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10-26-2009, 06:56 AM   #121
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I am a bit confused about this lens/FF issue. I thought that one of the advantages of Pentax developing a FF DSLR was that most of the non DA lenses would be a great match for this system. Is this not true? And if so is it true that Pentax will have to bring out a new range of lenses suitable for a FF camera? Well I think it's about time that Pentax stopped living on the past glory of their great lenses and developed a new range of FF lenses for a new FF camera and move forward into a barve new world!
I'll just get of this soapbox now and move along.....

10-26-2009, 08:21 AM   #122
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QuoteOriginally posted by ozlizard Quote
I am a bit confused about this lens/FF issue. I thought that one of the advantages of Pentax developing a FF DSLR was that most of the non DA lenses would be a great match for this system. Is this not true? And if so is it true that Pentax will have to bring out a new range of lenses suitable for a FF camera? Well I think it's about time that Pentax stopped living on the past glory of their great lenses and developed a new range of FF lenses for a new FF camera and move forward into a barve new world!
I'll just get of this soapbox now and move along.....
I think that would be the most logical thing to do. good for us because that would bring down the price of the great older lenses, ......I hope.
10-26-2009, 12:03 PM   #123
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QuoteOriginally posted by MikePerham Quote
Well, the guy is obviously a Canon shooter ...states that the APS-C is a 1.6 crop as if all APS-C cameras were 1.6 crop.
Yep, that gets me too. Oh well, just remember he may have never had the opportunity to use a Pentax Limited lens. Instead he's using L lenses with IS, when we don't need IS because our camera has SR.
10-26-2009, 12:20 PM   #124
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QuoteOriginally posted by ryan s Quote
Soooooooo that last part...is your current camera perfect? How can you use a camera that's less than perfect??? We've been down this road thousands of times. A trade-off here...a benefit there...

You'll be waiting a long, long time for the perfect camera...
Is my current camera perfect? It was up until about a month ago. That's when I started looking into FF. Perfection is relative. My K10D has been perfect as it has met and exceeded every need I have with a camera until recently. I used to go through cameras almost as quick as the average person would go through a roll of film, until I bought the K10D. My camera is my baby and it's been perfect for it's purposes, now, two years later, I want to take my work to the next level and I can't do that with my current camera. When I'm ready to purchase my next camera, it will be a perfect camera or I won't buy it.

10-26-2009, 02:39 PM   #125
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You must have missed this very important bulletin

After you left the Paris show: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

QuoteOriginally posted by ozlizard Quote
Hoisted this just off the DPreview forum...


Hope the op doesn't mind me quoting it here!
Could this be true...fingers crossed?!
10-26-2009, 07:48 PM   #126
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2010 Photokina, believe!

I really wish Tokina remake its awesome ATX 28-80mm 2.8. People who use F and EF mounts can still benefit from Pentax going FF if Tokina and Pentax make the zoom lenses together again.
10-27-2009, 12:30 AM   #127
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Is it true that the sensor in the KX is a Sony? If so then it is a real possibilty that Pentax may use a Sony FF sensor. Imagine a Pentax FF with a similar (or same) sensor as the a850/900! That sensor produces awesome images. Now imagine that sensor coupled with Pentax build quality, ergonomics and a range of new top class Pentax glass! Wake me up I must be dreaming.......
10-27-2009, 02:21 AM   #128
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Sensor could be 24 MP SONY to lower cost of camera till $1500.
But...Samsung will be ready to offer FF sensor too.

10-27-2009, 02:56 AM   #129
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With Pentax's recent history with vaporware (645d) I'm not holding my breath waiting for the mythical FF body. Don't get my wrong, if it does turn up I'll certainly get one.

Don't forget Canon has completely lost the plot with there new flagship 1D mk IV. This could be a good time for Pentax to through down some moves and show that they aren't some 9 stone weakling.
10-27-2009, 05:26 AM   #130
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QuoteOriginally posted by MikePerham Quote
Your right ...it is a question of economics. All the chatter about FF doesn't change the fact that FF is a relatively small segment of the DSLR market and much of that is with PJ and pro photographers with whom Nikon and Canon are well entrenched brand choices and therefor have a natural market for their FF camera models.

The way I read the comments of such folks as Ned Bunnell and other Japanese Pentax executives is that their R&D division has worked with FF but don't expect to see one anytime soon, if at all. FF would have to go mainstream for Pentax to enter the market and have their FF cameras become economically viable. And I don't see that happening, I think APS-C will continue to dominate the marketplace. From what I read on the various forums, Sony's attempt to garner a share of the FF market hasn't met with much success, and Sony have deep pockets.
Those are very good points. Would a Pentax FF grow market share or cannibalize existing sales at substantially higher development, distribution, and capital cost?

To be profitable, FF makers need a full lens system. not legacy glass, but a quiver of FF lenses specific for digital. All the DA* are out; and what about FF SDM lenses? That's a huge development cost with a small market share already to recoup. There's no profit in simply making bodies to be used with older glass and screw-drive mechanisms.

If, as the K-x high-ISO shots demonstrate, APS sensors can get the job done (or close enough), there is little fiscal justification to jump into the shark tank. Remember: if Pentax goes FF, it will come at the expense of other developments, including expanding the range of current lenses.
10-27-2009, 05:40 AM   #131
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Those are very good points. Would a Pentax FF grow market share or cannibalize existing sales at substantially higher development, distribution, and capital cost?

To be profitable, FF makers need a full lens system. not legacy glass, but a quiver of FF lenses specific for digital. All the DA* are out; and what about FF SDM lenses? That's a huge development cost with a small market share already to recoup. There's no profit in simply making bodies to be used with older glass and screw-drive mechanisms.

If, as the K-x high-ISO shots demonstrate, APS sensors can get the job done (or close enough), there is little fiscal justification to jump into the shark tank. Remember: if Pentax goes FF, it will come at the expense of other developments, including expanding the range of current lenses.
expanding the range of the lens lineup would be good. more options and more coverage on those areas that Pentax is lacking. I also believe that the expansion would also affect the market status of older lenses. most probable is price drop and sell at the price level that older lenses should belong to and not the crazy and outrageous price they sell at the used market.
10-27-2009, 08:04 AM   #132
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Old Lenses

QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
expanding the range of the lens lineup would be good. more options and more coverage on those areas that Pentax is lacking. I also believe that the expansion would also affect the market status of older lenses. most probable is price drop and sell at the price level that older lenses should belong to and not the crazy and outrageous price they sell at the used market.
The price of some old lenses are high because of the great quality IMHO. If Pentax brings out some truly great FF lenses I'm sure people will buy them. The prices on the used lens market shows that people are willing to pay for quality. Come on with the new FF DFA lenses Pentax! Bring back aperture rings too! Be different!

Last edited by Angevinn; 10-27-2009 at 08:10 AM.
10-27-2009, 08:09 AM   #133
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dom Quote
Don't forget Canon has completely lost the plot with there new flagship 1D mk IV. This could be a good time for Pentax to through down some moves and show that they aren't some 9 stone weakling.
I don't know if Canon has "lost the plot" with their 1DMkIV (why?) but I know one thing: Pentax will NEVER compete with this kind of beast, be it with a FF or not.

Pentax is much more likely to compete with 5DMkII or Alpha 850 than with a PJ/Sports shooter camera (all IMO of course...).
10-27-2009, 08:56 AM   #134
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I wonder who'll sell more units

I wonder who'll sell more units:

Canon "lost the plot" 1D Mark IV

or

Pentax K-7 ?

Lets say first 12 months on market.

Will canon sell more $5,000 1.3x crop or will pentax sell more K-7 $1300 1.5x crop?

I never thought I'd consider buying any other crop camera again but I find both the Canon 7D and Canon 1D Mark IV compelling. Had canon started 1D mark IV at $1,000 less than $5,000 I assume it would be impossible to buy at launch and hard to locate for purchase a year afterwards. Canon was shrewd raising price as they know people will pay the extra $1,000 premium at launch. Other than those two canon croppers at this point in time my Pentax K20D should be the last crop camera I'll ever buy brand new, from anyone. K-7 is too small for my hands so I'll never buy one. I Can't rule out used dslr buying opportunities though, as some older dslrs are really affordable thesedays.

I find the Lost Plotters really have no clue about canon. Theres 1D, 1D Mark II, 1D Mark IIn, 1D Mark III, 1D Mark III Blue Dots, and now 1D Mark IV and all are aps-h 1.3x crop format. The complainers of 1D mark IV will get their wish and Canon will offer their newly updated full frame and full pro spec flag ship: 1Ds Mark IV soon, likely before Olympics 2010 and it will start out once again at $8,000. Priced the Same as Nikon D3x launched at and 1D Mark IV will offer full HD whereas the Nikon does not. or they'll launch it for $100 or $200 less than D3x sits at that point in time.

When its announced then people will complain its $8,000 or $7499 or $7299 or ...

Nikon D3x is $7499 today:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/592951-REG/Nikon_25442_D3x_SLR_Digital_Camera.html


QuoteOriginally posted by lol101 Quote
I don't know if Canon has "lost the plot" with their 1DMkIV (why?) but I know one thing: Pentax will NEVER compete with this kind of beast, be it with a FF or not.

Pentax is much more likely to compete with 5DMkII or Alpha 850 than with a PJ/Sports shooter camera (all IMO of course...).

Last edited by Samsungian; 10-27-2009 at 09:34 AM.
10-27-2009, 09:02 AM   #135
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QuoteOriginally posted by Angevinn Quote
The price of some old lenses are high because of the great quality IMHO. If Pentax brings out some truly great FF lenses I'm sure people will buy them. The prices on the used lens market shows that people are willing to pay for quality. Come on with the new FF DFA lenses Pentax! Bring back aperture rings too! Be different!
I don't think their legacy standard production lenses are high priced ...they go for peanuts on flea bay. However, their more esoteric models do fetch premium prices and only because they are few and highly sought after by affluent and knowledgeable Pentaxians. Not enough of those to support a FF model ...you just can not introduce a FF camera with out a line up of new lenses. The issue of trying to compete in 3 markets, APS-C, FF and MF has been discussed to death ...I just can't see Pentax having the resources to do that. Their APS-C lens line up is not yet complete, they are introducing a MF so will have to come up with some lenses for that so I just don't see FF on top of all that.
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