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03-30-2010, 11:01 PM   #241
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QuoteOriginally posted by robgo2 Quote
Actually, you don't have to hold the +/- button. Just press is once to activate the function and then rotate the rear dial to make adjustments. The more that I use it, the more I am impressed by the ergonomics of the K-7.

Rob
This is correct once pressed you will see the +/- bar highlighted a dark grey(on rear screen..remains normal on top screen) then by moving rear dial you can set to whatever... a great feature

cheers


Last edited by nulla; 03-30-2010 at 11:21 PM.
03-30-2010, 11:14 PM   #242
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QuoteQuote:
I think top panels are a fossil. Remove it and articulate the back LCD instead.
Robin... I recently got a K-x as a second camera and this is one of the things I miss the most, so I tend to disagree there.


On the topic of SR... this is a post from another thread.

QuoteQuote:
People may figured this themselves, but I noticed a lot of people complaining on the forums that they have to dive into the menu to change SR settings. I thought I'd post a quicker alternative that I use:

Hit 'Info' button, and move your active selection to SR. Any time, you want to toggle SR, you just have to hit 'Info', rear-dial, and you can toggle SR on/off quickly. Two clicks just short of a dedicated SR button.

Disclaimer: Ofcourse, this wouldn't work if you change other settings using info button as well.

cheers

Neil

Last edited by nulla; 03-30-2010 at 11:27 PM.
03-31-2010, 05:13 AM   #243
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QuoteOriginally posted by WMBP Quote
This is where you lose me. The fact that you CAN do it, does mean that it really makes sense to be switching ISO from shot to shot.
On a typical day out shooting, just carrying the camera around with me, I might do macro, street, landscape or cityscape shots, looking for details, large form structures, colours or textures. That's a lot of different shooting priorities, some of which call for narrow DOF, others deep, others requiring me to freeze action (a flower waving in the breeze) others not. For some of these I am happy with ISO 400 or 800 and might need higher settings to get shots sharp enough. If I'm converting to B&W I don't care about noise. But for other shots I need ISO 100 or 200 for clarity of detail.

So I change regularly to get the best ISO for the job at hand. I have tried auto but having the camera make the decision for me is not my way.

I also tend to shoot events. Dance is extremely challenging because I am restricted to low light and there is subject movement. Music gigs have highly contrasty stage lighting and rapidly changing illumination. Here too changing ISO is key to responding to the situation.

That's my scene anyway. YMMV.
03-31-2010, 05:25 AM   #244
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
So I change regularly to get the best ISO for the job at hand. I have tried auto but having the camera make the decision for me is not my way.
I feel exactly the same way, and therefore I am another one of those who shoot in Av 90+% of the time, with ISO on the front e-dial.

03-31-2010, 06:20 AM   #245
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Rob says he can hit the +/- button once and let go, then turn the rear e-dial to change the EC. On my cameras, however, I have to HOLD DOWN the +/- button to change the EC with the rear e-dial. If I push +/- and then release, then turn the e-dial, it simply changes the aperture.

Anybody able to explain this confusion?

Will
03-31-2010, 07:19 AM   #246
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QuoteOriginally posted by WMBP Quote
Rob says he can hit the +/- button once and let go, then turn the rear e-dial to change the EC. On my cameras, however, I have to HOLD DOWN the +/- button to change the EC with the rear e-dial. If I push +/- and then release, then turn the e-dial, it simply changes the aperture.

Anybody able to explain this confusion?
I'm not sure, but I believe this behaviour is new to the K-7 (and now K-x). I don't recall my K10D working this way (but I can't test this as don't have it anymore).
03-31-2010, 07:39 AM   #247
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QuoteOriginally posted by RBellavance Quote
I'm not sure, but I believe this behaviour is new to the K-7 (and now K-x). I don't recall my K10D working this way (but I can't test this as don't have it anymore).
Ah, thanks. No, it doesn't work like this on either my K10D or K20D. It does sound like a nice option. I have certainly read a lot about the K-7 but don't remember hearing about this modest change before.

I assume that, if you touch the +/- button, the EC meter appears but will automatically go away after a second or two if you don't turn the e-dial. Right?

Will
03-31-2010, 11:00 AM   #248
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QuoteQuote:
I assume that, if you touch the +/- button, the EC meter appears but will automatically go away after a second or two if you don't turn the e-dial. Right?
that is correct


Neil

03-31-2010, 06:58 PM   #249
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No experience with the K7, own a K20 and have a GX-10 and came from a K10. I think a smaller package would have its advantages, but I do like having all the controls. For me its:

1. Better-better-better auto-focusing for sure. The bar is set high by Canon and Nikon here.
2. Less noise at high ISO and give me usable higher ISO. Others are doing it. Pentax lags.
3. Better metering (probably solved with the K7 77 segment system)

Give me these two top things and everything else is bonus. I can adapt to lots of things and one thing that annoys me on a smaller body camera will be made up for in some other feature or ergonomic.

Maybe more affordable prime lenses too, but I'm dreaming there.

Interesting banter. I'm holding out for my top two, as much as I like some of the things I see in the K7...
03-31-2010, 08:24 PM   #250
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QuoteOriginally posted by jshram Quote
1. Better-better-better auto-focusing for sure. The bar is set high by Canon and Nikon here.
K-7 is either the same or slightly behind the 7D and D300s in single AF. I personally think it's just slightly slower overall, but not by much. It's pretty quick. Continuous is definitely behind a bit. I think one difference is that some of the motor-driven Nikon and Canon lenses are very quick, and while Pentax screw mounts like the 40mm limited are meant to be very quick, the SDM sounds like it's slightly behind the Canpn/Nikon versions.

QuoteOriginally posted by jshram:
2. Less noise at high ISO and give me usable higher ISO. Others are doing it. Pentax lags.
K-7 RAW files are comparable to 7D and D300s, perhaps with even better detail retention. I'm not terribly techincal, but I think basically the sensor is not noisier than the competition (although apparently the K20D is slightly better!), it's just that the in-camera software fro JPEGs applies little noise reduction. Personally, I prefer to keep control of it - I'd rather a noisy file I can edit myself with professional noise reduction software than a file smudged by inferior in-camera software.

K-x, from what I've heard, is close to (or is) leading all APS-C in high ISO quality.

QuoteOriginally posted by jshram:
3. Better metering (probably solved with the K7 77 segment system)
Have certainly found an improvement in the K-7 from my old K10D. If you know the situations in which to give it a slight EV compensation up or spot meter, there shouldn't be any problems. It seems well-exposed on most occasions with no EV comp.
04-01-2010, 05:51 AM   #251
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The k7 has the same focusing system, just different algorithms. Pentax needs to upgrade the system. Agree, continuous is sorely lacking, I usually don't bother with mine. I get better results on single then constantly tapping the shutter button to re-focus, especially if the target is moving towards you... continuous can't do it.

Not sure on noise, according to DPREVIEW the Pentax falls off in comparisons and the k7 isn't better than the 20. My K20 will shoot nice up to 800, 1600 can be OK if there is enough light. I agree on RAW and may try LRB3 to see how that new engine does compared to my LR1. Still, it would be nice if I could get nice at 1600 and OK at 3200 for one more stop and an occasional 6400 or even 12800? That would be cool (drool at the results Nikon gets from its D3s at those high ISOs, but then that is a $5000 body).

EV comp is our friend but I shoot a lot of manual too when the meter can't cut it. It would be nice if the new segmented metering could isolate the subject better than my 20 does (black backgrounds or backlight situations) where the 20 falls off on auto (no surprise though, all cameras struggle)...the k7 does this better?

The other features of the K7 seem very well thought out. I like the big 20, but there are many times when a smaller body would be so nice.... its all a tradeoff either direction.
04-03-2010, 05:13 AM   #252
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QuoteOriginally posted by jshram Quote
The k7 has the same focusing system, just different algorithms.
Really? How do you know?

To the best of my knowledge the K-7 features new AF hardware; one that allows it to avoid the FF under Tungsten light that plagued all Pentax DSLRs before.
06-29-2010, 01:04 PM   #253
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QuoteOriginally posted by KungPOW Quote
The camera will be another "new line" a new concept in what a camera should be. Much like the K-7 was to the K20D. Not a replacement, but a new product, all unto itself.

It will have the same K-7 body, but with a compleatly new button layout. Canon stole the RAW button idea, so I expect Pentax to steal the direct print button. Not to be outdone by Sony, the top LCD will take minimalism to new heights. It will only read: "ON-HIGH", "ON-LOW" and "OFF".

The new autofocus will be a 77 point hyper-focus system. Along with the Hyper-program, it will be the first camera to to have the "HPR2" acronym. Numeroligists will note the 77 seals, the 77 autofocus points, and the 77 zone matrix meter. It wll be sold with the FA 77 ltd as a kit. Dpreview will review the camera, and use the phrase "Pentax's luckiest camera ever?" Under the negatives, they will bash it for not being as lucky as the Nikon 4D, that has "4D clover" power system and "lucky shot monitor".

Pentax being the traditional folks they are, will revert to the great cameras of the past to name this beast. They will expand on the sucess of the *ist series, and call it the Pentax @$$ist. When asked what the name means, red faced Pentax dealers (both of them) will say it is the Pentax "Assist" and they will deny people call it the "ASS-ist". Canikon users will hear of this great new Pentax, but they will only find links to Indian Standard Time when they google.

It will be available in the one colour they have yet to make a body in. It will be a perfect match to the anodized aluminium used on the silver FA ltds. Exactly the same beautiful silver champaine colour, but only available in Japan. The rest of the world's markets will get bright yellow, with orange grips, so that we can see the camera is weather sealed.
if new camera to replac K-7 is not replacement, then IT CANNOT use K-7 name, it would have to be K-8 or something like, just my 2 cents

Last edited by music_lover; 07-03-2010 at 02:11 PM.
07-12-2010, 02:14 AM   #254
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QuoteOriginally posted by WMBP Quote
Lightroom isn't any slower than anything else I've used, and I've used nearly everything. There's simply no getting around the fact that a 15 MP file involves a LOT of data. Getting all that data read from the disk and manipulating it takes a lot of memory, a fast hard disk, processing power. And you don't get better prints in return.

I sense with some hope that megapixel creep has slowed down a bit, but I'm not sure that there's any way to stop it for good. Perhaps in a few years, we'll all be using 30 MP cameras whether we need 'em or not.
Will
Can't stop the marketing/bragging effect. I do hope Pentax stays at 15 MP as well.

QuoteOriginally posted by quarc Quote
I used to shoot 6x7 for weddings, which you probably could compare with 25 MP. I would love to have 25 MP as long as nothing suffers in quality.
A valid position as well




QuoteOriginally posted by photogerald Quote
On the "other" forum, GordonBGood had some interesting findings regarding the 7D recently:

"Revisiting the Canon 7D review as to raw noise comparisons only leads to one "aha" that can't be explained as above: Why is the noise performance of the Canon 7D so much better than that of the Canon 50D right across the ISO range? In order to get this kind of improvement, the 18 MP 7D would have to have almost twice as many maximum electrons in the electron well as does the 15 MP 50D, and while Canon has reworked the layout of the new sensor to improve this, they haven't been that effective. At this point I refer you to the results of my work above, that the 7D has unequal alternating green photosites and the news from a few months ago that many raw converters were being updated to support cameras that had such unequal greens, including ACR!
[...]
This also explains the slight softening in appearance of the ACR produced noise gray patches of the 7D as compared to the 50D; when processed identically they have an almost identical appearance. The softening is due to the effective averaging between adjacent green photosites that takes place in demosiacing in order to avoid maze patterns due to the unequal adjacent rows, which reduces noise by about 30% just as having about double the maximum effective electron well capacity would.

I hope some of you find this interesting. I would post this in the Canon Forum but can't be bothered defending it against Canon fanboys. In fact, this doesn't really detract from the Canon 7D's use in any practical sense anyway, it just means that the superior raw noise results from the DPR Canon 7D review aren't real. In fact, I was looking for signs of chroma noise reduction in the K-x and discovered this."

In case you are interested in following this in more detail, here is the link to the post:

Re: 7D raw noise filtering unlikely reply (Conclusion)...: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review
Thanks for the info.


QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
People clamoring for this dubiously-useful novelty (Yeah, there'll be cries about that from those who really like em, but if you really like em, how about a purpose-made accessory you could plug in? ) ...in a weathersealed camera they expect to be smaller, lighter, and under the usual price curve when Pentaxians who'll shell out actually tend to be among the last purists... I dunno, there. I'd rather get my eye closer to the finder I'm carrying an SLR for and make the LCD as good for the inevitable chimping as possible.
Yes, I have also yet to see a tilt/swivel LCD, which properly replaces an angle-view finder


QuoteOriginally posted by opiedog Quote
someone in the other forum who shoots both confers that the 7d is a little noisy at low iso.
YMMV
Pentax K7 VERSUS Canon T2I! [Page 2]: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review
Thanks for the link. Richard Smals is a fine chap, always worth a read




QuoteOriginally posted by RolloR Quote
I mean "like a K-7." I like to think that APS-C cameras should be sized like Canon rebels, with the bigger ones like Pentax K-7 and Nikon D90. I mean I like holding the 7D/5DII/D300. But carrying them around is a different thing.

I have to agree, I think 8fps is asking too much. Maybe 7fps "with battery grip" would be ok
a higher frame rate camera, would be very welcome indeed


QuoteOriginally posted by smc Quote
I would be surprised if Pentax went away from the size of the K7. When I received mine, I was a little disappointed as it was way too small, the buttons had moved, but eventually I got used to it. I sold it recently thinking I could make do with the K20d only to find, ironically, that the K20d now feels too big. So I have a K7 coming and the K20d will go. My point is that you might find yourself growing into the camera, especially if you add a grip. The K7 is still huge as compared to older 35mm film bodies...
good point




QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
As Arpe mentioned, even on a tripod you may not be able to afford the delay caused by a timer (e.g., when birding).

I think removing the SR button was a bad idea for the above reasons but also regarding alerting potential customers to the difference between in-body and in-lens image stabilisation.
agree


QuoteOriginally posted by CWyatt Quote
I'm someone who uses the ISO on the front finger wheel continuously.
Occasionally shoot on TAv, but 90% of the time it's aperture priority, with aperture on the rear wheel and ISO on the front.
Exactly the same here. I returned home from a trip to Malaysia, where I had given my K10 its first big workout, where I really felt this feature was what I needed. Upon returning, I read on a forum, how it was possible to assign front wheel with Iso.
One of the reasons, I'll always go for two wheel cameras.

As I recall, it was the new features that the K10 brought to the market, which made Canikon add auto-Iso to their models.

Seems *Isteve also discusses how he will miss the Pentax possibility, which he will not have on his D700 or D90 :
"•Automatic auto-ISO shutter speed setting based on program line and lens FL"
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1036&message=35213895&changemode=1

QuoteOriginally posted by nulla Quote
Robin... I recently got a K-x as a second camera and this is one of the things I miss the most, so I tend to disagree there.

On the topic of SR... this is a post from another thread.
"People may figured this themselves, but I noticed a lot of people complaining on the forums that they have to dive into the menu to change SR settings. I thought I'd post a quicker alternative that I use:

Hit 'Info' button, and move your active selection to SR. Any time, you want to toggle SR, you just have to hit 'Info', rear-dial, and you can toggle SR on/off quickly. Two clicks just short of a dedicated SR button.

Disclaimer: Ofcourse, this wouldn't work if you change other settings using info button as well."
Thanks. If they do the same on the K7 follower, or I end up getting the K7, good to know.

QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
On a typical day out shooting, just carrying the camera around with me, I might do macro, street, landscape or cityscape shots, looking for details, large form structures, colours or textures. That's a lot of different shooting priorities, some of which call for narrow DOF, others deep, others requiring me to freeze action (a flower waving in the breeze) others not. For some of these I am happy with ISO 400 or 800 and might need higher settings to get shots sharp enough. If I'm converting to B&W I don't care about noise. But for other shots I need ISO 100 or 200 for clarity of detail.

So I change regularly to get the best ISO for the job at hand. I have tried auto but having the camera make the decision for me is not my way.

I also tend to shoot events. Dance is extremely challenging because I am restricted to low light and there is subject movement. Music gigs have highly contrasty stage lighting and rapidly changing illumination. Here too changing ISO is key to responding to the situation.

That's my scene anyway. YMMV.
Well stated

Last edited by Jonson PL; 07-14-2010 at 04:49 AM.
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