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11-27-2009, 06:27 PM   #61
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So, as the price gap between the K-x and the K-7 narrows because of dropping K-7 prices, Pentax is going to squeeze a body in between the two?

This was one of the problems with the K200D. It was a great camera that was priced too close to the K20D. I could be wrong, but at one point I thought they were $100 apart in price.

So the K-x kit is about $600.00 +/- and the K-7 is $1050 +/- would we expect an $800.00 K200D replacement?

11-27-2009, 09:48 PM   #62
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It seems to me that there is a gap in Pentax's range around the high end of the compact range and the low end of the interchangeable lens range, i.e. micro 4/3rds territory. I assume that Pentax doesn't have the resources to come up with their own system in this space, so they would have to either:
  • licence a comparable system from another maker
  • cede this space to the competition
  • produce a highly specced non-interchangeable-lens camera

I'm hoping for the third option!
11-27-2009, 09:58 PM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by asw66 Quote
It seems to me that there is a gap in Pentax's range around the high end of the compact range and the low end of the interchangeable lens range, i.e. micro 4/3rds territory. I assume that Pentax doesn't have the resources to come up with their own system in this space, so they would have to either:
  • licence a comparable system from another maker
  • cede this space to the competition
  • produce a highly specced non-interchangeable-lens camera

I'm hoping for the third option!
Or option D, drop out of the compact market entirely.
11-27-2009, 10:51 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by KungPOW Quote
So, as the price gap between the K-x and the K-7 narrows because of dropping K-7 prices, Pentax is going to squeeze a body in between the two?

This was one of the problems with the K200D. It was a great camera that was priced too close to the K20D. I could be wrong, but at one point I thought they were $100 apart in price.

So the K-x kit is about $600.00 +/- and the K-7 is $1050 +/- would we expect an $800.00 K200D replacement?
I think it'd be interesting if what they did was just to count on the price of the top model falling as improvements are made, like where the K20d got price-positioned over time: say, next year there's a K-7 Super, the K-7 still makes a nice, say, eight hundred dollar model (Sizewise, they don't have too much to worry about market-segmentwise, so why not. If they set up a progression like that, they can produce fewer models. All they'd need then, perhaps, is to make a K-X type upgrade, same basic works, but with weathersealing and an LCD and maybe more controls. I presume they'd want the entry level models to be always keeping up with the competition: for each of those they could make a fancier amateur version that's basically got the goodies on the body and sort of meet in the middle.

11-28-2009, 05:02 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by KungPOW Quote
So, as the price gap between the K-x and the K-7 narrows because of dropping K-7 prices, Pentax is going to squeeze a body in between the two?

This was one of the problems with the K200D. It was a great camera that was priced too close to the K20D. I could be wrong, but at one point I thought they were $100 apart in price.

So the K-x kit is about $600.00 +/- and the K-7 is $1050 +/- would we expect an $800.00 K200D replacement?
as i said, i know only the rumors my pentax rep gave me, not the facts. maybe that "K200D successor" will be actually K-7 with K-x sensor and pentamirror?

btw, i *wish* we got prices like those - over here, K-x + DA18-55 is ~$950, K-7 + DA18-55WR is ~$1950, so there is quite a gap for mid-priced model.
11-28-2009, 06:21 AM   #66
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I guess the biggest complaint that is still out there about the K7 is the continuous focus auto focus, that it isn't very predictive. I suppose they could work on that as well as on high iso noise. Those things don't really seem that big that people would buy a camera with those improvements for four hundred dollars more than the older K7 model, but I guess that is the problem any time a new body is released, is to convince those with older bodies that it is time for an upgrade.
11-28-2009, 06:38 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I guess the biggest complaint that is still out there about the K7 is the continuous focus auto focus, that it isn't very predictive. I suppose they could work on that as well as on high iso noise.
CD-AF improvements would be welcome as well. It is precise but very slow. I'm glad it is there, I use it sometimes. But faster would be better.
11-30-2009, 11:45 AM   #68
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and then What Comes ?

11-30-2009, 02:44 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by Arpe Quote
Rubbish. In real life I'm shooting sport at 5:30pm in the middle of winter. It's very dark then. I'm often at ISO 3200-4500 at 1/350, f2.8. I'd really rather be at 1/500 minimum. I do not measurebate, I would just like cleaner images at higher ISOs...
Agreed. To a certain extent (doesn't help with DOF) high ISO can compensate for the slim selection of fast Pentax lenses (compared what is offered from Canikon). For some of us, with the existing Pentax cameras, f/2.8 lenses are just too slow. Improved AF is up there too.
12-28-2009, 02:04 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
Sure they can. Canon did it with the G11 after the misstep of the G10, and the G11 is a rousing success.
But Canon still offers 18-24mp cameras, where as this would be Pentax's top camera. In saying that, the Nikon's top APS-C D300S is a great camera at 12mp, very good all across the board.

Having slowly started to move into the 'pro' area, with an eye to photojournalism, I've been considering a shift to (probably) Nikon. I'm at a point where I really want to buy into a system, with a purchase of good, tough, fast glass. I'd like to stay with pentax at this point really, having seen the K-x high ISO I'm tempted to stay, but I won't buy a K-x due to lack of higher end features and control-ability. what I think I'd need to see in a new Pentax camera would be (as others have mentioned):

- Better high ISO performance (seems to have been cracked by Pentax)
- Better AF performance (better speed, tracking, and accuracy in low light)

Those are the only areas I think a Pentax body is really lacking in compared to Canon/Nikon. If I saw Pentax realise that kind of camera, I'd be very tempted to really buy in for a 16-50mm and 60-250 f/4 starred lenses. I'd prefer 70-200 f/2.8, and the 50-135 is too small a range, but if 60-250 is sharp at f/4, it's not too much of a trade off.

One other thing I think Pentax is lacking is a fast, sealed wide angle. Something that will trump the 16-50 at 16mm and go a few mm wider. Something from 10 or 12mm f/2.8 or 3.5. I'm still dreaming of owning Nikon's 14-24 f/2.8.

Still, give me really good AF and high ISO, and I'll stay and buy Star glass.

Last edited by CWyatt; 12-28-2009 at 02:15 PM.
12-28-2009, 02:35 PM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by KungPOW Quote
So, as the price gap between the K-x and the K-7 narrows because of dropping K-7 prices, Pentax is going to squeeze a body in between the two?

This was one of the problems with the K200D. It was a great camera that was priced too close to the K20D. I could be wrong, but at one point I thought they were $100 apart in price.

So the K-x kit is about $600.00 +/- and the K-7 is $1050 +/- would we expect an $800.00 K200D replacement?
I would hope so because it's not just about price. Style, build and size come into the equation as well. The K20D seemed to be a happy fit just below the K7, offering ruggedness and ability without the video and other bells and whistles which may not be wanted by everyone with an appropriate saving. I've not handled the K-x but from what I gather from the reviews and pictures it would be too small and fiddly for my rather clumsy fingers and although a camera may have the most wonderful spec in the world it would still be useless if it's physically too 'compact' for heathens like me. One of the things I like about MF is that they are big cameras and I find it nigh on impossible to use my daughter's miniature compact so anything that follows that trend is bad news as far as I am concerned.

Car manufacturers are very well aware that customers appreciate a choice of style which is why they offer such a diversity of cars in the same price bracket. Saloons, hatchbacks and MPV's from the same maker will often overlap in price according to specification and indeed they will share the same engines and so forth, but the range of vehicles is there for a reason, to enable people to buy what suits them best.

Justin.
12-28-2009, 03:05 PM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by CWyatt Quote
But Canon still offers 18-24mp cameras, where as this would be Pentax's top camera. In saying that, the Nikon's top APS-C D300S is a great camera at 12mp, very good all across the board.

Having slowly started to move into the 'pro' area, with an eye to photojournalism, I've been considering a shift to (probably) Nikon. I'm at a point where I really want to buy into a system, with a purchase of good, tough, fast glass. I'd like to stay with pentax at this point really, having seen the K-x high ISO I'm tempted to stay, but I won't buy a K-x due to lack of higher end features and control-ability. what I think I'd need to see in a new Pentax camera would be (as others have mentioned):

- Better high ISO performance (seems to have been cracked by Pentax)
- Better AF performance (better speed, tracking, and accuracy in low light)

Those are the only areas I think a Pentax body is really lacking in compared to Canon/Nikon. If I saw Pentax realise that kind of camera, I'd be very tempted to really buy in for a 16-50mm and 60-250 f/4 starred lenses. I'd prefer 70-200 f/2.8, and the 50-135 is too small a range, but if 60-250 is sharp at f/4, it's not too much of a trade off.

One other thing I think Pentax is lacking is a fast, sealed wide angle. Something that will trump the 16-50 at 16mm and go a few mm wider. Something from 10 or 12mm f/2.8 or 3.5. I'm still dreaming of owning Nikon's 14-24 f/2.8.

Still, give me really good AF and high ISO, and I'll stay and buy Star glass.
If you really need it, buy immediately Nikon, you are clearly not in Pentax target. As a would be photojournalist, you are certainly aware that most big papers have their own photo-gear inventory, that journalist share bodies and lenses and that for special works, they rent equipments (like super-tele)
For all the reason above, journalists use almost exclusively Nikon and Canon, this is not just a question of camera competence. A few years ago, Nikon had lost its edge, now it is Canon who had lost some support because of autofocus issues with their last generation.

Pentax target is landscape and outdoor photographer. Benjikan who opened this thread is already out of target, as he is in the fashion industry. If I remember correctly, he moved to the K10D because his Canon 1DsMKII showed regularly some color inconsistencies.

The strength of Pentax is size and it compact prime lineup in your case. If you intend to become international reporter, then Pentax K7 with a few ltd primes may be cool. The best recent photo-report I've seen (between 2000 and now) was made with a film Leica and a few Voigtlander prime. The reporter followed an African from his country in Western Africa to Europe talking the same risks as the immigrants.

Now if you want to shoot sports, that's another story.

Again, if you consider you need what Nikon offer and Pentax doesn't, buy Nikon. Pentax made no commitment to fulfill your needs.
12-28-2009, 03:22 PM   #73
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I think the K7, K-x came out to compete just with the hybrids in each respective classes, dam i'm still tweaking my K200D; there is so much to tweak in the custom funtions, i didn't need more resolution just good weather protected system.

If anything they'll replace the K200D with a respective hybrid to compete at that level.

I got a Canon 7D but you know what the K7 is easier on the muscles if you're going to walk around all day shooting, they both have to be tweaked according to the shooters style but the Canon has more to tweak imo...a lot more in both stills and video, they're both great tools it's just that if the shooter took the time to tweak his camera's custom functions with each respective lense he'll get great photos without having to switch to the "newest and greatest"...this is why lazy shooters like me who never tweak always look for the best P&S DSLR

I'm sure there will be a K9 to compete with said K7, 300s group and the K7 will take the duty of K200D/K20D replacement in it's respective arena.

Like one of my Canon friends said how can i get better shots with my sheitty Pentax with kit/old lenses vs his high tech T1I...all i can do is laugh btw he's trying to get me to sell him my new 7D

Also personally i wouldn't get the K-x becuase i prefer a fully weather sealed system K7 is my next purchase, i think i can only use the "i need to borrow your K7" for just a few more times before buddy tells me off
12-28-2009, 03:27 PM   #74
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how can i get better shots with my sheitty Pentax with kit old lenses vs his high tech T1I.

Perhaps you're just a better photographer. The camera is merely an instrument, a means to an end, after all.

Justin.
12-28-2009, 03:31 PM   #75
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Whatever Pentax comes out with for a "replacement" of the K7, I am just hoping they will keep a format so that either a K10/20D grip or a K7 grip will fit!
I still love the K20D and I use it as much as I did before I got the K7. Both now serve specific purposes and I am hoping that Pentax will keep some sort of consistency for the future camera "bodies".
And as long as can use both the APS-C and FF lenses I own.

JP
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