“I don’t know whether we’ll go with Samsung or somebody else, but I can say that we’ll have a deeper relationship with some electronics guys,” Hamada said.

I don't think big execs drop names like this in interviews just out of a whim. My interpretation is that they're in end stage negotiations with Samsung, but just want to give Samsung the message that they're not the only option and should not be too hard to negotiate with.

[*isteve]

I don't think big execs drop names like this in interviews just out of a whim. My interpretation is that they're in end stage negotiations with Samsung, but just want to give Samsung the message that they're not the only option and should not be too hard to negotiate with.

You may be right. Samsung are the most likely partners, both sides have the most to gain. Samsung are the only company who are competitive in ALL the fields that would interest Pentax whilst also having the (potentially) biggest market channel and most aggressive growth plan in the camera business.

However, if this partnership goes to form, there will still be two brands, possibly even separate model ranges, but common internal components. Samsung are also unlikely to perceive Pentax as a threat to their P&S market share and Samsung are no longer aggressively chasing the SLR market, so would see Pentax as a natural partner there too. I dont think Samsung would EVER want to build a 645.

It also neatly solves Pentax's problems about how to fund a micro APS camera. They can simply rebadge the Samsung versions.

[*isteve]

Pentax had a very close relationship with Toshiba in the past....

I think they used to make cameras for them and HP at one time.....

However Tosh has no interest in the camera business currently and is not making sensors, so this would be a rather left field choice.

[*isteve]

Pentax is EXPECTED to make profit next quarter according to Hoya. Pentax is doing much better than Nikon and Sony.....

Indeed. Sony's scrabble for market share is costing them a lot. I wonder how long they will hold out? They still lack a single model with movies.

[MikePerham]

However, the number of large scale CMOS sensor fabs worldwide that can compete for R&D with Canon and Sony are very few..... Panasonic and Samsung and thats about it.....

And Panasonic is already tied up with Olympus and Leica ...so that leaves Samsung with whom there is an existing relationship, however, rumors of some discord exist. I would like to see tangible evidence of this relationship, with whomever, to be become clear in order to settle the debate on Pentax's survival and direction.

[thibs]

The loss was at end of last june. Not really what I'd call a recent number.
We should wait the 30th to have actual numbers (being good or bad).

I think they used to make cameras for them and HP at one time.....

However Tosh has no interest in the camera business currently and is not making sensors, so this would be a rather left field choice.

Seems like they started today!

Toshiba develops back-illuminated sensor: Digital Photography Review

Well, Steve I think you mean no larger sensors but anyway Pentax could use their expertise in sensor design and work with any big electronics company at will. Samsung would be my very last choice if I was Hoya simply because after 4 years of "partnership" they have very little to show for.

One more thing: Hoya is by no means the old Pentax, they sell lots of gear for optoelectronics companies and have lots of connections to those that were way above the old Pentax level.

Radu

[Sailor]

I don't think big execs drop names like this in interviews just out of a whim. My interpretation is that they're in end stage negotiations with Samsung, but just want to give Samsung the message that they're not the only option and should not be too hard to negotiate with.

You're right, my friend; guys at Hamada's level are usually pretty circumspect in their public discourse, and I was surprised to see Samsung mentioned specifically. I'm with you - I think it's unlikely (although not impossible) that his comments were accidental. Perhaps Hamada is gently nudging Samsung, but his message also may be to Hoya stakeholders: "don't assume Samsung".

At least these folks seem to have a realistic picture of their place in the world and have a strategy for sustainability. We'll have to see if it works, but I've decided to be optimistic.

Jer

[jeffkrol]

You may be right. Samsung are the most likely partners

Never forget Japanese/Korean hostilities... this cooperation has probably been strained from the beginning. Hoya is probably even more uncomfortable with it then Pentax (who was pretty desperate at the time)..... Samsung is not the answer.

[cyg]

You're right, my friend; guys at Hamada's level are usually pretty circumspect in their public discourse, and I was surprised to see Samsung mentioned specifically.

To be fair, we only get short excerpts from the actual discussion/interview. It could very well be that he was replying to a question from the journalist which specifically mentioned Samsung (a natural question given the previous ties).

I'm not saying that's exactly what did or did not happen -- just that one should not read too much into one sentence lifted from a much longer interview...

[*isteve]

Seems like they started today!

Toshiba develops back-illuminated sensor: Digital Photography Review

Well, Steve I think you mean no larger sensors but anyway Pentax could use their expertise in sensor design and work with any big electronics company at will. Samsung would be my very last choice if I was Hoya simply because after 4 years of "partnership" they have very little to show for.

One more thing: Hoya is by no means the old Pentax, they sell lots of gear for optoelectronics companies and have lots of connections to those that were way above the old Pentax level.

Radu

Well, whatever company they go with will have to have a sensor fab (or else why bother). If Tosh want in to the market, then they may be a contender. Who knows.

[*isteve]

Never forget Japanese/Korean hostilities... this cooperation has probably been strained from the beginning. Hoya is probably even more uncomfortable with it then Pentax (who was pretty desperate at the time)..... Samsung is not the answer.

What hostilities? These things have little bearing on businesses, most of which are multinational.

TSST is a company 51% Toshiba and 49% Samsung making storage technology.

[*isteve]

Seems like they started today!

Toshiba develops back-illuminated sensor: Digital Photography Review

Well, Steve I think you mean no larger sensors but anyway Pentax could use their expertise in sensor design and work with any big electronics company at will. Samsung would be my very last choice if I was Hoya simply because after 4 years of "partnership" they have very little to show for.

One more thing: Hoya is by no means the old Pentax, they sell lots of gear for optoelectronics companies and have lots of connections to those that were way above the old Pentax level.

Radu

Actually I think Samsung would argue they got very little out of Pentax. Hoya would be a much more interesting company for Samsung to do business with though.

Anyway my top 3 at the moment would be Samsung, Toshiba and Hitachi. All three could supply the electronics components required by Pentax and all three would benefit from the electro-optical expertise at Hoya.

[kevinschoenmakers]

To be fair, we only get short excerpts from the actual discussion/interview. It could very well be that he was replying to a question from the journalist which specifically mentioned Samsung (a natural question given the previous ties).

I'm not saying that's exactly what did or did not happen -- just that one should not read too much into one sentence lifted from a much longer interview...

Hear, hear. I think this is a far more sensible approach to the quote than assuming it's a signal to Samsung.

[johnmflores]

I don't think big execs drop names like this in interviews just out of a whim. My interpretation is that they're in end stage negotiations with Samsung, but just want to give Samsung the message that they're not the only option and should not be too hard to negotiate with.

Agreed, at this level, execs parse every word that they say, and have a bevy of PR people and others to make sure that they are transmitting the right signals.

The Samsung partnership would require a major restructuring. It has yielded very little to date. And since Samsung is the bigger partner here, what does Hoya/Pentax have the Samsung could benefit from?