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10-05-2009, 08:18 AM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by kevinschoenmakers Quote
Imagine the noise levels of a 6MP FF sensor by the way...
More than you can think of. Which is (partly) why it got canceled.

10-05-2009, 09:26 AM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
More than you can think of. Which is (partly) why it got canceled.
Back then the noise was probably horrible, but with current technology it would be impressive (though 6mp wouldn't sell, but for other reasons).
10-05-2009, 09:30 AM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Radu, do you know about method of "mutually exclusive hypotheses"?


*isteve has explained everything already for such person as you.
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/764146-post83.html

Wait wait wait. Now you are using someone else's musings from this very thread to confirm your own ramblings? priceless!

A wish list is one thing. Calling it fact is another (and I think it is safe to say you can take your 645D 'rumor' out of the list, seeing as it is completely confirmed at this point from, ahem, legitimate sources - putting one true known fact in a list of your own rumors doesn't make the other rumors true).
10-05-2009, 10:06 AM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
More than you can think of. Which is (partly) why it got canceled.
Apparently wasn't THAT bad with good light. There are a few Contax N pictures floating around on the web, it used the same sensor:

CONTAX N Digital Photo Gallery by Richard Lai at pbase.com

Nothing to write home about by today's standards, but those would have been pretty nice in 2001. A little bit of noise in the deep shadows but nothing worse than what Kodak had. I have seen other pics online of some indoor shots with the Contax, can't remember where, but they didn't look so hot, like some noise suppression was being applied.

Who knows, maybe those sensors are collecting dust and Philips is blowing them out for $100 today ($50 if you buy 100 or more) and Pentax is just digging up the same camera from the grave Nah

And why all the Kodak dissing a couple of pages back? After all they DID invent the modern digital camera and made some unparalleled cameras on Nikon and Canon bodies 10 years ago, with excellent and fast software to match. I once picked up a '90s era DCS-330 cheap and thought it took gorgeous 3mp pictures that look good even today. Now the camera itself was uglier than a mud fence but the pictures were beautiful if given good light. And they had removable AA filters, which never stayed on mine (nothing sucked the life out of pictures faster, it was one strong filter). Interestingly the camera had a 4:3 ratio sensor that is almost the same size as today's 4/3 spec. Kodak laid much of the groundwork for what we see today but, not being a camera company, could never fully reap the benefits of its creation (sort of like Xerox and the GUI)

10-05-2009, 04:27 PM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by MikePerham Quote
Well, Sony have deep pockets and they are sitting in nbr 3 in part because of their pricing strategy, and (I suspect to a lesser extent) in part because there is a large user base with legacy lenses, but at the end of the day they better get a bigger market share (at nbr 3 they are still no where near Canon and Nikon). As I said earlier, if this strategy doesn't get them a much larger market share, they will not get the ROI that is essential to keep the FF DSLR, and perhaps even their APS-C cameras viable. Let us see how the FF landscape looks about 2-3 years down the road.
Yes, it should be interesting to see in 2 to 3 years' time. Where I think Sony might have problems in the short term is their reluctance to put any semblance of video capability in their cameras. The company line is that they want to do it right the first time, and while that may really be the case, their products (at least the non-FF ones) aren't as competitive now when all other manufacturers have video in some of their DSLRs, warts and all.

I do think the A850 is a smart move, though. The $2000 MSRP is sure to have turned quite a number of heads.
10-05-2009, 06:07 PM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
Yes, it should be interesting to see in 2 to 3 years' time. Where I think Sony might have problems in the short term is their reluctance to put any semblance of video capability in their cameras. The company line is that they want to do it right the first time, and while that may really be the case, their products (at least the non-FF ones) aren't as competitive now when all other manufacturers have video in some of their DSLRs, warts and all.

I do think the A850 is a smart move, though. The $2000 MSRP is sure to have turned quite a number of heads.
I can only speak for the UK, but the A900 was a disaster for dealers who are having to dump them at a loss. Sony of course quote only what they sell to dealers....

The problem I was ruefully advised was that the darn things are just a bit cheaply built whereas the lenses, if you can find one, are eyewateringly expensive. The high noise performance of the sensor did not win any friends either.

They would probably have been better off making it more expesive not less, but Sony are intent on buying market share at any price. All their current models are warm-ups or downgrades of cameras which have been around for years.

This is not, in my opinion, a recipe for any kind of success. They lack convincing cameras in just about every category.
10-05-2009, 10:41 PM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
As far as I know, Sony is now sitting at number 3 in the DSLR market, and they've done so while starting off at the bottom when they acquired Minolta.
Not any more in Japan. Their 2009 models have completely flopped so far; and their sales have nose dived this year. They are outsold by Olympus, Pentax and Panasonic for this week's chart in Japan (outside the big two).

Last edited by nosnoop; 10-05-2009 at 10:52 PM.
10-05-2009, 10:52 PM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Hoya can launch FF camera instead high-speed APS-C.
But, all will be clear in 1 year. The market will give the answer.
The camera will be cheaper than A850.
My source is trusted.
I don't believe a single bit of this. People here just won't give up on FF... really.

Read a bit on Ned's interview and see how Hoya operates.
Then check out how FF cameras are doing RIGHT NOW.... their sales numbers are abysmal and minuscule. Looking at Japan September monthly sales chart, only 5D II are sold in any respectable number at #17 in the chart. The top selling Nikon FF comes in at #47 and the A900 could not even make it into their monthly top 80 chart at #96.

And then look at the mico 4/3 which are selling like hot cakes.
So if you are the Hoya CEO, which format would you invest your money in? It simply does not make sense to make a Pentax FF which won't sell.

10-05-2009, 10:59 PM   #99
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The FF market cannot be compared to the micro 4/3.
Different clientelle, different needs.
If it was about making money, Pentax wouldn't be where it is now after so many years in business...
10-05-2009, 11:09 PM   #100
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FF is the growing part of DSLR market. It will be more than 7% now.
Pentax will make FF camera - competitor to SONY A850.
The most semi-pro DSLR will have FF sensor and price below $2000. It will be very soon.

As for K-7's replacement - I don't know. Hoya will launch first either FF, or new APS-C. Not together.
It will depends on the market situation.

The importance of FF camera in Pentax line-up has also psychological moment for the future users.
And for Pentaxians with FF lenses.

Last edited by ogl; 10-05-2009 at 11:16 PM.
10-05-2009, 11:46 PM   #101
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I agree with Ogl. There are a lot of longtime Pentax users out there which have switched systems because Pentax did not offer the right tools for the job. Now with the K-7 things have suddenly changed. For instance Canon does not have a very loyal user base. Many of them grew up with an old Spotmatic or K1000, and the little girls and boys from that time are now grown up and wealthy, but use a Canon or Nikon. The K-7 has changed all that... Pentax is getting more brand recognition now and the former users are noticing and willing to go back.

Also, I think Hoya is surprised about the good sales of the K-7 and the anticipated sales of the K-x and also the flood of positive press lately. Isn't Pentax now one of the few profitable camera companies? Things have changed and Hoya is looking forward. Mark my words: a FF camera from Pentax will definitely attract a lot of *new* users even when they already have invested in Canon and/or Nikon.

Last edited by Asahiflex; 10-05-2009 at 11:53 PM.
10-06-2009, 12:02 AM   #102
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Will the K Mount full frame have HOYA or Pentax Logo?

Will the K Mount full frame have HOYA or Pentax Logo?

I think it should have a Hoya Logo. Maybe start a poll?

These threads about full frame use to make me so anxious, just awaiting the release date and scouring for more rumours. Anyone notice that a rumour thread here later gets picked up as proof and posted on other blogs?

I'm glad I shopped elsewhere for full frame platform, before my dollar bills lost 20%+ of their buying power this past Spring. I have full frames in my imaging kit and Pentax still has no full frame Dslr some two years after the last full frame k mount thread raged on & on for months & months here. Wasn't it like 50 pages? Maybe someone can dig it up & link it to this thread for historical purposes?

So where does 645D fit in, which Pentax officially say will happen, well maybe?

How many newly designed, optimized for digital 645D lenses will 645D launch with?

How many newly designed, optimized for digital lenses will full frame K Mount launch with?

So your trusted source says full frame in one year, so by October 6th 2010 then?

I've marked my calandar and I now won't sell my full frame 14mm 2.8 Tamron made for pentax autofocus since this newest Pentax full frame k-mount rumor must be true, well, this time, right? My 14mm Tammy is an exceptional lens, and discontinued so its worth keeping another year.

Only another 12 months or 365 days to go...

Sounds like real fun, well this time.




QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
FF is the growing part of DSLR market. It will be more than 7% now.
Pentax will make FF camera - competitor to SONY A850.
The most semi-pro DSLR will have FF sensor and price below $2000. It will be very soon.

As for K-7's replacement - I don't know. Hoya will launch first either FF, or new APS-C. Not together.
It will depends on the market situation.

The importance of FF camera in Pentax line-up has also psychological moment for the future users.
And for Pentaxians with FF lenses.
10-06-2009, 12:20 AM   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
How many newly designed, optimized for digital lenses will full frame K Mount launch with?
at least 5 new lenses. as for date - it's hard to say. approx. 1-1.5 year.
the best way - October/November, 2010, the worst - spring 2011.
10-06-2009, 12:21 AM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
Will the K Mount full frame have HOYA or Pentax Logo?

I think it should have a Hoya Logo. Maybe start a poll?
There's no way it would get the Hoya logo. That would be an extremely bad move because Hoya does not have the brand recognition that Pentax has. So that simply won't happen.
10-06-2009, 12:30 AM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
I don't believe a single bit of this. People here just won't give up on FF... really.

Read a bit on Ned's interview and see how Hoya operates.
Then check out how FF cameras are doing RIGHT NOW.... their sales numbers are abysmal and minuscule. Looking at Japan September monthly sales chart, only 5D II are sold in any respectable number at #17 in the chart. The top selling Nikon FF comes in at #47 and the A900 could not even make it into their monthly top 80 chart at #96.

And then look at the mico 4/3 which are selling like hot cakes.
So if you are the Hoya CEO, which format would you invest your money in? It simply does not make sense to make a Pentax FF which won't sell.
Where can one find those sales charts?
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