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11-13-2009, 08:22 AM   #301
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QuoteOriginally posted by George E Norkus Quote
We’ve all heard many stories before about Pentax and their FF or larger cameras.

Until they start producing fast lenses and good accessories that are comparable to the “other big guys”, nothing will change. They'll still be 2nd rate.

Maybe that’s what they want?
What's so appealing about following the herd? My Pentax K-7 is still the right tool for me. I have more lenses than I can use. A FF camera would be the icing on the cake indeed but it doesn't render my K-7 useless.

Look, Pentax once was the biggest 35mm SLR brand. What happens when you are the biggest brand? You tend to get lazy and ultimately your customers will switch brands. Mark my words, Nikon and Canon aren't in a good position... There will be a moment when they will lose market share quickly because their products are good, but bland, uninteresting and extremely uncool. That is how things go...

11-13-2009, 10:13 AM   #302
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
What's so appealing about following the herd? My Pentax K-7 is still the right tool for me. I have more lenses than I can use. A FF camera would be the icing on the cake indeed but it doesn't render my K-7 useless.

Look, Pentax once was the biggest 35mm SLR brand. What happens when you are the biggest brand? You tend to get lazy and ultimately your customers will switch brands. Mark my words, Nikon and Canon aren't in a good position... There will be a moment when they will lose market share quickly because their products are good, but bland, uninteresting and extremely uncool. That is how things go...
A good point. And it explains exactly why i jumped from Canon to Pentax! I found Canon to be realy good (450D) good PQ, fast AF, good ISO noise. But SO SO SO boring!
Pentax was more intriguing to me. I was drawn to the whole "charm" and "romance" that acctually surround the brand. And all of the other qualities.....

Sometimes when im sitting here reading away in this forum i feel that many users seem to forgett what they acctually have. There is so so so many comparing Pentax to Canikon and others. Why?

I wish Pentax stays original, different, intruiging, awkvard, strange and surprising!
11-13-2009, 12:42 PM   #303
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The charm of being uncool?

QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
What's so appealing about following the herd? My Pentax K-7 is still the right tool for me. I have more lenses than I can use. A FF camera would be the icing on the cake indeed but it doesn't render my K-7 useless.

Look, Pentax once was the biggest 35mm SLR brand. What happens when you are the biggest brand? You tend to get lazy and ultimately your customers will switch brands. Mark my words, Nikon and Canon aren't in a good position... There will be a moment when they will lose market share quickly because their products are good, but bland, uninteresting and extremely uncool. That is how things go...
I believe the only thing that matters now is that Pentax ISN'T the biggest brand around. There's too much inertia against the company to ever become anything of any significance again. And what few customers who are like Swede, aren't enough to bring this company out of it's lethargy. But then again, I believe the motivation to succeed must come from within. And Pentax for whatever arguable reason doesn't have that motivation. Pentax made the choice to be a second-run company years ago. It became really evident to me in how they initially marketed the 645. And one of the greatest cameras they ever produced, they refused to continue enticing new customers to by. That camera for me was the 6x7, later renamed 67. No other company had a medium-format 800mm/f4 lens. It was the biggest baddest motherF you could get. And the design was never updated, nor the series expanded. The greatest impediment to Pentax, is Pentax!

QuoteOriginally posted by the swede Quote
A good point. And it explains exactly why i jumped from Canon to Pentax! I found Canon to be realy good (450D) good PQ, fast AF, good ISO noise. But SO SO SO boring!
Pentax was more intriguing to me. I was drawn to the whole "charm" and "romance" that acctually surround the brand. And all of the other qualities.....

Sometimes when im sitting here reading away in this forum i feel that many users seem to forgett what they actually have. There is so so so many comparing Pentax to Canikon and others. Why?

I wish Pentax stays original, different, intriguing, awkward, strange and surprising!
Personally, I don't want a camera that's awkward to work with. Neither am I charmed by incompetence. And I find nothing intriguing about products that don't provide what I need as a photographer. Some of your statements were valid when the LX was in production. But you only have to try and remember what that camera looked like, to see how little any of that worked out or matters in the long run. If all you want is nostalgia, you're going to have plenty of it when Pentax finally fails and goes out of business. The best Pentax seems to be good at, is discontinuing wonderful products.

Photography is an art, and the equipment it's tools. Poorly designed and fewer tools impedes the art. I want as many of the best designed tools I can get. I am not nor have ever been a minimalist. Unless you want to call shooting Black & White minimalism.

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11-13-2009, 01:42 PM   #304
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There's no use to Pentax if Pentax is Canikon-like.

I don't care the heck about Pentax not being first brand around.
In current world, Pentax would be Canon/Samsung etc. like. You may want it to be so but I don't and IMO most Pentaxians don't want either.

11-13-2009, 01:51 PM   #305
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
There's no use to Pentax if Pentax is Canikon-like.
Not even if you have invested heavily in Pentax glass?
11-13-2009, 02:24 PM   #306
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I am what I do, not what I own!

QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
There's no use to Pentax if Pentax is Canikon-like.

I don't care the heck about Pentax not being first brand around.
In current world, Pentax would be Canon/Samsung etc. like. You may want it to be so but I don't and IMO most Pentaxians don't want either.
My identity is my ART! My identity ISN'T what I own. I don't care about what I own or who makes it. I'm ONLY concerned with the production of my ART!

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11-13-2009, 04:06 PM   #307
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QuoteOriginally posted by Shingoshi Quote
Personally, I don't want a camera that's awkward to work with. Neither am I charmed by incompetence. And I find nothing intriguing about products that don't provide what I need as a photographer. Some of your statements were valid when the LX was in production. But you only have to try and remember what that camera looked like, to see how little any of that worked out or matters in the long run. If all you want is nostalgia, you're going to have plenty of it when Pentax finally fails and goes out of business. The best Pentax seems to be good at, is discontinuing wonderful products.

Photography is an art, and the equipment it's tools. Poorly designed and fewer tools impedes the art. I want as many of the best designed tools I can get. I am not nor have ever been a minimalist. Unless you want to call shooting Black & White minimalism.

Xavian-Anderson Macpherson
ShingoshiDao
Not exactly the responce i expected

Im Sorry Xavian but you took me by the word to much. I appologise for this because i cant expect everyone to read "between the lines", as this is a text based communication and can not show any emotions.

Again, sorry..... I did not mean that i chose the K-7 because its awkvard, that would be crazy coming from an Eos 450D wich is infact the awkvard camera between the two of them......So there you have it. I shall be more carefull with my expressions. Im kinda poetic sometimes.....im like that.

I was just refering to the romantical myth surrounding Pentax. And i still believe there is such a thing And i believe that is important for Pentax!

I did not chose Pentax because i thought it would be cool or something. I did because i thought......."Why not try something else". Simple as that. Im not an brand fan of anything. Next year i could be shooting Sony or Oly.....Doesnt matter to me realy. At the moment im heappy with where i am and im VERY happy with the K-7, wich i believe is a great camera both in PQ and just plain design and looks.

Good night!
11-13-2009, 08:28 PM   #308
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Samsung has already developed the several back-illuminated sensors with sensor size from 1/2.5" and 2/3" till APS-C and FF. It's 100% true info.

But, Hoya has no final decision about FF sensor in future FF camera.

11-13-2009, 08:56 PM   #309
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My apologies to you too!!

QuoteOriginally posted by the swede Quote
Not exactly the responce i expected

Im Sorry Xavian but you took me by the word to much. I appologise for this because i cant expect everyone to read "between the lines", as this is a text based communication and can not show any emotions.

Again, sorry..... I did not mean that i chose the K-7 because its awkvard, that would be crazy coming from an Eos 450D wich is infact the awkvard camera between the two of them......So there you have it. I shall be more carefull with my expressions. Im kinda poetic sometimes.....im like that.

I was just refering to the romantical myth surrounding Pentax. And i still believe there is such a thing And i believe that is important for Pentax!

I did not chose Pentax because i thought it would be cool or something. I did because i thought......."Why not try something else". Simple as that. Im not an brand fan of anything. Next year i could be shooting Sony or Oly.....Doesnt matter to me realy. At the moment im heappy with where i am and im VERY happy with the K-7, wich i believe is a great camera both in PQ and just plain design and looks.

Good night!
I guess the thing that set me off was what appeared to be this fascination with the aura of a product, rather than the aura of the art. I believe that if we are both motivated by the aura of our art, no matter how different that may be one from the other, we will still in some way find a common ground.

It's kind of funny you mentioning Sony and Olympus. Because I was really thinking about this issue more after I wrote it. It's kind of sad, because each of these two companies represent two different strategies and history. Olympus has come by it's credentials as a camera company with complete legitimacy. While Sony has been actively snatching up any company they can find to support their goals. Sony grabbed Tamron, which had previously acquired Bronica. So it's really scary to think that if we ever see another Bronica product, it will be under the Sony name.

Since we have been discussing lenses heavily here in this topic, I was considering which companies have the longest history of maintaining a mostly compatible lens mount. What we're left with is Nikon, Olympus and Leica. Yes, we could mention Pentax. But Pentax really has a questionable future. So while I can buy a used Nikon F5 for less than $500, I still know that the company that made it is still actively engaged in producing cameras for the market that camera was directed to. Now I haven't yet checked the prices on an LX. But even if they're in the same relative range, the LX provides me no future. There's nothing available from Pentax that even comes close to the mastery of the LX.

This was a real consideration for me today. Because I first came to this forum to discuss the Pentax SF1. I didn't know anything about it, and assumed because of it's quirky appearance, that it might not be worth much of anything to me. But after reading the reports here, I realized it deserved a higher level of respect than I first gave. But then sank in the reality. I have only two old and cheap Pentax lenses left. And no matter how little I spent on an SF1, it would simply be economically unsound for me. I would be buying property on a dead end, on the hopes someone might come along and make a through street of it. I guess if you like living on dead ends, there might be something to like about that. But after having been duped into buying property on a dead end called the Canon FD lens line, I vowed not to ever make that mistake again. So the only lens line I will consider now is Nikon. Because it's still very viable for someone who depends on having a future.

Ok. Maybe I'm guilty of blogging here. But I was just trying to share the thoughts that came about for me today and recently as a result of the discussions here. And they have really helped me formulate what I hope is a better course of action. I had initially spoken of wanting a Kodak Pro SLR/n. I will likely still get one. But in the meantime I'm going to get a Nikon F5, since all of the lenses for it will work on the Kodak. Because another thing is that I've reevaluated my previous belief as to the nonviability of film. eBay is turning out to be too good for me. And it's opening my eyes to possibilities I never thought available before.

Since I would only be shooting Black & White, and I've had the greatest love for Ilford XP2, I started searching for and found plenty of film is there to be had. And I'm pleased to see there's actually a new XP2 Super around. Yes, this is a thread about digital cameras. But the reality is in the context of our discussion here, as it has already been pointed out by others, much of our desires are likely nothing more than fanciful thinking when it comes to Pentax meeting the desires of anyone here. So we are forced into the situation of finding alternatives. And when enough people do that (exceeding a tipping point), no amount of marketing is likely to get them back again. So I for one refuse to count on what is an unrealistic hope for the resurrection of a professional Pentax system, in any format.

If I had the money to pursue romantic myths, it would be Leica and the R9. I make no apologies to anyone for thinking it's the most beautiful camera ever designed. I am cursed by my love for beautiful things. That's partly responsible for my buying the T90. The R9 however is exponentially beyond anything the T90 was in sensual attraction.

Xavian-Anderson Macpherson
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Last edited by Shingoshi; 11-13-2009 at 09:11 PM.
11-13-2009, 09:04 PM   #310
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QuoteOriginally posted by Shingoshi Quote
I guess the thing that set me off was what appeared to be this fascination with the aura of a product, rather than the aura of the art. I believe that if we are both motivated by the aura of our art, no matter how different that may be one from the other, we will still in some way find a common ground.

It's kind of funny you mentioning Sony and Olympus. Because I was really thinking about this issue more after I wrote it. It's kind of sad, because each of these two companies represent two different strategies and history. Olympus has come by it's credentials as a camera company with complete legitimacy. While Sony has been actively snatching up any company they can find to support their goals. Sony grabbed Tamron, which had previously acquired Bronica. So it's really scary to think that if we ever see another Bronica product, it will be under the Sony name.

Since we have been discussing lenses heavily here in this topic, I was considering which companies have the longest history of maintaining a mostly compatible lens mount. What we're left with is Nikon, Olympus and Leica. Yes, we could mention Pentax. But Pentax really has a questionable future. So while I can buy a used Nikon F5 for less than $500, I still know that the company that made it is still actively engaged in producing cameras for the market that camera was directed to. Now I haven't yet checked the prices on an LX. But even if they're in the same relative range, the LX provides me no future. There's nothing available from Pentax that even comes close to the mastery of the LX.

This was a real consideration for me today. Because I first came to this forum to discuss the Pentax SF1. I didn't know anything about it, and assumed because of it's quirky appearance, that it might not be worth much of anything to me. But after reading the reports here, I realized it deserved a higher level of respect than I first gave. But then sank in the reality. I have only two old and cheap Pentax lenses left. And no matter how little I spent on an SF1, it would simply be economically unsound for me. I would be buying property on a dead end, on the hopes someone might come along and make a through street of it. I guess if you like living on dead ends, there might be something to like about that. But after having been duped into buying property on a dead end called the Canon FD lens line, I vowed not to ever make that mistake again. So the only lens line I will consider now is Nikon. Because it's still very viable for someone who depends on having a future.

Ok. Maybe I'm guilty of blogging here. But I was just trying to share the thoughts that came about for me today and recently as a result of the discussions here. And they have really helped me formulate what I hope is a better course of action. I had initially spoken of wanting a Kodak Pro SLR/n. I will likely still get one. But in the meantime I'm going to get a Nikon F5, since all of the lenses for it will work on the Kodak. Because another thing is that I've reevaluated my previous belief as to the nonviability of film. eBay is turning out to be too good for me. And it's opening my eyes to possibilities I never thought available before.

Since I would only be shooting Black & White, and I've had the greatest love for Ilford XP2, I started searching for and found plenty of film is there to be had. And I'm pleased to see there's actually a new XP2 Super around. Yes, this is a thread about digital cameras. But the reality is in the context of our discussion here, as it has already been pointed out by others, much of our desires are likely nothing more than fanciful thinking when it comes to Pentax meeting the desires of anyone here. So we are forced into the situation of finding alternatives. And when enough people do that (exceeding a tipping point), no amount of marketing is likely to get them back again. So I for one refuse to count on what is an unrealistic hope for the resurrection of a professional Pentax system, in any format.

Xavian-Anderson Macpherson
ShingoshiDao
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11-13-2009, 09:20 PM   #311
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What if the reverse is true?

I think the products we choose is a reflection of the ideology we each possess and hold essential. Our personalities is of far greater importance than what we own. And what we own is a reflection of that, more than the other.

My ideology comes from my love for mathematics. So I tend to like things that are very technical in nature. I like gadgets. Ok. I'm lying! I LOOOOVVVE gadgets. I like dials and displays. But I also like the sensual nature of something I hold in my hands. When I go to buy something, the first thing I imagine doing is holding it in my hands. My camera is a sensual object for me. It's something through which I direct my love. My love is the image. But my mistress is my camera. And I like to caress her into doing what I love most. Making images.

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11-14-2009, 12:46 AM   #312
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Samsung has already developed the several back-illuminated sensors with sensor size from 1/2.5" and 2/3" till APS-C and FF. It's 100% true info.

But, Hoya has no final decision about FF sensor in future FF camera.
And the US Postal Service has developed a new type of packaging which delivers itself - you just lick the stamp, stick it on, and hey presto your recipient already has it. It's also 100% true info.

Sorry, but this is the internet, where anybody can make up anything they like. Without a reputable or otherwise undeniable source to back it up, it's a wild and unsubstantiated rumor.
11-14-2009, 01:56 AM   #313
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QuoteOriginally posted by emr Quote
Not even if you have invested heavily in Pentax glass?
Yep, even (IMO of course)
11-14-2009, 02:10 AM   #314
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QuoteQuote:
I go to buy something, the first thing I imagine doing is holding it in my hands. My camera is a sensual object for me. It's something through which I direct my love. My love is the image. But my mistress is my camera. And I like to caress her into doing what I love most. Making images
Forget the FF I want what he's using!
Joking aside I agree with your sentiments entirely. My camera is a tool that I use to produce art. Now not all photographers have that goal in mind. But the need demands the tool. I want to print big canvases with minimal noise and maximum post processing. That is why I desire/need a FF. And I know that if Pentax produce one (2010?), it will be a great camera, and probably worth the wait. However if they don't I like many others will move away to greener pastures. That will be a regretful decision, but for me necessary. I love my K20, it is a brilliant camera but it has it's limits.
11-14-2009, 11:36 AM   #315
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Do you guys think that when Pentax releases a FF, that the prices of the DA* lenses will drop?
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