Ned Bunnell says the Pentax 645D is coming!?!?!

ghelary · 09-25-2009, 03:04 AM

Oh,

Long time, we didn't see you posting Ben !

If the 645D is in the 8K € range as you said, then it will be a very agressive blow to the high end 35mm gear (Nikon D3x, Canon 1DsmkIII) and even to the medium format leaders like Hasselblad.

The "Salon de la Photo" will be held in Paris next month, this will be surely the time to see some more information about it and especially about the lens lineup.

Did you have the chance to hold the camera Ben ?

ogl · 09-25-2009, 03:44 AM

Originally posted by ghelary

Oh,

Long time, we didn't see you posting Ben !

If the 645D is in the 8K € range as you said, then it will be a very agressive blow to the high end 35mm gear (Nikon D3x, Canon 1DsmkIII) and even to the medium format leaders like Hasselblad.

ghelary · 09-25-2009, 04:44 AM

@ Ogl

Ben would be better at answering this thread, but if I were studio photographer looking for the best quality at a (relatively) low price I would much better choose a medium format system than a 35mm format.

6000 $ for body compared to 8000 €/$ is not that much of a difference, especially when the whole is taken into account like lighting, studio, accessories, lenses ....

So all in all, 8000 €/$ seems to be very competitive against those cameras from Nikon and Canon.

On the other side, Hasselblad is the leader for medium format gear, selling competing medium format body for half the price will be very tempting for potential buyers.

All in all, Pentax will be competing in 2 different slots.
- High end 35mm gear, because it is the same price,
- Medium format systems because it is its true nature (and it will be cheap)

Of course, the Pentax 645D will have also to be a good camera, but if this price point is true, I think it will be a hit among renters (shorter ROI), pros that need top quality of image at the price of bulk (like studio, wedding etc...)

pingflood · 09-25-2009, 05:34 AM

You can now get a Mamiya 22 MP medium format setup for a little over seven grand.

Mamiya | 645ZDb Digital SLR System | 310-150 | B&H Photo Video

Pentax will have to come up with something pretty special to compete at this point.

falconeye · 09-25-2009, 05:42 AM

Originally posted by pingflood

Mamiya 645ZDb Digital SLR System
Pentax will have to come up with something pretty special to compete at this point.

The Mamiya offers little advantage over, say a 5D2.

As others have said, the 645D also would have to be a good camera

It doesn't need to be a bargain.

pingflood · 09-25-2009, 05:50 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

The Mamiya offers little advantage over, say a 5D2.

As others have said, the 645D also would have to be a good camera

It doesn't need to be a bargain.

I'd imagine the dynamic range is a little better on the Mamiya.

ogl · 09-25-2009, 05:59 AM

Originally posted by pingflood

I'd imagine the dynamic range is a little better on the Mamiya.

It's film Camera Body + Sekor AF D 80mm f/2.8 Lens + 22 Megapixel ZDb Digital back. I doubt that such set is popular.

Special order.

As for DR -
A900 has very good DR, D3X too.

Not Registered · 09-25-2009, 09:09 AM

Originally posted by ghelary

6000 $ for body compared to 8000 €/$ is not that much of a difference, especially when the whole is taken into account like lighting, studio, accessories, lenses ....

So all in all, 8000 €/$ seems to be very competitive against those cameras from Nikon and Canon.

8000euros dont equal 8000USD. It is more like 12000 USD. So I would say that 6000 vs 12000 is a hefty difference.

Still, I think that the pentax would sell reasonably well but you cant expect to have that camera competing with Canon, Nikon or Sony. They are completely different systems and markets.

ghelary · 09-25-2009, 10:14 AM

@ Gruoso,

You can't take the Euro/dollar rate to convert prices in US to prices in European prices.

To get a rough conversion you can run a 1:1 conversion ratio, and you would get far from truth. Regarding camera gear, the noticable exeptions are Zeiss and Leica, maybe because they are European makers.

One of the worst example I saw of that is the price of a Photoshop CS4 licence. It is 900$ in US and 850€ in France without VAT and on the adobe store, that's nearly 50% more expensive to download on the same servers !!!

While prices are significantly lower in Germany as compared to France, US prices are a hudge bargain. Especially when taking into account that you add 20% VAT as compared to max 8% in US.

Regards,
Guillaume

adamkean · 09-26-2009, 07:10 AM

it would be a huge bust if it is over 12k usd,IMO

kristoffon · 09-27-2009, 08:50 AM

Originally posted by pingflood

You can now get a Mamiya 22 MP medium format setup for a little over seven grand.

Mamiya | 645ZDb Digital SLR System | 310-150 | B&H Photo Video

Pentax will have to come up with something pretty special to compete at this point.

That has lousy high ISO - only goes up to 400. That's the old generation of digital MF. Look at the new MF cameras they all have excellent high ISO, much better than the top of line Nikon and Canon 35mm as would be expected of a huge sensor. That Mamiya is outdated and therefore is not a valid comparison.

Certainly the Pentax would have very competitive high ISO taking advantage of current sensor technology. Otherwise, why bother?

lithos · 09-27-2009, 08:55 AM

Originally posted by kristoffon

Certainly the Pentax would have very competitive high ISO taking advantage of current sensor technology. Otherwise, why bother?

Aye. I'm not really keen on 30-odd MP of resolution, but if those big, fat sensels can be used to suck in light quickly and quietly...

ogl · 09-28-2009, 08:55 PM

After new announcements from Phase One + Schneider Kreuznach + Mamiya, Hasselblad HD4, Leica S2
I think that it's too late for Pentax to lauch 645D next spring; they've missed the boat...

Even price a bit lower than competitors couldn't help.

The professional photographer could choose new system if there are wide choice of lenses, good service and outstanding IQ.
But other brands had been offering this for a long years.
Pentax has gone from MF market several year ago, because Pentax cameras can't work with digital backs, stopped 645 and 67 film system and stopped to make lenses.
New digital MF camera in 2010 is like parody...I'd like to see successful comeback, but I doubt...
Sensor must be at least 39 MP.

I doubt that IQ from Pentax could be much better than Phase One digital backs or Mamiya.

The very important questions - who will buy Pentax 645D and how many users?

fejker · 09-28-2009, 11:53 PM

If they offer the 645D for around 6k € it would still be competitive. That is if they follow the Pentax tradition of making good quality bodies and lenses.

ogl · 09-29-2009, 12:26 AM

Originally posted by fejker

If they offer the 645D for around 6k € it would still be competitive. That is if they follow the Pentax tradition of making good quality bodies and lenses.

6000 euro sounds fantastic.
Old 645 lenses were made in Japan.
Japan factory is closed. Where are Japanese lens masters from this factory?
Discharged?

09-28-2009, 08:55 PM	#73
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	After new announcements from Phase One + Schneider Kreuznach + Mamiya, Hasselblad HD4, Leica S2 I think that it's too late for Pentax to lauch 645D next spring; they've missed the boat... Even price a bit lower than competitors couldn't help. The professional photographer could choose new system if there are wide choice of lenses, good service and outstanding IQ. But other brands had been offering this for a long years. Pentax has gone from MF market several year ago, because Pentax cameras can't work with digital backs, stopped 645 and 67 film system and stopped to make lenses. New digital MF camera in 2010 is like parody...I'd like to see successful comeback, but I doubt... Sensor must be at least 39 MP. I doubt that IQ from Pentax could be much better than Phase One digital backs or Mamiya. The very important questions - who will buy Pentax 645D and how many users? Last edited by ogl; 09-28-2009 at 09:10 PM.

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09-25-2009, 03:04 AM	#61
ghelary Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Paris, France Photos: Gallery Posts: 613	Oh, Long time, we didn't see you posting Ben ! If the 645D is in the 8K € range as you said, then it will be a very agressive blow to the high end 35mm gear (Nikon D3x, Canon 1DsmkIII) and even to the medium format leaders like Hasselblad. The "Salon de la Photo" will be held in Paris next month, this will be surely the time to see some more information about it and especially about the lens lineup. Did you have the chance to hold the camera Ben ?

09-25-2009, 03:44 AM	#62
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by ghelary Oh, Long time, we didn't see you posting Ben ! If the 645D is in the 8K € range as you said, then it will be a very agressive blow to the high end 35mm gear (Nikon D3x, Canon 1DsmkIII) and even to the medium format leaders like Hasselblad. Canon \| EOS-1Ds Mark III SLR Digital Camera \| 2011B002 \| B&H 1Ds Mark III is $6114.95 I think we need to have a look at MF cameras Hasselblad \| H3DII-31 SLR Digital Camera Kit with \| 70380550 Hasselblad H3DII-31 SLR Digital Camera Kit with 80mm Lens - $18 000 Mamiya \| DL28 Digital SLR Kit \| 320-001 \| B&H Photo Video Mamiya DL28 Digital SLR Kit - $15 000

09-25-2009, 04:44 AM	#63
ghelary Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Paris, France Photos: Gallery Posts: 613	@ Ogl Ben would be better at answering this thread, but if I were studio photographer looking for the best quality at a (relatively) low price I would much better choose a medium format system than a 35mm format. 6000 $ for body compared to 8000 €/$ is not that much of a difference, especially when the whole is taken into account like lighting, studio, accessories, lenses .... So all in all, 8000 €/$ seems to be very competitive against those cameras from Nikon and Canon. On the other side, Hasselblad is the leader for medium format gear, selling competing medium format body for half the price will be very tempting for potential buyers. All in all, Pentax will be competing in 2 different slots. - High end 35mm gear, because it is the same price, - Medium format systems because it is its true nature (and it will be cheap) Of course, the Pentax 645D will have also to be a good camera, but if this price point is true, I think it will be a hit among renters (shorter ROI), pros that need top quality of image at the price of bulk (like studio, wedding etc...)

09-25-2009, 05:34 AM	#64
pingflood Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Borås, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,169	You can now get a Mamiya 22 MP medium format setup for a little over seven grand. Mamiya \| 645ZDb Digital SLR System \| 310-150 \| B&H Photo Video Pentax will have to come up with something pretty special to compete at this point.

09-25-2009, 05:42 AM	#65
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by pingflood Mamiya 645ZDb Digital SLR System Pentax will have to come up with something pretty special to compete at this point. The Mamiya offers little advantage over, say a 5D2. As others have said, the 645D also would have to be a good camera It doesn't need to be a bargain.

09-25-2009, 05:50 AM	#66
pingflood Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Borås, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,169	Originally posted by falconeye The Mamiya offers little advantage over, say a 5D2. As others have said, the 645D also would have to be a good camera It doesn't need to be a bargain. I'd imagine the dynamic range is a little better on the Mamiya.

09-25-2009, 05:59 AM	#67
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by pingflood I'd imagine the dynamic range is a little better on the Mamiya. It's film Camera Body + Sekor AF D 80mm f/2.8 Lens + 22 Megapixel ZDb Digital back. I doubt that such set is popular. Special order. As for DR - A900 has very good DR, D3X too.

09-25-2009, 09:09 AM	#68
Not Registered Guest	Originally posted by ghelary 6000 $ for body compared to 8000 €/$ is not that much of a difference, especially when the whole is taken into account like lighting, studio, accessories, lenses .... So all in all, 8000 €/$ seems to be very competitive against those cameras from Nikon and Canon. 8000euros dont equal 8000USD. It is more like 12000 USD. So I would say that 6000 vs 12000 is a hefty difference. Still, I think that the pentax would sell reasonably well but you cant expect to have that camera competing with Canon, Nikon or Sony. They are completely different systems and markets.

09-25-2009, 10:14 AM	#69
ghelary Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Paris, France Photos: Gallery Posts: 613	@ Gruoso, You can't take the Euro/dollar rate to convert prices in US to prices in European prices. To get a rough conversion you can run a 1:1 conversion ratio, and you would get far from truth. Regarding camera gear, the noticable exeptions are Zeiss and Leica, maybe because they are European makers. One of the worst example I saw of that is the price of a Photoshop CS4 licence. It is 900$ in US and 850€ in France without VAT and on the adobe store, that's nearly 50% more expensive to download on the same servers !!! While prices are significantly lower in Germany as compared to France, US prices are a hudge bargain. Especially when taking into account that you add 20% VAT as compared to max 8% in US. Regards, Guillaume

09-26-2009, 07:10 AM	#70
adamkean Marketplace Reseller Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Kitchener/Waterloo, Ontario, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 223	it would be a huge bust if it is over 12k usd,IMO

09-27-2009, 08:50 AM	#71
kristoffon Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Brazil Posts: 532	Originally posted by pingflood You can now get a Mamiya 22 MP medium format setup for a little over seven grand. Mamiya \| 645ZDb Digital SLR System \| 310-150 \| B&H Photo Video Pentax will have to come up with something pretty special to compete at this point. That has lousy high ISO - only goes up to 400. That's the old generation of digital MF. Look at the new MF cameras they all have excellent high ISO, much better than the top of line Nikon and Canon 35mm as would be expected of a huge sensor. That Mamiya is outdated and therefore is not a valid comparison. Certainly the Pentax would have very competitive high ISO taking advantage of current sensor technology. Otherwise, why bother?

09-27-2009, 08:55 AM	#72
lithos Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Brisbane, QLD, AUS Posts: 3,261	Originally posted by kristoffon Certainly the Pentax would have very competitive high ISO taking advantage of current sensor technology. Otherwise, why bother? Aye. I'm not really keen on 30-odd MP of resolution, but if those big, fat sensels can be used to suck in light quickly and quietly...

09-28-2009, 11:53 PM	#74
fejker Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Slovenia Photos: Gallery Posts: 258	If they offer the 645D for around 6k € it would still be competitive. That is if they follow the Pentax tradition of making good quality bodies and lenses.

09-29-2009, 12:26 AM	#75
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by fejker If they offer the 645D for around 6k € it would still be competitive. That is if they follow the Pentax tradition of making good quality bodies and lenses. 6000 euro sounds fantastic. Old 645 lenses were made in Japan. Japan factory is closed. Where are Japanese lens masters from this factory? Discharged?