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11-09-2009, 09:24 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by MikePerham Quote
Nothing of the sort! Without trying to turn this thread into a pedantic exercise, or even a discussion of semantics, I was simply suggesting that rumors do not materialize out of thin air, there is typically some basis on which these stories are precipitated.

No doubt they can become distorted and run away with themselves, and likely, we will never know the whole story, but usually there is some basis (smoke) that may or may not become reality (fire).

Actually, rumors DO materialize out of thin air. In these days of the internet, there are plenty of trolls around, who enjoy nothing more than planting outrageous imaginings and then sitting back and watching everyone go ballistic.

Or perhaps, someone saw the President of Hoya talking at a business meeting with the President of JVC. "I saw the Hoya Prez talking to the JVC prez. Hoya has said they want to team up with an electronics company. Maybe JVC is that company.". Someone else reads it and it becomes "The Hoya prez was talking to the JVC prez about selling the Pentax camera line to JVC". It may take a few more steps than that, but it definitely happens.

That said, it is perfectly true that even the most strenuous denial from Hoya doesn't really prove anything. If there were talks going on, they would probably want to keep it quiet until there was something definite. We have to be careful not to fall into the logical trap of "If they wanted to keep it quiet, they would deny everything. They're denying everthing, therefore it must be true."

If Pentax were owned by an American company, I would be more credulous of this rumor. But Japanese companies tend to take a longer view of things. American CEO's idea of long-term is three months. If Pentax weren't profitable in three months, it would have to go.

Perhaps Hoya has, indeed, been talking to JVC about partnering, with JVC providing the electronics expertise that Pentax wants/needs. I have no idea. Hoya is probably quietly talking to every electronics-heavy firm that isn't already in a partnership with another camera company. They would be foolish not to be. And Hoya has shown itself to be anything but foolish.

While I agree that there is often a grain of truth in these rumors, the rumor is usually so far removed from reality by the time it gets to these forums, that it is impossible to ever separate the wheat from the chaff. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

11-09-2009, 02:06 PM   #17
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11-09-2009, 04:22 PM   #18
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Wow, the rumors are flying thick and fast!

/what exactly is the Israeli article supposed to prove, beyond that it "quotes" companies as saying things they haven't said, or indeed that are the polar opposite of what's claimed?
//it's pretty easy to grab an image off Wikipedia and slap two logos on it.
11-09-2009, 11:58 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by knoxploration Quote
That doesn't necessarily mean anything. Lots of companies deny stuff like this even though it may, in fact, be in the works. I have first-hand experience with this... my EX-company was bought out twice since I had started working for them and the first time they were getting taken over and the rumors surfaced the blatantly denied it. A few months later the rumor became truth.

Not saying JVC is definitely buying Pentax, but IF the truly were they would not make it public knowledge while negotiations were still taking place.

11-10-2009, 12:23 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by knoxploration Quote

Kelloggs buy Pentax? Does that mean I get a Pentax in my Frosted Flakes Box? Ooohhh Goodie. I haven't bought namebrand cereal in a long time. That would sure get be to start again though!

Last edited by lurchlarson; 11-10-2009 at 12:23 AM. Reason: typo
11-10-2009, 08:06 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by TiminyCricket Quote
That doesn't necessarily mean anything. Lots of companies deny stuff like this even though it may, in fact, be in the works. I have first-hand experience with this... my EX-company was bought out twice since I had started working for them and the first time they were getting taken over and the rumors surfaced the blatantly denied it. A few months later the rumor became truth.

Not saying JVC is definitely buying Pentax, but IF the truly were they would not make it public knowledge while negotiations were still taking place.
This is exactly the logic trap I referred to in my earlier post. "If it were true, they would deny it. They are denying it, therefore it must be true". If the rumor is false, they would also deny it. Companies do sometimes announce that they are negotiating to buy/sell a division or asset. For months General Motors has been in public negotiations to sell Opel to a Canadian firm. Last week, they announced that they were going to keep Opel.

I know that you're not claiming that it is true, because of their denial. My point is, the original rumor, plus the denial, equals nothing. From that information alone, there is no way to determine the veracity of the rumor. There must be other corroborating or refuting evidence.
11-10-2009, 08:08 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by noblepa Quote
For months General Motors has been in public negotiations to sell Opel to a Canadian firm. Last week, they announced that they were going to keep Opel.
Which means they are going to sell it......... ......... as soon as someone offers them enough money
11-10-2009, 09:15 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by noblepa Quote
This is exactly the logic trap I referred to in my earlier post. "If it were true, they would deny it. They are denying it, therefore it must be true". If the rumor is false, they would also deny it. Companies do sometimes announce that they are negotiating to buy/sell a division or asset. For months General Motors has been in public negotiations to sell Opel to a Canadian firm. Last week, they announced that they were going to keep Opel.

I know that you're not claiming that it is true, because of their denial. My point is, the original rumor, plus the denial, equals nothing. From that information alone, there is no way to determine the veracity of the rumor. There must be other corroborating or refuting evidence.
Yup, got it in one - and there's absolutely zero corroborating evidence for this story. Nor does JVC make one jot of sense as a potential buyer.

11-10-2009, 09:19 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by noblepa Quote
I know that you're not claiming that it is true, because of their denial. My point is, the original rumor, plus the denial, equals nothing. From that information alone, there is no way to determine the veracity of the rumor. There must be other corroborating or refuting evidence.

Well, for a japanese company to come out with a denial like that proves that it is indeed bullshit (the rumor that is).

It has probably started from some talks between JVC and Pentax. After all, Pentax needs a partner in electronmcs but these talks are about strategic cooperation, not a sale of the company.....
11-10-2009, 12:25 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by knoxploration Quote


Wow, the rumors are flying thick and fast!
How about some sales slogans?

KRISP IMAGE CAPTURE THAT CRUNCHES NICELY ON AN IMAGE EDITOR NEAR YOU!!!!!!!

SNAP the shot, add some in-camera CRACKLE f/x and POP out a picture.
11-10-2009, 02:22 PM   #26
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Pentax - They're GRRREAT!

- Jason
11-10-2009, 04:37 PM   #27
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lol - what *have* I started? You guys have me in stitches here...
11-10-2009, 09:14 PM   #28
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Better not mention the Special K-7, then.
11-10-2009, 10:00 PM   #29
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hahahah the Special K.. 7
11-11-2009, 12:42 PM   #30
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LOL you guys are so funny, I've been cracking up reading throughout this thread. Hope all goes well to whoever is really going to buy Pentax.
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