Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
11-18-2009, 06:34 PM   #391
Veteran Member




Join Date: May 2009
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Photos: Albums
Posts: 842
QuoteOriginally posted by Shingoshi Quote
Those for whom the quality of the final image is their primary concern will always look for a larger original image size. Because in terms of the comparative quality of original images, the larger format will always be superior to a smaller format. If you're a professional for whom the quality of the image is secondary (requiring only smaller reproduction sizes), the original image format chosen will likely be of little concern to them. But for artists, better will always translate to larger.
Again, that's a strange way to look at it. More can very definitely be less, in many ways. Larger sensors bring with them numerous disadvantages in terms of size and weight (important to photographers who don't do all their shooting in a studio, and especially to those who must respond quickly to photographic opportunities), in terms of image quality (while light gathering and hence noise can be improved, defects appear in other areas such as pixel vignetting. It's also completely pointless for a pro to capture an image at higher resolution than they will ever need it - all that does is increase the storage needed to capture the image in the first place, the work involved in ensuring proper backup of the larger files, and the specification / expense of the machine required to process it.

I'd argue that real pros are likely to be *less* obsessed with megapixel ratings than the average consumer, unless they're operating in very specific areas where the highest-resolution APS-C DSLRs don't meet their output size requirements. For those photographers, full frame is somewhat better, but if they can get away with the inconveniences in cost, speed and portability then medium format is almost certainly an even better bet for them.

To suggest that artists are interested solely in resolution over all over image quality and ergonomics variables seems an equally strange assertion to your previous one. So does the inference that an artistic image cannot be captured with an APS-C camera.

11-18-2009, 08:04 PM   #392
Senior Member




Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 128
QuoteOriginally posted by knoxploration Quote
Again, that's a strange way to look at it. More can very definitely be less, in many ways. Larger sensors bring with them numerous disadvantages in terms of size and weight (important to photographers who don't do all their shooting in a studio, and especially to those who must respond quickly to photographic opportunities), in terms of image quality (while light gathering and hence noise can be improved, defects appear in other areas such as pixel vignetting. It's also completely pointless for a pro to capture an image at higher resolution than they will ever need it - all that does is increase the storage needed to capture the image in the first place, the work involved in ensuring proper backup of the larger files, and the specification / expense of the machine required to process it.

I'd argue that real pros are likely to be *less* obsessed with megapixel ratings than the average consumer, unless they're operating in very specific areas where the highest-resolution APS-C DSLRs don't meet their output size requirements. For those photographers, full frame is somewhat better, but if they can get away with the inconveniences in cost, speed and portability then medium format is almost certainly an even better bet for them.

To suggest that artists are interested solely in resolution over all over image quality and ergonomics variables seems an equally strange assertion to your previous one. So does the inference that an artistic image cannot be captured with an APS-C camera.
I toldly agree with you thanks some one made sence on this post. Im alwas out and about, I dont have a car to always have my gear on my back. The weight and price doesnt make up the size of the picture... also wouldnt old lenses not look as good on high resolution sensors.
11-18-2009, 11:33 PM   #393
Inactive Account




Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 83
APS-C: For 30x40" prints?

Yeah! Even with B&W the prints wouldn't look good. So just how large of an image do you want artists to concede to? I don't even think 24x36" can be suitably attained with an APS-C camera. And many photographers would have thought nothing or making prints that large from film. So why should we be stuck with smaller images just because we're shooting digital? I really don't care if you don't want a larger sensor size. Frankly, I hope you never have one. Given all of your comments here, I'd say your actively attempting to convince everyone smaller is better. And if you want that, great. I don't.

Xavian-Anderson Macpherson
ShingoshiDao
11-18-2009, 11:51 PM   #394
Veteran Member




Join Date: May 2009
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Photos: Albums
Posts: 842
QuoteOriginally posted by Shingoshi Quote
Yeah! Even with B&W the prints wouldn't look good. So just how large of an image do you want artists to concede to? I don't even think 24x36" can be suitably attained with an APS-C camera. And many photographers would have thought nothing or making prints that large from film. So why should we be stuck with smaller images just because we're shooting digital? I really don't care if you don't want a larger sensor size. Frankly, I hope you never have one. Given all of your comments here, I'd say your actively attempting to convince everyone smaller is better. And if you want that, great. I don't.

Xavian-Anderson Macpherson
ShingoshiDao
No, I'm actively pointing out that your opinion is not the only one, that there is a place for both full-frame AND APS-C cameras in this world, and that a company with the resources of Pentax is perhaps not best served by catering to the minority who actually need FF when that's already becoming a hotly-contested market. They're much better served by the niche they're currently going for with the K-7 - APS-C cameras that are extremely feature rich, rugged, and compact.

It doesn't pay to be a me-too in this world. It pays to differentiate. The K-7 is different. Running off to splash money at FF just because a few other companies are already fighting over it wouldn't be.

Oh, and a K-7 print at 36 x 24 inches is 130dpi without any resampling. Exactly how close do you stand and pixel-peep at your 36" x 24" prints?

Perhaps you should step back a couple of feet to where you can actually see the whole picture. You might see the effect the photographer / artist intended, and you might forget to focus on the pixel count...

11-19-2009, 12:55 AM   #395
Inactive Account




Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 83
What was this thread for...?

I certainly didn't think it was for a discussion of the comparative merits of one format versus another. APS-C is already the established format and doesn't need defending. So being that this thread was for the possible occurrence of a FF camera in 2010, what exactly do any of you hope to achieve by diluting the topic. I frankly wish that I could simply turn off all of the comments unrelated to FF. You've more than proven your point that you don't want FF. So what do you keep going on about, except to prove how much of a distraction you can be. I guess the bottom line is you think it isn't even worth it for Pentax to produce a FF, and therefore any discussion on the topic is irrelevant. If that is what you truly believe, as you seem to be so committed, thanks for telling any of us who were looking for such a Pentax camera to look somewhere else.

Thanks to you, we all have the final word about what Pentax shouldn't do.

Xavian-Anderson Macpherson
ShingoshiDao
11-19-2009, 01:08 AM   #396
Veteran Member
KungPOW's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,702
QuoteOriginally posted by Shingoshi Quote
I certainly didn't think it was for a discussion of the comparative merits of one format versus another. APS-C is already the established format and doesn't need defending. So being that this thread was for the possible occurrence of a FF camera in 2010, what exactly do any of you hope to achieve by diluting the topic. I frankly wish that I could simply turn off all of the comments unrelated to FF. You've more than proven your point that you don't want FF. So what do you keep going on about, except to prove how much of a distraction you can be. I guess the bottom line is you think it isn't even worth it for Pentax to produce a FF, and therefore any discussion on the topic is irrelevant. If that is what you truly believe, as you seem to be so committed, thanks for telling any of us who were looking for such a Pentax camera to look somewhere else.

Thanks to you, we all have the final word about what Pentax shouldn't do.

Xavian-Anderson Macpherson
ShingoshiDao
LOL

Welcome to the classic finish for all Pentax FF discusions to date.

Stick around, we'll do it again in 3-6 months.
11-19-2009, 01:16 AM   #397
Veteran Member
eurostar's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Albareto, Italy
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 813
QuoteOriginally posted by Shingoshi Quote
Just ask how many medium-format professionals would have been willing to switch to a smaller format. None of them. That's why there's at least 4 different medium-format DSLRs on the market.
Could it be the reason for which Pentax is about to launch a digital MF instead of a 24x36mm?
11-19-2009, 01:17 AM   #398
Veteran Member




Join Date: May 2009
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Photos: Albums
Posts: 842
QuoteOriginally posted by Shingoshi Quote
I certainly didn't think it was for a discussion of the comparative merits of one format versus another.
I must admit I'm a wee bit confused as to how your comments about how you can't take an artistic picture with an APS-C camera are any less off-topic than my comments about how both formats have their merits.

11-19-2009, 03:14 AM   #399
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bridgetown West Australia
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 850
Original Poster
QuoteQuote:
Could it be the reason for which Pentax is about to launch a digital MF instead of a 24x36mm?
Apparently (and I am no expert in this area) Pentax has had it's digital MP camera on the drawing boards for some time (years?). In todays rapidly changing techological world you can't wait too long or you will be overtaken. MF probably stil has it's place (studio work) but the new range of smaller, lighter, high resolution FF DSLR's are catching up. If I had to choose between a 30 megapixel Pentax FF DSLR for about $2000-3000 or a MF for twice that price...well it woudnt be the MF! For those who want/need small lightweight aps-c cameras, I am sure you will be well catered for. For artists who want/need as much resolution as possible (for large prints and more top end for post processing) a FF does the job. It is horses for courses, you just need the right tool for the job and that goes for APS-C or FF or MF.
11-19-2009, 07:23 AM   #400
Pentaxian
thibs's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Belgium
Photos: Albums
Posts: 5,161
QuoteOriginally posted by Shingoshi Quote
Yeah! Even with B&W the prints wouldn't look good. So just how large of an image do you want artists to concede to? I don't even think 24x36" can be suitably attained with an APS-C camera.
Xavian-Anderson Macpherson
ShingoshiDao
Well look at the comparison K-x against D700, no more than one stop difference. IMO (based solely on that point of course) it renders D700 investment totally useless.

Also, Look at Ben Kanarek ads. Some of those were printed full size poster for advertising. And those were done with a K20D. Maybe the photographer is more important than the sensor size?
11-19-2009, 09:26 AM   #401
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Charlotte, NC
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 886
QuoteOriginally posted by KungPOW Quote
LOL

Welcome to the classic finish for all Pentax FF discusions to date.

Stick around, we'll do it again in 3-6 months.
Tell me about it, I basically stopped reading this forum for 6 months after I sold my Pentax gear last spring, but came back a week ago while in the market for a Pentax film camera and it looks like the same old debate with the same responses is still raging on.

Pentax just needs to build a full frame DSLR and be done with it. Some people simply want one. The debate over which format is better is pointless, both are fine, but people simply want different things. Myself, after buying a Pentax LX, would love to have a a full frame Pentax DSLR. Not because it will make me a better photographer, I just want one because full frame viewfinders are awesome...there's no way I can go back to APS-C now. Talk about tunnel vision.
11-19-2009, 09:28 AM   #402
Veteran Member
eurostar's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Albareto, Italy
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 813
QuoteOriginally posted by ozlizard Quote
Apparently (and I am no expert in this area) Pentax has had it's digital MP camera on the drawing boards for some time (years?). In todays rapidly changing techological world you can't wait too long or you will be overtaken. MF probably stil has it's place (studio work) but the new range of smaller, lighter, high resolution FF DSLR's are catching up. If I had to choose between a 30 megapixel Pentax FF DSLR for about $2000-3000 or a MF for twice that price...well it woudnt be the MF!
Me too. Yet Hasselblad, Mamiya and soon Leica sell hundreds of cameras for well above 10,000 dollars each...
11-19-2009, 09:54 AM   #403
Veteran Member
StephenMerola's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southeast Wisconsin
Photos: Albums
Posts: 391
I just want that full frame viewfinder as well.
11-19-2009, 02:38 PM   #404
Veteran Member




Join Date: May 2009
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Photos: Albums
Posts: 842
QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
Pentax just needs to build a full frame DSLR and be done with it. Some people simply want one.
Only if they can make an equal or greater profit for their investment of time and money that they could make by creating a non-FF camera. They can't be expected to lose money on making a camera just because a small segment of the community wants it - the decision has to be made for the good of the company overall.

QuoteQuote:
The debate over which format is better is pointless, both are fine, but people simply want different things.
Couldn't agree more, and it's all I've been saying all along. Both formats have advantages, both formats have disadvantages, and the choice of which format is suitable varies from photographer to photographer - and that includes artists. ;-)
11-19-2009, 03:25 PM   #405
Veteran Member
creampuff's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,955
QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Maybe the photographer is more important than the sensor size?
So true... but I guess there will be a segment of half baked photographers who can't bring themselves to admit that they can't shoot for nuts and need to rely on a camera with a larger sensor to cover up their inadequacies.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
pentax, pentax news, pentax rumors
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Its 2010 now. Reportage General Talk 4 11-02-2010 10:18 AM
Picture of the Week 103: February 21, 2010 to March 7, 2010 Tamia Weekly Photo Challenges 55 03-07-2010 05:50 AM
Picture of the Week 102: February 14, 2010 to February 28, 2010 photolady95 Weekly Photo Challenges 57 02-27-2010 08:28 PM
Picture of the Week 101: February 7, 2010 to February 21, 2010 netuser Weekly Photo Challenges 63 02-24-2010 08:15 AM
Picture of the Week 100: January 31, 2010 to February 14, 2010 Peter Zack Weekly Photo Challenges 93 02-14-2010 12:43 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:46 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top