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09-21-2009, 09:45 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
If we read OFFICIAL press-conference of HOYA
ƒyƒ“ƒ^ƒbƒNƒX�A�uK-x�v”*•\‰‚�gƒRƒŒƒWƒƒƒiƒCƒ�ƒ{ƒ‚ƒfƒ‹�h‚”*•\ - ƒfƒWƒJƒ�Watch

we can understand that HOYA present K-x as K-x is new middle-end camera for EVERYONE, NOT K-m replacement.



left - entry-level, right - middle-end.

HOYA declares that 4.7 FPS, VIDEO, LV, ISO6400 and 1/6000 makes K-x as MIDDLE-END camera with price of entry-level.

I will test it.
There you go again ogl...
As I stated earlier in the other thread that was closed,
Pentax doesn't claim the K-x is a mid-level camera at all. This was just a chart to show how the K-x is positioned compared to the competition at different price points 100,000 Yen and 150,000 Yen based on the 4 criteria (Megapixel, Max ISO, fps and Max shutter speed). Again I think you're reading too much into it and coming up with your own erroneous conclusions about it being a mid-level camera.

09-21-2009, 10:09 PM   #17
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Kill me, creampuff. My version of press-conference - see above.

Anyway, I plan to buy K-x.

Last edited by ogl; 09-21-2009 at 11:56 PM.
09-21-2009, 11:52 PM   #18
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Great, all we need to wait for now is info on the K20D replacement!

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09-22-2009, 12:11 AM   #19
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Where was the "intermediate" model during the K100D & K10D days? Or K200D & K20D days?

Having more models creates confusion and segmentation. You can afford to do that, and may even be beneficial, if you are the big shots; basically, you can afford to stretch yourself and try to cater to all the different demands, since client retention is your primary objective (Canon/Nikon).

Having a very clear-cut chioce between few focused models is smart for smaller players like Pentax (same goes for Panasonic and Olympus). You want to target market segments where most of the money is. (cf. Apple product lineup).


K-m/K-x caters to the entry level / sports mom / casual shooter segment where arguably most of the money, and new clients, are. K-7 caters to the "bit-serious, but probably not-pro" segment. People who fall between the two will bitch and moan about the lack of this feature or that feature in this hypothetical "K200D replacement" and will never come to a consensus.

So, what should Pentax put in and leave out from this K300D?? Trust me, y'all will want different things so that if Pentax put out such a camera, half of you will complain about it's shortcomings. So, what should Pentax do then? Put out *another* model that will satisfy the other 50%, and further segment their lineup? This, after spending extra R&D for this hypothetical third tier? Not smart. Not smart at all.


What *could* happen is that they release a souped up version of the K-x (kinda like the K100D Super of yesteryear). Something similar to the SE (Special Edition) iMacs of the past. Adding the little som'n som'n to make it a little special for additional mula. Maybe different body casing and WR.

09-22-2009, 01:19 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by RawheaD Quote
Where was the "intermediate" model during the K100D & K10D days? Or K200D & K20D days?
K100D was the intermediate model - the budget model was K110D. I guess they had a 2-camera lineup (K200D + K20D) for a very short time (when was the K100D Super discontinued?) before the K-m was introduced?
09-22-2009, 02:04 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
K100D was the intermediate model - the budget model was K110D. I guess they had a 2-camera lineup (K200D + K20D) for a very short time (when was the K100D Super discontinued?) before the K-m was introduced?
No that's not the case. The only difference between the K100D and the K110D was that the K110D lacked SR and had a different coloured mode dial. Both were entry-level cameras. The K100D was the first Pentax camera to offer Shake Reduction and I believe the old conservative Pentax folks (pre-Hoya) were unsure if consumers would pay the slight difference in price to get SR, hence the cheaper K110D as a fall back alternative. Once SR was demonstrably proven and consumers opted for the K100D, the K110D was quickly discontinued.

I would argue the K200D was also discontinued because it failed to sell in numbers. While it had a decent feature set, straddling between the entry and enthusiast models, it was too much camera for the first time buyer but too little camera for the serious enthusiast.

Companies that churn out too many models in quick succession risk buyer confusion as there is little to distinguish one model from the other. The plethora of models from Sony, Canon and Nikon is in my mind a desperate attempt to hone in on a sweet spot market segment or to cover all bases to enlarge market share. Even though these companies may have the production capacity to quickly churn out a new model, I personally believe such a strategy works against them in the long run.
09-22-2009, 02:42 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
No that's not the case. The only difference between the K100D and the K110D was that the K110D lacked SR and had a different coloured mode dial. Both were entry-level cameras.
I know they were identical except for the SR, but nevertheless, the K110D was a budget version, so they had three price classes. In some respects, and despite a bit weak on some performance measures, both were a bit above the entry-level with their top LCD, 11 AF points and lots of controls.

QuoteQuote:
I would argue the K200D was also discontinued because it failed to sell in numbers.
I wonder how much it really sold? Interestingly, it still figures in the bcnranking.jp Japanese sales ranking from last week.

QuoteQuote:
Companies that churn out too many models in quick succession risk buyer confusion as there is little to distinguish one model from the other. The plethora of models from Sony, Canon and Nikon is in my mind a desperate attempt to hone in on a sweet spot market segment or to cover all bases to enlarge market share. Even though these companies may have the production capacity to quickly churn out a new model, I personally believe such a strategy works against them in the long run.
I agree. Apple is an interesting case in point here (both mac models vs. PC models and even more the 2 or 3 iPhone models vs. e.g. 72 Nokia models).
09-22-2009, 02:54 AM   #23
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For me, very good feature of K-x is shutter from K-7.
A bit downgrade, till 1/6000, but 100 000 shots.

09-22-2009, 02:57 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
K100D was the intermediate model - the budget model was K110D. I guess they had a 2-camera lineup (K200D + K20D) for a very short time (when was the K100D Super discontinued?) before the K-m was introduced?
Pentax has only 2 BASE BODY lines.
Always.

D / DS-DL(2)
K10D / K100D/110/100D super
K20D / K200D
K-7/ K-m/K-x
09-22-2009, 02:58 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
I would argue the K200D was also discontinued because it failed to sell in numbers. While it had a decent feature set, straddling between the entry and enthusiast models, it was too much camera for the first time buyer but too little camera for the serious enthusiast.
Japanese statistic says K200D has 1.6% Japanese DSLR market, K20D - 3 times worse.

bcnranking.jp has published a report of the annual sales results and figures of different "popular" (20 top-selling) DSLR models, in the percentage of market share per total number of units sold, throughout the period of 2008-1-1 to 2008-12-21, in the Japanese home market
http://bcnranking.jp/news/0812/081228_12821.html

http://www.akihabaranews.com/en/news-17248-The+20+bestseller+DSLR+in+Japan+this+Year.html
09-22-2009, 03:04 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
I know they were identical except for the SR, but nevertheless, the K110D was a budget version, so they had three price classes.
I wouldn't count the K110D as a class in itself, just because it was few $$ cheaper.
09-22-2009, 04:57 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by RawheaD Quote
Having more models creates confusion and segmentation.
I think we have confusion and could use segementation.
09-22-2009, 05:03 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by RawheaD Quote

Having more models creates confusion and segmentation. You can afford to do that, and may even be beneficial, if you are the big shots; basically, you can afford to stretch yourself and try to cater to all the different demands, since client retention is your primary objective (Canon/Nikon).
The confusion are only 2 cameras from Pentax.
K-7 - $1250
K-x -$650.

Olympus, Sony, Canon and Nikon offer big choice for the customers and nobody are in confusion.
Hoya is not smaller than Nikon, for example.
09-22-2009, 07:00 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
The confusion are only 2 cameras from Pentax.
K-7 - $1250
K-x -$650.

Olympus, Sony, Canon and Nikon offer big choice for the customers and nobody are in confusion.
Hoya is not smaller than Nikon, for example.
Well, they haven't discontinued the K-m yet, so there are still 3 cameras... but I agree with you that the price gap is huge.

My guess: Pentax will/need to do one of the following:

1) introduce a camera somewhere in between K-x and K-7 (with feature set more similar to K200D, e.g. AF confirmation, weather sealings and top LCD). If this makes the K-7 look less attractive, they may also introduce a "face lift" of the K-7.

2) OR - and this might be more probable: They've got an even better camera than the K-7 ready for some time next year. Probably still APS-C, but with even better features than the K-7. Then they could make K-7 the medium featured camera.
09-22-2009, 07:21 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
My guess: Pentax will/need to do one of the following:

1) introduce a camera somewhere in between K-x and K-7 (with feature set more similar to K200D, e.g. AF confirmation, weather sealings and top LCD). If this makes the K-7 look less attractive, they may also introduce a "face lift" of the K-7.

2) OR - and this might be more probable: They've got an even better camera than the K-7 ready for some time next year. Probably still APS-C, but with even better features than the K-7. Then they could make K-7 the medium featured camera.
OR 3) market the K-x, the K-7 and the pro-level FF camera or 645D.
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