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10-27-2009, 09:10 AM   #136
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QuoteOriginally posted by MikePerham Quote
I don't think their legacy standard production lenses are high priced ...they go for peanuts on flea bay. However, their more esoteric models do fetch premium prices and only because they are few and highly sought after by affluent and knowledgeable Pentaxians. Not enough of those to support a FF model ...you just can not introduce a FF camera with out a line up of new lenses. .

..but it would be impossible for Pentax to introduce an FF camera without the huge number of lagacy lenses out there. 75% of buyers of a Pentax FF camera will already own older Pentax FF lenses. The rest will upgrade from APS.....

10-27-2009, 09:21 AM   #137
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In my opinion many posters put way too much weight on legacy Pentax glass. Sure they're great for some enthusiasts like members on a forum like this, but we're just a tiny fraction of the whole customer base. Most buyers today probably do not even consider lenses without AF. And while Asahi/Pentax has over the years produced high quality lenses, I really wonder how many are still in good condition - and in some photographer's hands. Not that many probably, relatively speaking.

When (not if!) Pentax makes a FF camera body, there has to be enough new FF glass to choose and buy from at that time.
10-27-2009, 09:32 AM   #138
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QuoteOriginally posted by builttospill Quote
Is my current camera perfect? It was up until about a month ago. That's when I started looking into FF. Perfection is relative. My K10D has been perfect as it has met and exceeded every need I have with a camera until recently. I used to go through cameras almost as quick as the average person would go through a roll of film, until I bought the K10D. My camera is my baby and it's been perfect for it's purposes, now, two years later, I want to take my work to the next level and I can't do that with my current camera. When I'm ready to purchase my next camera, it will be a perfect camera or I won't buy it.
I guess I never understood the mystique and "red mist" that comes with FF sensors...as if they are magical.

If you really wanted to take it to the next level, you'd get out of small format sensors entirely
QuoteOriginally posted by Angevinn Quote
The price of some old lenses are high because of the great quality IMHO. If Pentax brings out some truly great FF lenses I'm sure people will buy them. The prices on the used lens market shows that people are willing to pay for quality. Come on with the new FF DFA lenses Pentax! Bring back aperture rings too! Be different!
QuoteOriginally posted by MikePerham Quote
I don't think their legacy standard production lenses are high priced ...they go for peanuts on flea bay. However, their more esoteric models do fetch premium prices and only because they are few and highly sought after by affluent and knowledgeable Pentaxians. Not enough of those to support a FF model ...you just can not introduce a FF camera with out a line up of new lenses. The issue of trying to compete in 3 markets, APS-C, FF and MF has been discussed to death ...I just can't see Pentax having the resources to do that. Their APS-C lens line up is not yet complete, they are introducing a MF so will have to come up with some lenses for that so I just don't see FF on top of all that.
There are millions of "regular" lenses but only a few M*, A*, etc lenses. The ones you see all the time seem to go for more money than other film SLR makers' lenses, at least from what I can tell (not counting package/Craigslist/freebie deals). Notable exceptions include a German/Japanese maker and one that has a German name

I could see demand going up IF or when the body comes out. People want the camera and probably want lenses for it...

Aperture ring...come back...

But with the commitment to go MF, I can't see Pentax doing both at the same time...not without a partnership with a manufacturer capable of development and production.
10-27-2009, 10:27 AM   #139
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QuoteOriginally posted by emr Quote
In my opinion many posters put way too much weight on legacy Pentax glass. Sure they're great for some enthusiasts like members on a forum like this, but we're just a tiny fraction of the whole customer base. .
Without Pentax legacy glass there wouldn't have been a Pentax DSLR to date. The customers for Pentax first FF camera will be enthusiast like us frequenting this forum.
Sony bought Minolta to get access to the user base using Minolta lenses. Without it Sony DSLR's would not have been viable.
The only attempt of breaking into the DSLR market without a presinstalled user base is the 4/3 system. This needed the efforts of several manufacturers to be viable. And still it not a great sucess....

10-27-2009, 01:13 PM   #140
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an introduction of a FF dSLR will bring a wide level of possibility to Pentax shooters. those people who already have the legacy lenses or those which are premium grade lenses will now be put to good use (FOV, shallower DOF, and noise (though debatable). not to mention that these glasses would benefit from the in-body SR and the option to use DA lenses for those who want to retain the equally competitive DA LTDS, *s for cropped image use, and other legacy glasses from K to FA for FF use.

for those with FF capable glasses, this is a sound investment. btw, how many of us here atleast owns 1 FF capable Pentax glasses?

another thing, I do hope that Pentax releases a new lens lineup !

Last edited by Pentaxor; 10-27-2009 at 05:01 PM.
10-27-2009, 01:32 PM   #141
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote

for those with FF capable glasses, this is a sound investment. btw, how many of us here atleast owns 1 FF capable Pentax glasses?
Not sure if this was a rhetoric question, but I'm sure most would have at least one, most commonly the FA 50/1.4 or a host of Takumars or M lenses...
10-27-2009, 01:33 PM   #142
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
The only attempt of breaking into the DSLR market without a presinstalled user base is the 4/3 system. This needed the efforts of several manufacturers to be viable. And still it not a great sucess....
Not great, but greater than Pentax, even with all the K lenses existing...
10-27-2009, 03:59 PM   #143
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
I wonder who'll sell more units:

Canon "lost the plot" 1D Mark IV

or

Pentax K-7 ?

Lets say first 12 months on market.

Will canon sell more $5,000 1.3x crop or will pentax sell more K-7 $1300 1.5x crop?
When I read this I was WTF? Surely the 1D is full-frame!

Then a quick trip to wikipedia confirmed they are indeed 1.3 crop which strikes me as retarded. Really what's the point of buying a $5k camera and not getting a full frame sensor?

I'm really curious in what shape the market will be in 5 years from now. I bet Canon won't be in such a dominant position. They probably wouldn't be now if Nikon had a better line-up of lenses.

10-27-2009, 04:00 PM   #144
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Sony bought Minolta to get access to the user base using Minolta lenses.
All three of them?

10-27-2009, 04:05 PM   #145
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Not sure if this was a rhetoric question, but I'm sure most would have at least one, most commonly the FA 50/1.4 or a host of Takumars or M lenses...
Actually ALL 9 of my current lenses are FF capable and 10th is on its way
10-27-2009, 10:51 PM   #146
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QuoteOriginally posted by kristoffon Quote
When I read this I was WTF? Surely the 1D is full-frame!

Then a quick trip to wikipedia confirmed they are indeed 1.3 crop which strikes me as retarded. Really what's the point of buying a $5k camera and not getting a full frame sensor?

I'm really curious in what shape the market will be in 5 years from now. I bet Canon won't be in such a dominant position. They probably wouldn't be now if Nikon had a better line-up of lenses.
Take another trip back to Wikipedia and learn that the 1D serie is split in two: 1D and 1Ds.

1D is a x1.3 with high fps for PJ and sports/wildlife shooters that need the reach and high fps (that, pro build quality and support are the point of buying a $5000 camera that is not FF if I understand well the people on Canon fora).

1Ds is FF with high pixel count for the one who favor resolution (fashion, wedding, fine art and lanscapes).

Anyway, if you want my opinion, nothing can justify buying a $5000+ camera unless you intend to earn your money back from selling your work (or have too much cash on your hands as some do apparently, even on this board ... but I'm just jealous), in which case it's just an investment in a particular tool for a particular job.

It is likely Canon will sell more of their $5000 1DIV (provided they are not plagued with a major default) than Pentax of their soon-to-be $1000 K-7, just on the account that big agencies buy this sort of things in bulk and don't really care about their price.

Last edited by lol101; 10-27-2009 at 11:02 PM.
10-28-2009, 12:55 AM   #147
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your a right and wrong. Now in such bad economy situation all whant to spend as little money as possible Including agencies
10-28-2009, 05:25 AM   #148
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QuoteOriginally posted by Angevinn Quote
The price of some old lenses are high because of the great quality IMHO. If Pentax brings out some truly great FF lenses I'm sure people will buy them. The prices on the used lens market shows that people are willing to pay for quality. Come on with the new FF DFA lenses Pentax! Bring back aperture rings too! Be different!
The price older lenses command is more likely due to the dropping supply and less to do with outright demand. Quality may drive residual demand, but constrained supply is most likely what is driving up prices.

Problem is: Will FF bring more customers to Pentax, or just siphon off existing $$$ from the APS-C the installed base?

The last thing Pentax wants with an FF body is to sell it alone without complementary lens sales. All those people hoarding FF glass are actually a market liability to Pentax, making it less likely an FF body is forthcoming, at the very least significantly delaying introduction.

People look at the current user base of legacy glass as a good thing. For Pentax, it's not so good when planning future development. An FF lens system will need to have AF, SDM, and WR to be successful. That's a lot of $$$ to develop and needs a large, deep pocket market to sell to. Many meeting that criteria, are right here, posting regularly!
10-28-2009, 05:42 AM   #149
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I have FF and APS-C lens mainly AF.
K200d and K7 and I would buy a FF body from Pentax.
10-28-2009, 06:46 AM   #150
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QuoteQuote:
An FF lens system will need to have AF, SDM, and WR to be successful.
Can't see why that would be a problem for a company like Pentax with their experience. They have done it before, why not a new range of lenses superior or at least equal to Zeiss, Canon or Nikon glass? Of course they can, do you really think they will stick to the old glass or the new entry level stuff? This is a company with a proud record of producing some of the best glass ever, so why not more?
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