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09-20-2009, 08:24 PM   #16
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Bundled deals usually offer much better pricing.

One of the things I was looking for was a way to get that extra 55-300 lens.

Also I would probably keep the K200D as well so would want at least the basic 18-55 for both.

As for re-selling, nah I'm not into buying and selling gear.

I usually decide what I want, buy it and get good use out of it for life.

I tend to be a good little consumer, not a wheeler and dealer.

Buying just the body alone I don't think there will be enough of a price incentive.

Ah well, we'll see what happens.

.-.-.

QuoteOriginally posted by deadwolfbones Quote
Why not just keep the kit lens from your K200D and resell the DA-L lens?


09-20-2009, 08:37 PM   #17
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plastic lens mount is not as bad as everyone says it to be.

when i first got my camera, I had the lens in my backpack and forgot to zip it up and as a result it fell out and landed directly on the mount. The mount popped off, but it wasnt a problem. There was a slight scuff on it, but other than that I put it back on and it works as intended. If it were metal, I'm sure it would be bent and impossible to get it to mount.

What's more of an issue is lack of quick shift. This feature alone is worth the $ to get teh II version.
09-20-2009, 09:31 PM   #18
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Ohhhh forgot about the lack of quick shift on the L's

Might as well go for the blue version, then, since the lenses won't have any blue regardless. Keep my 18-55, sell the L. Sounds like a plan.
09-20-2009, 10:13 PM   #19
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What does the feature set of the K-x have to do with the lenses you can purchase as an option with the starter kit? If you already have a few lenses, why would you buy the kit anyway?

by the way, your K200D also has a penta-mirror, not a penta-prism.
Everyone has their own motives, but if I had a K200D, I wouldn't see the K-x as a logical next step. I'd go for a K20D unless you only want a camera with Video, and in that case, I'd hold off another 6 months until the K-7 price comes down, which it no doubt will.

Jason

09-20-2009, 11:11 PM   #20
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Well there are a few things at play here with me.

- Yes I want the video feature & live view.
- Yes I realise my K200D has a dull pentamirror (And I hate it).
- I refuse to own anything that uses custom Lithium batteries (So K7 is out).
- At least an extra 18-55 would be handy so both camera's have a basic lens.
- Package deals are always better value so buying just a K-x body would mean I would be penalised simply because I don't want the crap DA L lens's.

To me it's very obvious that the K-x has created an even bigger market gap necessitating the need to release a K200D replacement.

I also do wonder if the WR lens series are a bit of a hit that we will in fact see this in time.

.-.-.
09-20-2009, 11:48 PM   #21
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Another thing the K-x lacks which may be a dealbreaker for you (but befits its low-cost status, and was the same in the K-m/K2000) is that there's no in-viewfinder indication of the autofocus points. They can still be manually selected, but are only shown on the rear-panel LCD. There's no way to see which AF point you're selecting without taking your eye away from the viewfinder, nor to see which point the auto selection chose.

Personally, I prefer custom lithium-ion batteries because they have much higher energy density than NiMH AAs. Consider for examply my 1.2 volt, 2500mAh AAs which weigh thirty grams apiece, and yield 3 watt hours. The Pentax custom li-ion weighs 75 grams, and yields 14 watt hours. That's nearly double the energy density - 5.35g/Wh for the custom vs. 10g/Wh for the AAs. To match the power output of the 75 gram custom battery you'd need 140 grams of AAs.

If you're absolutely stuck on using AA batteries, remember that the K-7's optional portrait grip will accept six AA batteries. These can either supplement the camera's custom lithium-ion, or replace it. The body will function just fine with no battery in it, and AAs in the grip. If using both types, you can also select which should be used first. It is also weather-resistant, and makes portrait-mode shooting more comfortable, since it duplicates the main controls.

It does add a bit to the size and body weight, but given that the K-7 is much smaller and a bit lighter than its main competition, it isn't unwieldy with the grip attached and is probably better balanced. For reference, the grip itself with empty AA battery tray weighs 265 grams, or 250g with the empty tray for a second custom lithium ion. With six AAs alone you'll get 18 watt hours - a bit more life than the 14 watt hour custom cell. Couple the AAs with a custom battery in-body, and you've got a whopping 32 watt hours of power on tap.

I must admit I got the grip mainly for the ability to use AAs - but as a backup in a pinch should I be unable to charge my custom battery. Otherwise, I just find AAs to be less convenient overall - the battery charger is bigger, they weigh more, and they're more fiddly to change in a rush. It's nice to know I can use them if I absolutely have to, but that's about it for me... To each his own, though.
09-21-2009, 12:41 AM   #22
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Wow, the bad news just keeps a coming!

Thanks for the heads up on the no in viewfinder focus spot indicators.

Nup, definitely back on the bench for me waiting to see what else Pentax brings out in the future.

It's a shame really all the way through I just tried and tried to be flexible.

As for the great lithium Ion vs NiMh AA debate yea well we've been down that trial before. There are pro's and con's in both camps. But honestly capacity wise the AA's aren't that far behind the LiIon's any more. 4x AA's at 2900mAh == 13920 mWatts.

And they are far cheaper and easier to get a hold of and have spares of as backups.

I've had my fill of custom LiIon technology with the Sony handy cam's. Never again.

But as you say each to their own.

.-.-.
09-21-2009, 12:46 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by vk4akp Quote
Well there are a few things at play here with me.

- Yes I want the video feature & live view.
- Yes I realise my K200D has a dull pentamirror (And I hate it).
- I refuse to own anything that uses custom Lithium batteries (So K7 is out).
- At least an extra 18-55 would be handy so both camera's have a basic lens.
- Package deals are always better value so buying just a K-x body would mean I would be penalised simply because I don't want the crap DA L lens's.

To me it's very obvious that the K-x has created an even bigger market gap necessitating the need to release a K200D replacement.

I also do wonder if the WR lens series are a bit of a hit that we will in fact see this in time.

.-.-.
"- Package deals are always better value so buying just a K-x body would mean I would be penalised simply because I don't want the crap DA L lens's."

How is this a penalty? If you don't want the lenses in the package deal, then why are you concerned with the "deal" itself of the body and lenses? Just buy the body and use your existing lenses.

About the batteries, you are going to severely limit your future choices based on what most see as a very minor differences (lithium or AA's)

No offense, but you seem to be focusing on the obstacles instead of the opportunities.

Jason

09-21-2009, 12:50 AM   #24
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I would add this...If I were in your position, I would concentrate on upgrading your existing lenses and get some good glass rather than focusing on another similar body, with the same or similar lenses you have now. Using the kit lenses on either model is only going to get you so far when it comes to getting the most out of the camera.

Jason
09-21-2009, 01:13 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jasvox Quote
About the batteries, you are going to severely limit your future choices based on what most see as a very minor differences (lithium or AA's)
Not only future choices, it severely limits his current choices as well. The only company I can think of that even offers an AA-based interchangeable lens digital camera any more is Pentax - every other company has switched solely to Li-Ion custom packs. OK, his investment in glass may already tend to limit him to Pentax anyway and hence the battery choice might not be a huge limitation yet, but still... the widespread adoption should suggest something about the logic of the choice (for most purposes). ;-)

Like I pointed out, you literally double the weight of the batteries by sticking with AA, on like for like power. Yes vk4akp, you can almost match the power of one custom cell with four AAs these days, but I can carry two custom cells for the weight of those AAs and still have double your battery life.

AFAIK, others are successfully using third-party clones of Pentax's batteries with good results. I've not tried them myself yet, but personally I'd be a lot more concerned about the image quality, ergonomics and exposure capabilities of the camera than I would about a relatively minor difference in battery types. Get the battery grip and some third-party custom batteries, and you can still always use AAs should there be no alternative - there's nothing wrong with a belt and suspenders approach to life. :-)
09-21-2009, 04:53 AM   #26
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Plastic lens mount has been around for years without trouble. It is common since the early 90's on entry level bodies and lenses from Canon, Nikon, Minolta - and since some years also Pentax. It is not the big problem you seem to make of it.

Also note that the K-x has pentamirror, just like the K200D. None of them has pentaprism. Pentax invented the pentamirror and offers the best out there. Pentamirrors are very common on entry level DSLR's.

The LCD on the top has moved to the back of the camera, simply to allow for one-handed operation so the command dial had to be on the top right so the camera can be operated by one hand. This is a control layout common for entry level DSLR's, just look at Canon, Nikon, Olympus and Sony. They all do it.

The advantage of having the information on the back LCD instead of on a tiny top LCD, is that the information can be larger and more user friendly, with more options displayed. The K-x is intended for newcomers to DSLR's, so a tiny LCD with cryptic icons and numbers wasn't seen as the most informative option.

QuickShift-focus was removed from the DA L-lenses in order to offer a cheaper alternative to the other DA-lenses. You can still buy the 18-55, 50-200 and 50-300 with QuickShift focus, if you wish to pay the extra for it.

The DA L 18-55 has the same optics as the 18-55 MkII and WR, so it is not inferior. It has a better optical formula than the original DA 18-55. It is silly to call it "crap", it is one of the best performing kit lenses out there!

I see the K-x as a very solid offering at a competetive price.
09-21-2009, 05:33 AM   #27
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TBH I have never seen the big deal about quick shift focus on the standard consumer zooms - I don't much like tinkering around, barely reaching it with your index finger (especially on something like the 55-300, which is a quite long lens). On the 50-135 that is another story, with a 2-inch wide focus ring quick-shift becomes a great, useable value.

I would echo Jasvox' sentiment - obviously you aren't finding what you want in the K-x - since you were going to spend the money on a new body without selling the old, spend that money on some better glass instead - at some point you have to realize the lenses you use limit your photography - figure out (if you haven't yet) what kind of photos you enjoy taking most, then go out and buy a lens that will add to that experience.

Personally I am looking forward to the K-x as a great 2nd body (and camera for occasional vids, as well as a P&S replacement for my wife).
09-21-2009, 08:09 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jasvox Quote
What does the feature set of the K-x have to do with the lenses you can purchase as an option with the starter kit? If you already have a few lenses, why would you buy the kit anyway?
Because it's not available body-only (yet)?
09-21-2009, 09:22 AM   #29
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I am sure this will be temporary, just like every other body ever released.

Jason
09-21-2009, 09:33 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by knoxploration Quote
Like I pointed out, you literally double the weight of the batteries by sticking with AA, on like for like power. Yes vk4akp, you can almost match the power of one custom cell with four AAs these days, but I can carry two custom cells for the weight of those AAs and still have double your battery life.
Are they really that light? I always thought Lithium-AA's are really light..

I like having the flexibility of standard batteries, because when they get upgraded (and they will) in the future, your old camera gets an upgrade, along with any other electronics you carry that use AA's . You can choose light and long-lasting lithium vs cheap and rechargable. If you use the (heavier) NiMH the chargers are generic and cheap, with cheap car or USB charging adapters.

AA's are a notable positive for me, but many other features are ranked higher than that for me.

Last edited by Eruditass; 09-21-2009 at 09:59 AM.
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