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03-18-2010, 02:36 PM   #151
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kameraten Quote
The 645D is really not cheering me up in this respect. "Safox IX" at a camera for 10 grand? Seeing the minute progress the Safox has made so far I don't think anything less than "Safox XV" will do for a pro APS-C camera.
Do you know that none of the other Digital Medium Format cameras (Even the one's which sell for 30K+), have an AF which matches the 'SAFOX XI'? From the point of view of MF market, the 645D has managed to put an advanced AF in a very 'cheap' camera.

03-18-2010, 03:29 PM   #152
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rees Quote
I do not think Pentax read this forum, they are not interested in what the punters think who buy and use their equipment, they are a law unto their selves.
In what way are they "not interested"?
There's a lot of different views on what features should be added to future Pentax cameras.

More FPS? 5 is more than enough for me.
FF? I can't afford it.
Tilt/swivel screen? I"m not interested in it.
Maybe they're listening to the likes of me for not including them...
They do have video in cameras now, so maybe they're not listening to me enough, as I don't care for it
03-18-2010, 03:47 PM   #153
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Video in the camera seems to be de rigueur nowadays. I don't need it—and at the moment, don't have it. I had it back in my early digital camera days and I used it every now and then for fun. The fast burst mode of the K20D is good enough for me now. But I accept that the next dslr I buy will almost certainly have video in it. As long as I don't have to buy scene modes, too, I can live with it.

As for full frame, I simply don't think it makes any sense for Pentax to enter this market. It SEEMS to me that full frame is mainly for higher-priced pros than me. I just don't see those folks ever leaving Nikon and Canon in large numbers. Now I don't know a great deal about who buys what—you know, market demographics. Perhaps there are more rich lawyers out there buying cameras by SIZE than I realize, maybe more than there are pros buying full-frame cameras. If Pentax could sell to them, well, maybe it would be worth it. But I doubt it. I think the rich lawyers are even more brand conscious than the pros.

I seems to me to make sense for Pentax to continue working in the area it's in now.

Will
03-18-2010, 03:52 PM   #154
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No one offers medium format digital with autofocus ???

No one offers medium format digital with autofocus ???



Did you know that Leica S2 at $22995 offers autofocus and all their lenses are weather sealed and designed for digital sensor.
Fun specs to read:


>>>"


The Leica S2 SLR Digital Camera offers the incredible imaging quality of digital medium-format in a compact ergonomic design. Employing a large 30x45mm CCD sensor, the S2 captures 37.5 megapixel files in the classic 3:2 ratio. Designed to offer maximum resolution in a convenient form factor, the body is similar in form to a modern 35mm DSLR. Well-designed controls and a simplified menu system make navigating the camera fast and highly intuitive. The camera produces an amazing large 72.5 MB RAW or 106.6 MB JPG file. This opens up to an image over 16 x 24" at 300 DPI.


The 3" LCD screen allows you to view your images on location, and the Color OLED window displays the camera's information at a glance. You can also work tethered to your computer in the studio, connecting via the LEMO push-pull USB connector. Weather- and dust-resistant seals and a magnesium body ensure professional performance even under the most demanding conditions.


Unlike traditional medium format systems, the Leica S2 utilizes both Central Shutter technology (for flash sync up to 1/500) and a focal-plane shutter for capturing ambient light subjects at up to 1/4000 second. This unique, dual-shutter system offers incredible shooting flexibility for everything from fashion assignments to reportage.


Other features include advanced autofocus capabilities, wide ISO sensitivity (ISO 80-1250), dual CF and SD card slots, and choice of S-System lenses. This along with its precision design and handling, makes the Leica S2 an excellent choice for professional commercial, studio, and fine-art photographers.


Larger-Than-Full-Frame Image Sensor
The 37.5 megapixel image sensor of the Leica S2 is almost 60% larger than a 35mm full-frame image sensor - putting the Leica S2 in a class by itself. It is also specially designed to take full advantage of the latest Leica S Series lenses.
Uses Leica S Lenses


Leica S lenses ensure that you'll always get a superior image - regardless of the shooting conditions. Because the lenses are designed with the S-System sensor in mind, your images will not exhibit vignetting or distortion whether you shoot close up, tight zoom, or at wide angle. The S lenses are also waterproof and dustproof, and utilize the camera's integrated central shutter for quick responsiveness and flash synchronization.


Extensive Lens Choices
The Leica S-System lenses include normal, wide-angle, telephoto, and macro lenses that are suited for all sorts of photographic applications from detailed product shots to travel photography to birding, and much more. There are also select specialty lenses that are either available now or in development including shift-tilt, super wide-angle, and extreme telephoto lenses.



Precision AF System
The Auto Focus system in the S2 provides fast and accurate focus without the need for trial-and-error to get the perfect image - as is typical with other SLR AF systems. The AF system is also quiet. The camera can be switched to Manual Focus, which provides an electronic sharpness alert to assure that your MF images are as sharp as can be.


Dual Shutter System
The camera incorporates an innovative dual-shutter System. The focal-plane shutter provides fast shutter speed capability of up to 1/4000 seconds, while the central shutter incorporated into the lens system provides flash synchronization in any lighting mode - making the camera a superb studio imaging system.


MAESTRO Image Processor
The exclusive MAESTRO Image Processor uses dual processor chips to provide fast operation & shooting speeds, along with high ISO with negligible noise, and a superb set of powerful shooting modes. The processor also enables simultaneous recording of JPEG and DNG RAW image file types


High Resolution 3.0" LCD Display
The 3.0" LCD display on the back of the S2 has over 460,000 pixels for sharp and detailed images, making focus and composition confirmation easier than on most digital SLR cameras. The LCD screen also allows users to view images and data from a wide viewing angle.


Bright & Clear Viewfinder
The viewfinder of the Leica S2 is extremely bright and provides a host of shooting information indicators, in addition to a clear and precise image. The viewfinder also has integrated diopter compensation so users will get a crisp view without the need for prescription eyewear.


OLED Info Display
The camera has a full color Organic LED display on the top surface that is easily visible from any viewing angle, even in bright sunlight. It provides a fast and easy way of knowing the current camera status, along with exposure & focus settings of the camera.


Compact Ergonomic Design
Lighter and smaller than most digital SLR cameras available today, the Leica S2 is extremely comfortable to handle and use. Its light weight and compact design make the camera a pleasure to carry around - even when traipsing through thick forest or jostling for position at a press conference. In addition, the intuitive control placement makes using the camera both easy and enjoyable. There is also an optional vertical grip with release button available for easier portrait shots.


Easy-to-Use Camera Functions
The camera's menus and info displays are laid out in a logical manner that provides for intuitive operation, and the camera's 4-way controller and thumb wheel are well-placed for comfortable access to the camera controls. In addition, many of the cameras display settings and functions can be customized for the further convenience of the user.


Dust- & Water-Proof
Waterproof and dustproof seals cover every millimeter of the Leica S2 so you can shoot in bad weather or dry and dusty environments and still be assured that your camera will function to its optimum ability and provide stunning images.


Secure Interface Connection
The Leica S2 uses an exclusive LEMO push-pull connector for its USB interface, and also includes an HDMI video output and flash sync connection.


Dual Memory Card Slots
The Leica S2 has dual memory card slots - one for CompactFlash cards and the other for Secure Digital (SD/SDHC) cards. This allows a user to select between the two most popular memory card formats and take advantage of the unique features of both systems.


<<<"

S2 instock for sale in USA today:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/585106-REG/Leica_10801_S2_SLR_Digital_Camera.html



QuoteOriginally posted by wonderer Quote
Do you know that none of the other Digital Medium Format cameras (Even the one's which sell for 30K+), have an AF which matches the 'SAFOX XI'? From the point of view of MF market, the 645D has managed to put an advanced AF in a very 'cheap' camera.


03-18-2010, 04:06 PM   #155
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I'm not sure what Pentax will come up with to replace the K-7. One thing I'm pretty sure of is that it won't be a full frame DSLR. Judging by the success of the K-x, it wouldn't surprise me at all if they would downsize the sensor to something similar to the K-x. The pixel race is pretty much over, other than making them for full frame or medium format. Imagine a DSLR with all the features of the K-7, plus the image quality, (especially at high ISO), of the K-x. I think that the video cababilities will be a major factor in the success of future DSLRs and Pentax will surely improve that with the next DSLR that will replace the K-7. I don't think that Pentax will try to compete with the PRO DSLR market. Their niche seems to be for Entry-Level to Advance Amateurs and of course some Pros as well. I think we will see a new DSLR this summer.
03-18-2010, 04:29 PM   #156
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I just came back from a HUGE photography show in Vegas (WPPI) and I was shocked to see how many people are taking the Video DSLR to extreme measures. The number of do-hickies and thing-a-ma-jigs you can attach to a 5DII, a 7D or a D300s to make it into a full-feature video camera is insane.

Pentax probably needs to up their game here (not that I know ANYTHING about video) but I don't think anyone is fooled by their 720p "HD" capabilities. If its not 1080 then its a waste of time I suspect.
03-18-2010, 04:34 PM   #157
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QuoteQuote:
What Comes after the K7
Better be something that can focus fast and sharp, higher FPS, higher ISO capability. I'm done waiting to upgrade. 50D performance or better.
03-18-2010, 04:35 PM   #158
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Thats an awful lot of space used to say a simple thing

I didn't say that no Digital MF camera offers AF - I said that the AF on none of these cameras matches the 11-point AF on 645D.

And this has got nothing to do with 645D versus S2 or other MF cameras. The poster that I replied to, thought that 645D's AF suggests that Pentax is still not serious about AF. I just pointed out that it is wrong to use 645D's AF as an evidence that Pentax is not making progress on AF - The AF on 645D might be average from DSLR standards but it is actually quite advanced from MF standards.


QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
No one offers medium format digital with autofocus ???



Did you know that Leica S2 at $22995 offers autofocus and all their lenses are weather sealed and designed for digital sensor.
Fun specs to read:


>>>"


The Leica S2 SLR Digital Camera offers the incredible imaging quality of digital medium-format in a compact ergonomic design. Employing a large 30x45mm CCD sensor, the S2 captures 37.5 megapixel files in the classic 3:2 ratio. Designed to offer maximum resolution in a convenient form factor, the body is similar in form to a modern 35mm DSLR. Well-designed controls and a simplified menu system make navigating the camera fast and highly intuitive. The camera produces an amazing large 72.5 MB RAW or 106.6 MB JPG file. This opens up to an image over 16 x 24" at 300 DPI.


The 3" LCD screen allows you to view your images on location, and the Color OLED window displays the camera's information at a glance. You can also work tethered to your computer in the studio, connecting via the LEMO push-pull USB connector. Weather- and dust-resistant seals and a magnesium body ensure professional performance even under the most demanding conditions.


Unlike traditional medium format systems, the Leica S2 utilizes both Central Shutter technology (for flash sync up to 1/500) and a focal-plane shutter for capturing ambient light subjects at up to 1/4000 second. This unique, dual-shutter system offers incredible shooting flexibility for everything from fashion assignments to reportage.


Other features include advanced autofocus capabilities, wide ISO sensitivity (ISO 80-1250), dual CF and SD card slots, and choice of S-System lenses. This along with its precision design and handling, makes the Leica S2 an excellent choice for professional commercial, studio, and fine-art photographers.


Larger-Than-Full-Frame Image Sensor
The 37.5 megapixel image sensor of the Leica S2 is almost 60% larger than a 35mm full-frame image sensor - putting the Leica S2 in a class by itself. It is also specially designed to take full advantage of the latest Leica S Series lenses.
Uses Leica S Lenses


Leica S lenses ensure that you'll always get a superior image - regardless of the shooting conditions. Because the lenses are designed with the S-System sensor in mind, your images will not exhibit vignetting or distortion whether you shoot close up, tight zoom, or at wide angle. The S lenses are also waterproof and dustproof, and utilize the camera's integrated central shutter for quick responsiveness and flash synchronization.


Extensive Lens Choices
The Leica S-System lenses include normal, wide-angle, telephoto, and macro lenses that are suited for all sorts of photographic applications from detailed product shots to travel photography to birding, and much more. There are also select specialty lenses that are either available now or in development including shift-tilt, super wide-angle, and extreme telephoto lenses.



Precision AF System
The Auto Focus system in the S2 provides fast and accurate focus without the need for trial-and-error to get the perfect image - as is typical with other SLR AF systems. The AF system is also quiet. The camera can be switched to Manual Focus, which provides an electronic sharpness alert to assure that your MF images are as sharp as can be.


Dual Shutter System
The camera incorporates an innovative dual-shutter System. The focal-plane shutter provides fast shutter speed capability of up to 1/4000 seconds, while the central shutter incorporated into the lens system provides flash synchronization in any lighting mode - making the camera a superb studio imaging system.


MAESTRO Image Processor
The exclusive MAESTRO Image Processor uses dual processor chips to provide fast operation & shooting speeds, along with high ISO with negligible noise, and a superb set of powerful shooting modes. The processor also enables simultaneous recording of JPEG and DNG RAW image file types


High Resolution 3.0" LCD Display
The 3.0" LCD display on the back of the S2 has over 460,000 pixels for sharp and detailed images, making focus and composition confirmation easier than on most digital SLR cameras. The LCD screen also allows users to view images and data from a wide viewing angle.


Bright & Clear Viewfinder
The viewfinder of the Leica S2 is extremely bright and provides a host of shooting information indicators, in addition to a clear and precise image. The viewfinder also has integrated diopter compensation so users will get a crisp view without the need for prescription eyewear.


OLED Info Display
The camera has a full color Organic LED display on the top surface that is easily visible from any viewing angle, even in bright sunlight. It provides a fast and easy way of knowing the current camera status, along with exposure & focus settings of the camera.


Compact Ergonomic Design
Lighter and smaller than most digital SLR cameras available today, the Leica S2 is extremely comfortable to handle and use. Its light weight and compact design make the camera a pleasure to carry around - even when traipsing through thick forest or jostling for position at a press conference. In addition, the intuitive control placement makes using the camera both easy and enjoyable. There is also an optional vertical grip with release button available for easier portrait shots.


Easy-to-Use Camera Functions
The camera's menus and info displays are laid out in a logical manner that provides for intuitive operation, and the camera's 4-way controller and thumb wheel are well-placed for comfortable access to the camera controls. In addition, many of the cameras display settings and functions can be customized for the further convenience of the user.


Dust- & Water-Proof
Waterproof and dustproof seals cover every millimeter of the Leica S2 so you can shoot in bad weather or dry and dusty environments and still be assured that your camera will function to its optimum ability and provide stunning images.


Secure Interface Connection
The Leica S2 uses an exclusive LEMO push-pull connector for its USB interface, and also includes an HDMI video output and flash sync connection.


Dual Memory Card Slots
The Leica S2 has dual memory card slots - one for CompactFlash cards and the other for Secure Digital (SD/SDHC) cards. This allows a user to select between the two most popular memory card formats and take advantage of the unique features of both systems.


<<<"

S2 instock for sale in USA today:

Leica | S2 SLR Digital Camera (Body) | 10801 | B&H Photo Video



Last edited by wonderer; 03-18-2010 at 04:41 PM.
03-18-2010, 05:24 PM   #159
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QuoteOriginally posted by user440 Quote
Better be something that can focus fast and sharp, higher FPS, higher ISO capability. I'm done waiting to upgrade. 50D performance or better.
I'm thinking more like the D3s performance is more appropriate, or maybe the 7d. I want current performance comparable to the competitors newest models, not the specs from a 2 year old camera.
03-18-2010, 06:15 PM   #160
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QuoteOriginally posted by aragondina Quote
I'm thinking more like the D3s performance is more appropriate, or maybe the 7d. I want current performance comparable to the competitors newest models, not the specs from a 2 year old camera.
D3S? So Pentax should suddenly match the performance of probably the best full-frame camera in the world?

This despite having nowhere near the same amount of compatible lenses, client base, professional service network...
03-18-2010, 08:15 PM   #161
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QuoteOriginally posted by CWyatt Quote
D3S? So Pentax should suddenly match the performance of probably the best full-frame camera in the world?

This despite having nowhere near the same amount of compatible lenses, client base, professional service network...
I think it'd be great if Pentax made a FF dSLR that matched the D3S' performance. Not in every respect - image quality wise is the important thing. They could get away with 5 fps, less shutter life rating and the like to keep the price down and it would still sell like hotcakes. I don't think the original poster was suggesting it had to match every aspect of the D3S' perfromance - I think he was speaking to image quality in the main.
03-18-2010, 08:28 PM   #162
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QuoteOriginally posted by CWyatt Quote
D3S? So Pentax should suddenly match the performance of probably the best full-frame camera in the world?

This despite having nowhere near the same amount of compatible lenses, client base, professional service network...
Why not? They can build the lenses too, they do know how. As far as client base, they let the business go so far behind everyone else they lost a lot of people, and it will be hard, if not impossible to win them back. They have to get the new people buying and they are doing that with the Kx and K7, but then they need something to keep them with the brand. Sorry but an incremental change in the K7 won't do it.

Better to aim for the top instead of planned mediocrity. They may not get there, but they should at least try to produce a top tier DSLR, not just low end models. I would be happy with something in between the D3s and the 7d for performance.

If they had actually brought out this camera instead of dropping the ball back in 2001 they may not have lost so many customers. and we would not be having this discussion.
03-18-2010, 08:55 PM   #163
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seems to me those wanting an expensive larger format camera should quit talking
about a scrawny 24x36 and acknowledge bigger is better, and hop a plane for
japan and get in line for the 645D. the 35mm format was conceived as a way to take
single shots on movie film which was plentiful. the reason (pentiful 35 mm film) for that format is gone, so why is the format sacred.????

while the 645D is perhaps more expensive now that possibily a so called FF (which we used to call a miniture) its price is about what the rumored price of the first Pentax digital
(never produced) was. If the hundreds of thousands who want high photo quality now
at a higher price would all line up in japan and get a 645D, the overwhelming success
of the product will allow the price to work its way down, and it will always produce a better
picture than can be expected from the FF. the 645D is the FF killer, you all demanding an ff as so hung up on a particular size that you have forgotten that bigger is better, and that Pentax has outflanked the canikons with it. They have jumped right over their head
and now they can nail the coffin shut by driving the 645d price down to match that
of a FF, and putting a 6x7D ontop the heap for those who really want high resolution
photos.
03-18-2010, 10:26 PM   #164
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QuoteOriginally posted by rvannatta:
the 645D is the FF killer, you all demanding an ff as so hung up on a particular size that you have forgotten that bigger is better, and that Pentax has outflanked the canikons with it.
It's only going to top it in certain areas. If I was a professional photojournalist I wouldn't be using a 645D, chances are I'd have a full frame Canon or Nikon (or top APS-C, but that's a different discussion).

QuoteOriginally posted by 24X36NOW:
I think it'd be great if Pentax made a FF dSLR that matched the D3S' performance. Not in every respect - image quality wise is the important thing. They could get away with 5 fps, less shutter life rating and the like to keep the price down and it would still sell like hotcakes. I don't think the original poster was suggesting it had to match every aspect of the D3S' perfromance - I think he was speaking to image quality in the main.
If you want full frame right now, to be honest use Canon or Nikon. They have a great range available right now and all the lenses available for it. As far as I can tell, Pentax is doing well in lifting the bar in a certain area of advanced APS-C. Perhaps they will release a full frame this year, perhaps not.

Image quality wise will depend also on a large range of full-frame compatible lenses. If they released a full frame they might release a bunch of lenses, but seeing as how they've just put the 645D out there, I for one am not holding my breath.

If it was d700-esque it might sell like hot cakes, anything higher spec for a specialist pro market would need service backup Pentax can't provide.
03-19-2010, 12:50 AM   #165
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
No one offers medium format digital with autofocus ???


Leica | S2 SLR Digital Camera (Body) | 10801 | B&H Photo Video
No any need to make PR for S2 here.
S2 and S2's lenses = sensor 30*45 mm (3:2) FOREVER. The possibility to increase MP is lower than for bigger sensors.
The dimension of sensor will never be other. The lenses never cover 56*41.5 mm.

It's not 100% digital MF camera. It's NEW intermediate digital format between
24*36 mm and real MF.

Last edited by ogl; 03-19-2010 at 12:56 AM.
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