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10-23-2009, 11:45 AM   #31
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Btw guys, that news is 2 years old...

惊爆传言!宾得将推出最廉价全幅单反?-蜂鸟网

and if you search about Cypress, they have already closed down the Fill Factory department.

10-23-2009, 12:24 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by vizjerei Quote
Btw guys, that news is 2 years old...
So much for news from ??? - ???????? Nphoto.net

The NPhoto article about Cypress and Pentax was dated yesterday! The Cypress sensor at 3 FPS didn't seem that great. It's low megapixel count did.
10-23-2009, 12:39 PM   #33
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well I guess it is just because we keep seeing ppl posting about they heard thing from PR saying there will be FF and ppl just dig up some old stuff to put some pictures on the news

just like we keep seeing FF post in the forum every once in the while.

QuoteOriginally posted by Angevinn Quote
So much for news from ??? - ???????? Nphoto.net

The NPhoto article about Cypress and Pentax was dated yesterday! The Cypress sensor at 3 FPS didn't seem that great. It's low megapixel count did.
10-23-2009, 12:47 PM   #34
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Well this speculation didn't get very far...
Oh well, onto the next FF prediction...

10-23-2009, 01:36 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Well this speculation didn't get very far...
Oh well, onto the next FF prediction...
Yup, this one's buried - complete and utter nonsense that somebody simply made up based on a very old spec sheet.
10-23-2009, 02:56 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Angevinn Quote
Hello Radu,

My first post was taken from a Chinese website. It's just speculation.

When I made my third post, I listed six things I would like to see in a sensor for a FF Pentax DSLR.

Namely:

● High ISO Performance (like the Nikon D700) Useable ISO 12,800
● Strong Resolving Power (able to capture great detail)
● Excellent Color Reproduction
● Video
● LiveView
● At least 5 FPS

I never stated that the Cypress sensor was capable of delivering these. I would really like to see a FF CMOS Samsung sensor (similar to what is in the K20D and K-7, just FF sized) in the FF Pentax DSLR. Samsung has really stayed ahead of the competition in CMOS sensor development.

Pentax and possibly Hoya do read these forums (I believe Ned even mentioned this in an interview). It's a sounding board for opinions and ideas that I believe helps them to build better products. That's why I listed six things I would like to see in a FF sensor. What sensor Hoya/Pentax will finally go with is anyone's guess. Others have stated they want a fully functional K-Mount. It may or may not happen but they are letting Hoya/Pentax know what they would like to see in a new flagship camera by stating it here.

If you have ideas about sensors or a possible FF DSLR from Pentax please share them.

Cheers,

AK
Hi AK!

I noticed your enthusiasm for FF both here and on dpreview but my feeling is we won't see a Pentax FF in the near future. Anyway even if I knew something concrete about such plans I couldn't divulge them on the fora just like that. And those who do that and claim inside knowledge are in my book mere farcers, attention seekers or even worse.

I think the Hoya ideas about the FF cameras will be ironically unveiled in the same day as 645D. If my gut feeling about 645D is correct it will be a camera akin to a FF dslr but with a bigger sensor and IQ beyond any FF camera at low and medium ISO. If this model will bring new technology for Pentax (e.g. a new AF system) then its utility will be larger than most of us think now about it.

If you consider what the FF cameras do today you'll probably agree with me that these are divided in 2 quite separate classes:

1) Low Mp, very high ISO/and or fps capable cameras such as D3(s)/D700;
2) Higher resolution for landscape and studio work with less accent on extreme ISO and fps such as D3X and 1Ds M3 for the high end and A850/A900 and 5D M2 for low end. I think Pentax will attack this segment's high end with the 645D.

If I could decide for Hoya I would design my own "close to FF sensor" in the shape of a 30x20 mm with 16-18 Mp, capable of at least 7-8 fps, 1080p movie and at least 2.5 stops better ISO than the K-7's sensor. There are a lot of semiconductor companies able and willing (I suppose) to collaborate and manufacture such a sensor. The advantages would be easier to do SR, better corner performance than a full FF sensor and still visibly more area than APS-C. Something like the new Canon APS-H camera I suppose.

Radu
10-23-2009, 06:30 PM   #37
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Hi Radu,

Very well thought out! By passing over the high megapixel FF cameras like the Sony 24MMP A900, Nikon D3x and the upcoming 32MMP FF Sony, Pentax will be able to come at the competition with a medium format digital camera. A Pentax medium format digital camera should be less noisey and will have a larger sensor (better image quality!). Then a lower megapixel, high ISO capable FF DSLR like the Nikon D700 can be brought out by Pentax for a reasonable price.

I was thinking something similar, if the FF format is 24x36mm, why not design a sensor that is 22.5mm x 34mm in size. This would deliver FF like results but cut out some of the edge weakness on FF lenses that is of great concern to some people. Maybe the answer lies in microlens arrangement like what Leica and Jenoptik (formerly Carl Zeiss Jena) did for the Leica M9. Curve the microlens arrangement more on the outer edges of the sensor to minimize any light fall off from the lens.

I wonder how long before we see more than one FF camera from Pentax like what they do with the APS-C line. Offer a high end model like the K-7 then a less exensive model like the K-X. I'm sure FF sensor prices will have to come down dramatically. I plan on buying the first generation FF Pentax DSLR when it comes out though!

Lenses I would like to see for a FF DSLR (Ogl stated that Pentax will roll out five lenses with the camera):

Updates to the Limiteds, but I still plan to keep my original 31mm Limited.

● 16mm 2.8
● 28mm 2.8
● 50mm (1.0 - 1.2) The DA* 55mm already covers 1.4 and is said to give FF coverage
● 85mm 1.4 or 1.8
● 105mm 2.0 or 2.8

These are just ideas, I wouldn't mind a good wide angle zoom like a 10-16 or 10-18mm. More lenses will come with time. I would really love to see some good portrait lenses from Pentax for FF and a good wide angle prime like a 16mm. My Nikkor 16mm AIS was a wonderful lens on film and would love to have one like it for digital FF. I'm sure others will want some longer telephoto lenses. Pentax may not be as large as Nikon or Canon but they are not lacking on talent.

One thing I would like to see is the return of aperture rings. I consider my lenses a long term investment. Even though aperture rings are really not used by modern cameras I'm kind of hesitant to purchase lenses without aperture rings. Just in case any changes are made to the mount in the future you can still use the aperture ring. Others may disagree, but I like aperture rings!

Cheers,

A.

Last edited by Angevinn; 10-23-2009 at 06:37 PM.
10-23-2009, 10:02 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by vizjerei Quote
Btw guys, that news is 2 years old...

惊爆传言!宾得将推出最廉价全幅单反?-蜂鸟网

and if you search about Cypress, they have already closed down the Fill Factory department.
If you go to Cypress web-site, you can download specs of 14 MP FF sensor in pdf.
The data sheet is updated September, 18, 2009.
Surprise?

10-23-2009, 10:06 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Angevinn Quote


Updates to the Limiteds, but I still plan to keep my original 31mm Limited.

● 16mm 2.8
● 28mm 2.8
● 50mm (1.0 - 1.2) The DA* 55mm already covers 1.4 and is said to give FF coverage
● 85mm 1.4 or 1.8
● 105mm 2.0 or 2.8


A.
No need 28, if there are FA31 and DA30. 105/2?
I don't know such Pentax lens in FA era.
Never made.
10-24-2009, 12:36 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by RaduA Quote
I think the Hoya ideas about the FF cameras will be ironically unveiled in the same day as 645D. If my gut feeling about 645D is correct it will be a camera akin to a FF dslr but with a bigger sensor and IQ beyond any FF camera at low and medium ISO. If this model will bring new technology for Pentax (e.g. a new AF system) then its utility will be larger than most of us think now about it.

Radu
Indeed -- I would assume once Pentax have the know-how to deliver both MF and APS-C bodies, delivering an in-between format (i.e. FF) should be almost trivial. The limiting factors on delivering an FF system would then presumably be 1) economics and 2) lens design and manufacture.
10-24-2009, 03:21 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Please, make correct quotes.
Hi Ogl,

no need to get mad... I quoted you correctly and provided links to your original posts. Anyone interested could see your posts in full and even look at their context.

QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
I said about DIFFERENT cameras. First - about FF, second - about APS-C.
That's right. Sorry, I missed that.

However, regarding the FF sensor you said the manufacturer will either be "Kodak or Samsung". Then you said it "could be cool, this sensor was in Kodak FF camera" referring to the Cypress sensor.

So it still seems that you aren't entirely sure whether the manufacturer of the FF sensor will be exclusively either Kodak or Samsung.

Not a big deal really. I like your posts most of the time. However I also like when authoritative statements like yours about the FF sensor manufacturer are backed up by solid knowledge.
10-24-2009, 03:33 AM   #42
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Except my posts, there are posts of other users which asked questions.
As for sensor for FF cameras, I've heard about MP - not lower than 20-22 MP.
The manufacturer is unknown. But, Cypress is unreal rumor.
10-24-2009, 10:48 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by vizjerei Quote
Btw guys, that news is 2 years old...

惊爆传言!宾得将推出最廉价全幅单反?-蜂鸟网

and if you search about Cypress, they have already closed down the Fill Factory department.
QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
If you go to Cypress web-site, you can download specs of 14 MP FF sensor in pdf.
The data sheet is updated September, 18, 2009.
Surprise?
I noticed this too Ogl. Why would Cypress update a data sheet on an old sensor like this and repost it? I wonder if Cypress was behind this rumor. Could have given a bump to their stock or helped bring them publicity for another contract Cypress might be bidding on. Any number of things.
10-25-2009, 05:08 AM   #44
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I do think that Pentax will come out with full frame eventually, but this is not the sensor for it. I think that Samsung is working hard on a full frame sensor and will sell it to whoever will buy it. In the past, the only buyer for Samsung sensors has been Pentax (and of course Samsung themselves). I think Pentax will be content to wait for that sensor to come.

The idea of using an older sensor that can't do video is crazy. All of the newest generation full frame cameras will do it. Pentax would be a step behind from the get go.

Finally, if Pentax did come out with a full frame camera, they would have to work a lot harder to fill in the gaps in their long lenses. 300mm lens on full frame is just not going to cut it -- photographers will need 400 and 500 mm lenses as well.
10-28-2009, 05:04 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
No need 28, if there are FA31 and DA30. 105/2?
I don't know such Pentax lens in FA era.
Never made.
Hey OGL, Does the sensor of the FF would be a Toshiba brand with BSI?
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