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09-25-2009, 03:12 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by mtroute Quote
your assuming of course that Pentax and the other camera manufactures are providing a level playing field. I would suspect that they do not offer the same pricing for all dealers and that high volume dealers get volume pricing and local dealers get shafted.

The little guy has a hard time competing when they have to buy their stock at a higher price than the B&H, Adoramas of the world sell it for...
That is precisely what the little guys like Wolf/Ritz need to tell Pentax - you give us better deals, otherwise nobody is gonna know what a Pentax feels like. Tax is also a big problem for the brick and mortar folks.

Personally, I would prefer to buy from my local Wolf as long as the price + tax differential is not more than 5-10%.

09-25-2009, 03:41 PM   #17
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Some of you people talk like a DSLR is some alien product you have never seen in person and need to touch it first.
09-25-2009, 06:34 PM   #18
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Gateway 2000 tried this with computers

QuoteOriginally posted by BB_Zone28 Quote
I wonder if this ideas has been suggested or tried...

The local camera store would offer the similar prices to online, but the store would have to order it for the customer instead of selling the one off the shelf. No shipping cost, but pay sales tax and customer pays for it before it's ordered. So the customer has to wait just as if ordered online, but gains benefit of having someone show them the product before ordering. However, offer to sell items off-the-shelf for extra if the customer has to have it NOW! That way the store can show that same camera to the next guy instead of waiting for another one to arrive. That also keeps inventory costs way down and helps keep things available for pros who need something that day for a last minute job that pops up.
Remember Gateway computers? They tried this approach with their Gateway stores. It didn't work. In their case, the store was just a showroom, where customers could try the different models and options. The computer was then ordered and shipped direct to the customer's home/office.

Their problem was that they DID charge shipping, so the customer had the worst of both worlds; you still had to wait like a mail-order purchase, but you had to pay local sales tax. Worse, because Gateway now had a "nexus" in the state, even those who went directly to the Gateway website or placed a phone order, still had to pay local sales tax (at least, that's how it worked in Ohio).

Even if Pentax did not charge shipping, this business model would take some getting used to. Still, it might work.
09-25-2009, 07:32 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentax_XTC Quote
I know for one I would like to go to a Wolf/Ritz and handle a new Pentax product before buying it online.
I'm guessing you live in a place where the downtown is dying and Walmart is king. You probably don't even care why. Enjoy your declining property values and standard of living!

09-25-2009, 07:58 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by mtroute Quote
your assuming of course that Pentax and the other camera manufactures are providing a level playing field. I would suspect that they do not offer the same pricing for all dealers and that high volume dealers get volume pricing and local dealers get shafted.

The little guy has a hard time competing when they have to buy their stock at a higher price than the B&H, Adoramas of the world sell it for...
B&H and Adorama didn't start out big, they grew. They aren't Walmart, Costco, or even Best Buy and yet their pricing in better on a lot of merchandise than these large volume dealers.

Last time I was in Adorama, the retail space in the store was less than my local Ritz. Multiply that by 800 stores and then explain to me again how Adorama offered better prices than Ritz? Even when I had no idea about cameras yet alone B&H or Adorama, I knew about Ritz Camera stores. So how is it that B&H and Adorama are the first places I'll recommend now?

I am in luck in that I have a number of independent camera stores where I live. I can tell you they all have a couple of things in common, higher prices and a lousy web page. If I didn't know any of them from being in their B&M stores, I wouldn't touch their web sites. I actually don't touch their web pages because it is easier just to go to the store and look.

The world has changed, at least have a store on Amazon, an Ebay store, and a decent web commerce site if you have a specialized B&M store like a camera store. Accept Paypal, Google Checkout, all credit cards, and offer free shipping on expensive but light weight merchandise. Answer email, telephones, and it wouldn't hurt to have a live chat option. Returns have be simple and at no charge. Does any of that sound like your local camera store?

Thank you
Russell
09-25-2009, 08:17 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by noblepa Quote
Remember Gateway computers? They tried this approach with their Gateway stores. It didn't work. In their case, the store was just a showroom, where customers could try the different models and options. The computer was then ordered and shipped direct to the customer's home/office.

Their problem was that they DID charge shipping, so the customer had the worst of both worlds; you still had to wait like a mail-order purchase, but you had to pay local sales tax. Worse, because Gateway now had a "nexus" in the state, even those who went directly to the Gateway website or placed a phone order, still had to pay local sales tax (at least, that's how it worked in Ohio).

Even if Pentax did not charge shipping, this business model would take some getting used to. Still, it might work.
B&M stores can and do carry nearly full-line Pentax - Creve Couer Camera does in St. Louis. Look what's featured on the upper left Creve Couer Camera (In Stock Now)

Gateway had already been upstaged by Michael Dell's superior supply chain management by the time they tried the stores. The Waite brothers also had differing visions; one bought out the other, but the associated debt finally crushed Gateway. They truly couldn't afford to absorb the shipping cost.

My first three desktop PC's were Gateways. I recall paying an extra $40 for a 40Mb hard drive in place of the standard 20Mb, and something extra for a full Meg of RAM.

The showroom business model might work, but Pentax's problem is it neither consumer nor pro. Not enough volume to create a self-sustaining marketing engine; not enough accessories and support to attract the true professional market.

Hoya would need to invest buckets of money to build the brand and production capacity for a full line of lenses and bodies, and someone else would need to invest buckets of money in technology (sensor, shutter, AF) to really compete with Canon, Nikon and Sony.

Better to stay a quirky, innovative, low-volume, high-margin brand, build loyalty, and gradually gain market share, ala Subaru.

Everybody ignores Subaru except Subaru drivers.

Last edited by monochrome; 09-25-2009 at 08:30 PM.
09-25-2009, 08:18 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Russell-Evans Quote
I am in luck in that I have a number of independent camera stores where I live. I can tell you they all have a couple of things in common, higher prices and a lousy web page. If I didn't know any of them from being in their B&M stores, I wouldn't touch their web sites. I actually don't touch their web pages because it is easier just to go to the store and look.

The world has changed, at least have a store on Amazon, an Ebay store, and a decent web commerce site if you have a specialized B&M store like a camera store. Accept Paypal, Google Checkout, all credit cards, and offer free shipping on expensive but light weight merchandise. Answer email, telephones, and it wouldn't hurt to have a live chat option. Returns have be simple and at no charge. Does any of that sound like your local camera store?

Thank you
Russell
I am in the same boat, we have national camera exchange here in the twin cities. Their website is pretty terrible. I will occasionally find good deals on used lenses - everytime I am in they say I should check the website to see the inventory, and yet everytime I actually go in there are 2-3 nice lenses that are not listed on the website! And when it comes to new equipment I have no qualms about going there to give something a whirl (though only the main store carries any new pentax now). I dont feel too bad because I bite my tongue for them when they start pushing their $35 2x2gb memory card packs. what a steal (for them!). And yet whenever I am in there, the lines at the front counter are 2-3 people deep (if you want to handle a camera, you get the full treatment!)
09-26-2009, 08:16 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by pxpaulx Quote
I am in the same boat, we have national camera exchange here in the twin cities. Their website is pretty terrible. I will occasionally find good deals on used lenses - everytime I am in they say I should check the website to see the inventory, and yet everytime I actually go in there are 2-3 nice lenses that are not listed on the website! And when it comes to new equipment I have no qualms about going there to give something a whirl (though only the main store carries any new pentax now). I dont feel too bad because I bite my tongue for them when they start pushing their $35 2x2gb memory card packs. what a steal (for them!). And yet whenever I am in there, the lines at the front counter are 2-3 people deep (if you want to handle a camera, you get the full treatment!)
A couple weeks ago, I was in the Burnsville National Camera and I politely asked why they didn't have a K7 on display. He said every time they get one in it sells quickly -- thus no display. Maybe he was just trying to make me feel good about being a pentax owner? I am not sure.

09-26-2009, 08:58 AM   #24
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Ouch, K-7 in cart is $1299.

Ouch, K-7 in my cart is "$1299"

K-7 are already selling elsewhere for $150 below it's launch price, why pay full price for K-7 when its $1,150 thesedays?

Pentax always sheds issue price quickly & its a repeatable history dating back to my first and only Pentax film camera purchase from them some 7 years ago. It dropped by 1/2 in 6 months. Silly me. I didn't know any better back then.

Eager Pentaxians who are first in line to buy first couple months always pay a premium, an inflated launch price.

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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
B&M stores can and do carry nearly full-line Pentax - Creve Couer Camera does in St. Louis. Look what's featured on the upper left Creve Couer Camera (In Stock Now)

Gateway had already been upstaged by Michael Dell's superior supply chain management by the time they tried the stores. The Waite brothers also had differing visions; one bought out the other, but the associated debt finally crushed Gateway. They truly couldn't afford to absorb the shipping cost.

My first three desktop PC's were Gateways. I recall paying an extra $40 for a 40Mb hard drive in place of the standard 20Mb, and something extra for a full Meg of RAM.

The showroom business model might work, but Pentax's problem is it neither consumer nor pro. Not enough volume to create a self-sustaining marketing engine; not enough accessories and support to attract the true professional market.

Hoya would need to invest buckets of money to build the brand and production capacity for a full line of lenses and bodies, and someone else would need to invest buckets of money in technology (sensor, shutter, AF) to really compete with Canon, Nikon and Sony.

Better to stay a quirky, innovative, low-volume, high-margin brand, build loyalty, and gradually gain market share, ala Subaru.

Everybody ignores Subaru except Subaru drivers.
09-26-2009, 09:20 AM   #25
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Well with the horrible new lens pricing by Hoya... The cameras and lenses have finally reached Ritz prices... So there will be no need to buy online.
09-26-2009, 12:12 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by apisto Quote
A couple weeks ago, I was in the Burnsville National Camera and I politely asked why they didn't have a K7 on display. He said every time they get one in it sells quickly -- thus no display. Maybe he was just trying to make me feel good about being a pentax owner? I am not sure.
Yeah, the burnsville location, if I start talking pentax with them in particular the sky seems to be falling. They dont care much for the brand there and probably were just being nice! Other locations seem to like pentax alittle more, at least I dont get the feeling they are giving me the nikanon 'nice try' pat on the head. When I went to the pentax event in july (for the k7 launch), it was my understanding it pretty much took them making a trip to the apple valley store to get them to even carry the k7. maybe they have a model in the back for a serious buyer, but they definitely dont care to point you in the pentax direction. I think the type of consumer they cater to, that the K-x will be a better seller - if they can pull themselves away from the nikon and canon sales kickbacks, and get the Kx on the shelf.
09-26-2009, 12:54 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by pxpaulx Quote
Yeah, the burnsville location, if I start talking pentax with them in particular the sky seems to be falling. They dont care much for the brand there and probably were just being nice! Other locations seem to like pentax alittle more, at least I dont get the feeling they are giving me the nikanon 'nice try' pat on the head. When I went to the pentax event in july (for the k7 launch), it was my understanding it pretty much took them making a trip to the apple valley store to get them to even carry the k7. maybe they have a model in the back for a serious buyer, but they definitely dont care to point you in the pentax direction. I think the type of consumer they cater to, that the K-x will be a better seller - if they can pull themselves away from the nikon and canon sales kickbacks, and get the Kx on the shelf.
Actually the young guys behind the counter at the Burnsville store seem open to pentax to me. The Roseville store is where I get the cold shoulder when I mention pentax. I must say something else abbout the Burnsville store: They have like 10 of those Nikon posters with that idiot Ashton Kutcher up on the walls there. They really need to tone it down a little!
09-26-2009, 01:16 PM   #28
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I feel sorry for some of you guys... my local photo store has K-7's lining the shelves, and K2000's. K-x's soon I can only imagine. along with canon, nikon and olympus. above those shelves are shelves jam packed with vintage bodies and lenses. not one poster from any major manufacturer that I have seen.
09-26-2009, 05:03 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentax_XTC Quote
I picked up a reflector kit from my local Ritz/Wolf camera store and happened to find a Pentax shooting employee. He said that since the bankruptcy is over and Mr. Ritz bought the company back they are currently in negotiations with Pentax again. He said that they are hoping to get something solid before the holiday season so that they don't lose out on the Christmas sales.

Even though I buy from Adorama and B&H, I have to say that if Pentax does get back into Wolf/Ritz it might help thier exposure to the public(no pun intended ). I know for one I would like to go to a Wolf/Ritz and handle a new Pentax product before buying it online.

This is just from an employee, but maybe there is someone else that can help me colaborate this rumor with evidence/other sources point to the same thing.
I agree with you and with another poster who said that Pentax should give a cost break to Wolf to carry their Pentax cameras.

In 2007, I bought my first digital DSLR, a K10, from Kit camera who used to be part of the Wolf stores. They had a K100 in their store, and from seeing it, i knew i wanted the K10D with the additional features. I didn't but it from Kit camera because they didn't have the K10 on hand, couldn't tell me anything about the Pentax cameras, seemed embarassed to even be showing me a K100, and their pricing, even online were clearly out of line. I've never hesitated to buying local even if it costs me a premium, but i have limits when gouging is concerned.

Nevertheless, i think Pentax should help out Wolf. I never would have bought 2 Pentax dslr since 2007, and more lenses than i care to name if i hadn't seen that first K100 at Kit camera. Pentax needs some regional exposure and i don't know of any current camera stores in the Seattle area that carry any dslr cameras from Pentax. Kit camera went out business with the bankruptcy, but i did reward them for my initial showing of the Pentax dslr by buying filters, bags ands some other accessories from them. I even went back to them 6 months later and told them they should have the Pentax K10 and what a wonderful camera it was. The Nikon shooter behind the counter obviously didn't approve of my enthusiasm. So i never had much affection for the place after that.


Phil
09-27-2009, 05:26 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by séamuis Quote
I feel sorry for some of you guys... my local photo store has K-7's lining the shelves, and K2000's. K-x's soon I can only imagine. along with canon, nikon and olympus. above those shelves are shelves jam packed with vintage bodies and lenses. not one poster from any major manufacturer that I have seen.
An interesting follow up is that when I was deciding which brand and body to go with in June/July, the store I was talking about above had a K20D on display. I was able to compare it next to the D90 and some uninspiring Canon models -- the Pentax immediately became the front runner. But a few weeks later when I had decided on the K20D for sure, the store did not have a K20D out on display -- and in fact they have not had a pentax DSLR on display since. I have been back a few times and the lone pentax spot on the shelf sits empty. I have bought some things from them like a camera bag and filters -- but well, I cant buy what they don't have.

Last edited by apisto; 09-27-2009 at 05:31 AM.
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