't have anything to compete with the Toyota Camry.

Besides, isn't the K-7 a "Prosumer" or "Mid-Level" camera? Isn't that the "fat middle" you're talking about? It's not the high-end...it's not entry-level...so...what's your point again?
10-02-2009, 07:53 AM   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by ecoronin Quote
I think pentax should focus on more telephoto lenses. and a micro. They have enough cameras, they need to work on a solid set of lenses to compement K7 and K-x
I agree. Their macro line up needs to be updated ...the 35/f2.8 limited is the only APS-C macro in the line up and nothing longer than 300? A DA* super wide also is needed to round out the lineup.
10-02-2009, 08:05 AM   #113
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Boy it is hilarious to see the two K200D users earnestly making a case for a missing camera to cater for a little or non-existent market segment. Face it boys, the K200D (while a fine camera specifications wise) was a marketing test case that proved the market segment between entry and enthusiast grade was so slim that it just didn't sell in numbers and got discontinued pretty quick, just like the SR less K110D.

10-02-2009, 08:59 AM   #114
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
Boy it is hilarious to see the two K200D users earnestly making a case . . .
What the hell are you talking about?
10-02-2009, 10:22 AM   #115
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
What the hell are you talking about?
Talking about the dreamer from Siberia and the pseudo marketing guru Greek playwright...
10-02-2009, 10:53 AM   #116
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
I liked the choice from Pentax last year and the beggining of 2009:
K20D, K200D, K-m.

The choice of 2009 is rather unclear for me.
I see what you did there! Or, er, uh, no. Hmm, date? October 2nd, 2009. Check.

K20d - available.
K-m - available.
K200d - available.
K-7 - available.
K-x - pre-order.

(now this is Amazon USA, couldn't find their Siberia website)

Discontinued or not, you have 5 clear options (one of which you may even own, 3 of which you stated you even liked!!!) so please spare us ok?
10-02-2009, 11:01 AM   #117
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QuoteOriginally posted by Eruditass Quote
Now that is pretty cool, I can imagine taking a whole day trying to set that up...

I remember one big reason I wanted the Oly was the better IS - not inconsistant like the tests I had seen for Pentax. I just hoped that Pentax would eventually get it right because Oly cant "fix" their sensor size. Also, oly had the only dust reduction system that actually worked.

As for the lens, is there a review site that has both the Oly and the Pentax Mark II kit lens?

The IS for Pentax is said to have been improved and now even accounts for rotational shake. It will be interesting to see how tests reveal this to perform. Dust Removal while being a nice feature is not a substitute for cleaning it by hand periodically.

What I do like about the Oly is that it understands that the focus adjust needs to have different values on a zoom at the wide and tele end and for each of the individual focal points. From what i've heard though, it's a bit awkward to do so through the interface (and i don't understand why they didn't have a computer interface to this). Second, I don't quite understand how you would be able to accurately adjust all the individual points in a reproduceable way. a product like the LensAlign is already being used by people for just the centre focus point nevermind 11. I would have hoped that Olympus came up with some repeatable means of doing this with a mapped focusing chart. Still, very innovative and a step in the right direction I think.

As far as lens reviews to, I think Oly has made some great lens designs from the ground up for digital. I think photozone.de is starting to post reviews of the 4/3 lenses.
10-02-2009, 12:19 PM   #118
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QuoteOriginally posted by pxpaulx Quote
I see what you did there! Or, er, uh, no. Hmm, date? October 2nd, 2009. Check.

K20d - available.
K-m - available.
K200d - available.
K-7 - available.
K-x - pre-order.

(now this is Amazon USA, couldn't find their Siberia website)

Discontinued or not, you have 5 clear options (one of which you may even own, 3 of which you stated you even liked!!!) so please spare us ok?
No kidding, people are acting like Canon and Nikon have released a fully new lineup each quarter, completely with two entry options, several midrange options, a high end prosumer and a full frame.

Per the timelines on the Wiki, Canon's top two "flagship" models date from 07, the 1D MkIIIs, the high end 5D is from second quarter 08 with the 7D to come at the end of 09. The Prosumer 50D is from 08, the midrange the 500D/T1i dates from end of 08, with the entry level model T1 from Summer 09.

That gives Canon two current models, 7D high end line released third quarter 09 and the entry level Rebel T1. Other lines from previous years still readily available.


Nikon is similar, the D3X is from end 08, D3 from 07, D700 from 08. The popular D60 and D40 from 08 and 07 were just replaced mid 09 with the D5000 and D3000. The D300s in 09 is a minor upgrade to the D300 from mid 07.

That gives Nikon three current models, the high end D300s and the entry/midrange D5000 and D3000. Other models from previous years still readily available.

Once Pentax ships, it'll be in almost the same place, just without a full frame option. It'll have the two current models, the K-7 and the K-x, with K20D, K200D, and K-m readily available from 2008.

I know the availability and inventory in stores makes it look like Nikon and Canon have a wealth of cutting edge choices, but that's only because Pentax doesn't get much real estate for well known reasons. Really Canon and Nikon just have several years worth of models all sitting out like they were all current, and honestly, due to the nature of digital camera technology, the several years worth of previous models ARE sufficient for plenty more people than those same people are willing to admit. The K100D and K10D are still plenty of camera for more people than are willing to settle for them...
10-02-2009, 02:03 PM   #119
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
Boy it is hilarious to see the two K200D users earnestly making a case for a missing camera to cater for a little or non-existent market segment. Face it boys, the K200D (while a fine camera specifications wise) was a marketing test case that proved the market segment between entry and enthusiast grade was so slim that it just didn't sell in numbers and got discontinued pretty quick, just like the SR less K110D.
Actually, according to the Flickr data, it sold very well.

Did it cannibalize the K20D? Perhaps a bit. But the DP Review and other sites called it a very competitive model at that pice point compared to the competition, whereas the K20D was compared with models above and found to be, mediocre.

So, sub-$1,000, a Pentax model got great reviews and decent sales, above that they were just competitive, with decent sales. The K2000 did not last even a full cycle before getting replaced.

On Flickr Camera Finder for Nikon the ranks are:

D80 = 47.8 million
D40 = 34.2
D90 = 11.8
D300 = 17.0
D60 = 13.0
(extrapolate and regression on release dates, you'll still see which price point dominate)

Look more closely and you see that the D80/90 segment is responsible for 40% of their DSLR output. The D80 with the 18-70 lens was a runaway best seller at $999 in August 2006. I've still got my quote!

Higher margins at higher price points makes for better profits. Nikon probably netted $20 off each D40, and 6x that off each D80, but the manufacturing costs for each were probably not so dissimilar. You make your profits off your high-end, but only once the middle has recouped your investments. The low-end bolster gross revenues, even to the point of being a loss leader.

In this market, to gain (or regain) market share, you need that fat middle just under $1,000 starting price. Pentax is missing that lucrative, gross revenue, capital recouping part of the market. Most who hesitate to buy up to the K-7, or will not accept the compromises of a K-x, will find better value in another brand.
10-02-2009, 03:16 PM   #120
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Look more closely and you see that the D80/90 segment is responsible for 40% of their DSLR output. The D80 with the 18-70 lens was a runaway best seller at $999 in August 2006. I've still got my quote!
So hypothetically, you are given the choice of a D80 w/kit lens, or a K-x w/kit lens and $350 in your pocket.

Or to put it another way, you're pretty much calling the K-x a D50. I can't exactly put my finger on what you are arguing really, because you are shouting at me from 2006. This market moves faster than that, so you just hang onto your D80 then, ok?
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