What Comes after the K7

rvannatta · 03-20-2010, 07:31 AM

Originally posted by RolloR

K-7 successor with the following would make me content at the moment:

- 8 fps
- 1080p, H.264 video, with manual controls of course (including audio)
- not more than $1,200 SRP

Basically like a Canon 7D, only cheaper and NOT GIGANTIC like a FF camera

Then after this they can try to make FF bodies or 645D MkII or whatever.

on the high speed, high resolution video, I would rather suspect that engineers
have some problems processing/storing the volume of data collected. Bigger data pipes mean more expensive electronics and more electric power=bigger batteries adding bulk and cost, but I suspect Pentax is smart enough to know that if they can win the specifications war and keep the price under control
it would be good for business.

aleonx3 · 03-20-2010, 07:41 AM

Originally posted by RolloR

K-7 successor with the following would make me content at the moment:

- 8 fps
- 1080p, H.264 video, with manual controls of course (including audio)
- not more than $1,200 SRP

Basically like a Canon 7D, only cheaper and NOT GIGANTIC like a FF camera

Then after this they can try to make FF bodies or 645D MkII or whatever.

@RolloR, that is exactly what I want as the K-7 successor (you said it better than me

); although I may add high ISO performance feature like the K-x (the current K-7 ISO performance is still miles ahead of my K10D anyway) would be icing on the cake for me.

**interested_observer** · 03-20-2010, 09:07 AM

For me the successor to the K7 needs

At least an incremental improvement to auto focusing. With my K20, there are times when it hunts and there is no need to. Plenty of light and plenty of contrast. From reading I see the KX is an improvement, so it needs to be better than the KX.
At times I would like to have access to higher ISO - similar to the KX.
Keep the size, weight, build quality and ergonomics. Nothing larger than the K20!
Keep the APS-C - I do NOT want to buy new glass. I am happy with what I have.
Resolution at 14MP is just fine - however nothing to add to the current noise level - if anything reduce it.
Video - I would have said it does not matter, however being in a few unique situations where it would have been extraordinarily nice, 1024P @ 30fps HD using Pentax glass - they are almost there, just slide it in.
Focus stacking - I would like to see them slide in (replace built in HDR) with a +/- auto focus mode across 3 shots. Say a half a mechanical screw turn up and down, past the current focus point.
Weather Sealing - is nice - keep it...

24X36NOW · 03-20-2010, 10:08 AM

Originally posted by RolloR

K-7 successor with the following would make me content at the moment:

- 8 fps
- 1080p, H.264 video, with manual controls of course (including audio)
- not more than $1,200 SRP

Basically like a Canon 7D, only cheaper and NOT GIGANTIC like a FF camera

Canon 7D: 5.8 x 4.5 x 2.9 in.

Canon 5D Mk II: 6 x 4.5 x 3 in.

You mean "Like a 7D but not like a 7D?!

At 1/10" deeper and 2/10" wider, you'd have trouble telling the difference. A FF camera is not "gigantic" because it has a FF sensor; it's size is the size the camera maker chooses to make it. For example, the top Nikon bodies prior to the D3 were almost the same size as the D3, even with an APS-C sensor.

I think what you mean is "not gigantic like a Canon or Nikon."

24X36NOW · 03-20-2010, 10:15 AM

Originally posted by omega leader

Pentax has quite the extensive 645 lens lineup. It has never had a truly competitive FF lineup.

I beg to differ. Go back to manual focus days, and you'll see a Pentax lens lineup that could stand toe to toe with anyone's.

24X36NOW · 03-20-2010, 10:35 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

I think that Pentax has decided, rightly or wrongly, that they cannot challenge Canon and Nikon's dominance in the full frame market. An upper end, full frame camera, with great high iso and fast in lens auto focus is beyond their capability at this point in time. As to whether or not it eventually will be within their capability remains to be seen.

If that were the case, exactly what is it that makes them believe they can "challenge Canon and Nikon's dominance" in the APS-C market?! A FF dSLR is most definitely not beyond their capabilities at this point, if they approach it in the same way they have approached the APS-C market. Upgrades to match "ultimate" performance can follow. Continued "we can't compete, so we won't bother trying" foot dragging, on the other hand, will just lead to further "dominance" by Canon and Nikon.

**Rondec** · 03-20-2010, 01:33 PM

Originally posted by 24X36NOW

If that were the case, exactly what is it that makes them believe they can "challenge Canon and Nikon's dominance" in the APS-C market?! A FF dSLR is most definitely not beyond their capabilities at this point, if they approach it in the same way they have approached the APS-C market. Upgrades to match "ultimate" performance can follow. Continued "we can't compete, so we won't bother trying" foot dragging, on the other hand, will just lead to further "dominance" by Canon and Nikon.

Pentax isn't challenging Canon/Nikon on any level. They are doing their own thing, marching to their own drum. If they were doing the Canon/Nikon thing, they would currently have about four APS-C cameras out, with the bottom end ones crippled to protect the upper end.

I have no doubt that when they feel the market is ready for a semi-pro full frame, they will release one, but not before.

nulla · 03-20-2010, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by Rondec

Pentax isn't challenging Canon/Nikon on any level. They are doing their own thing, marching to their own drum. If they were doing the Canon/Nikon thing, they would currently have about four APS-C cameras out, with the bottom end ones crippled to protect the upper end.

I have no doubt that when they feel the market is ready for a semi-pro full frame, they will release one, but not before.

Well said... agree to this fully .. and I am happy with the way they are marching along.

Neil

philippe · 03-21-2010, 02:50 AM

Oh please, a simple good, small, rugged, basic, no nonsense, straight forward camera; perhaps FF, good lenses (primes) and affordable.
Why does the d***d LX always comes up?

RolloR · 03-21-2010, 08:38 AM

Originally posted by aleonx3

@RolloR, that is exactly what I want as the K-7 successor (you said it better than me

); although I may add high ISO performance feature like the K-x (the current K-7 ISO performance is still miles ahead of my K10D anyway) would be icing on the cake for me.

Ahhh we can just imagine!

Originally posted by 24X36NOW

Canon 7D: 5.8 x 4.5 x 2.9 in.

Canon 5D Mk II: 6 x 4.5 x 3 in.

You mean "Like a 7D but not like a 7D?!

At 1/10" deeper and 2/10" wider, you'd have trouble telling the difference. A FF camera is not "gigantic" because it has a FF sensor; it's size is the size the camera maker chooses to make it. For example, the top Nikon bodies prior to the D3 were almost the same size as the D3, even with an APS-C sensor.

I think what you mean is "not gigantic like a Canon or Nikon."

I mean "like a K-7." I like to think that APS-C cameras should be sized like Canon rebels, with the bigger ones like Pentax K-7 and Nikon D90. I mean I like holding the 7D/5DII/D300. But carrying them around is a different thing.

Originally posted by rvannatta

on the high speed, high resolution video, I would rather suspect that engineers
have some problems processing/storing the volume of data collected. Bigger data pipes mean more expensive electronics and more electric power=bigger batteries adding bulk and cost, but I suspect Pentax is smart enough to know that if they can win the specifications war and keep the price under control
it would be good for business.

I have to agree, I think 8fps is asking too much. Maybe 7fps "with battery grip" would be ok

For the video, Canon did it with a Rebel (T2i)

All in all,

- Video features of the $800 Canon T2i
- Body of the existing Pentax K-7
- Low/High ISO IQ of the $650 K-x (maybe even better!)
- Bump up the FPS speed a bit
- Perhaps different colors? lol
- not more than $1,200

then IMHO we've got a perfect APS-C camera!

Ratmagiclady · 03-21-2010, 01:25 PM

I think we can bank on the high-ISO of the next model to be at least like the K-x, that seems a foregone conclusion. (I wouldn't be stunned to see a 'K-7 Super' come out with whatever improvement they made there. I have to imagine they've been plugging away at a new AF system for some time, as well. )

My hope is they'll keep it somewhat basic and make the viewfinder and focusing screen something really special.

lol101 · 03-21-2010, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by 24X36NOW

I beg to differ. Go back to manual focus days, and you'll see a Pentax lens lineup that could stand toe to toe with anyone's.

No need to go back to the manual focus days, the FA line was a complete and competitive lens line.

**rparmar** · 03-21-2010, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by aragondina

If the 645d could rip off 8 frames a second, had a useful ISO range, and had blistering fast autofocus I would consider it.

You obviously cannot do the basic research needed to see that the 645D already has faster AF than other MF cameras (well, the 645N did, so I imagine) as well as faster frame count and better ISO.

So I guess you'll be buying one then?

**rparmar** · 03-21-2010, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by WerTicus

But deaf people are Bose's target market!

LOL.

And deaf rich people are the target market for B&O.

**robbiec** · 03-21-2010, 04:54 PM

I think they need to look at a K7+ type replacement with uprated processing and memory writing capabilities. A 1GB piece of memory is $3 on the spot market currently, something like an ARM chip or Atom should be able to process GBs per second of data without chewing up battery life too much.
A touch sensitive LCD would give them a clear ergonomic advantage as well as allowing it to spread right across the back.
Its amazing really how little technology has crossed over from the netbooks / mobile phone markets to the DSLR market.

03-20-2010, 09:07 AM	#183
interested_observer Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Tumbleweed, Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,707	For me the successor to the K7 needs At least an incremental improvement to auto focusing. With my K20, there are times when it hunts and there is no need to. Plenty of light and plenty of contrast. From reading I see the KX is an improvement, so it needs to be better than the KX. At times I would like to have access to higher ISO - similar to the KX. Keep the size, weight, build quality and ergonomics. Nothing larger than the K20! Keep the APS-C - I do NOT want to buy new glass. I am happy with what I have. Resolution at 14MP is just fine - however nothing to add to the current noise level - if anything reduce it. Video - I would have said it does not matter, however being in a few unique situations where it would have been extraordinarily nice, 1024P @ 30fps HD using Pentax glass - they are almost there, just slide it in. Focus stacking - I would like to see them slide in (replace built in HDR) with a +/- auto focus mode across 3 shots. Say a half a mechanical screw turn up and down, past the current focus point. Weather Sealing - is nice - keep it...

03-20-2010, 07:31 AM	#181
rvannatta Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Apiary, Oregon Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,181	Originally posted by RolloR K-7 successor with the following would make me content at the moment: - 8 fps - 1080p, H.264 video, with manual controls of course (including audio) - not more than $1,200 SRP Basically like a Canon 7D, only cheaper and NOT GIGANTIC like a FF camera Then after this they can try to make FF bodies or 645D MkII or whatever. on the high speed, high resolution video, I would rather suspect that engineers have some problems processing/storing the volume of data collected. Bigger data pipes mean more expensive electronics and more electric power=bigger batteries adding bulk and cost, but I suspect Pentax is smart enough to know that if they can win the specifications war and keep the price under control it would be good for business.

03-20-2010, 07:41 AM	#182
aleonx3 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brampton, Ontario Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,996	Originally posted by RolloR K-7 successor with the following would make me content at the moment: - 8 fps - 1080p, H.264 video, with manual controls of course (including audio) - not more than $1,200 SRP Basically like a Canon 7D, only cheaper and NOT GIGANTIC like a FF camera Then after this they can try to make FF bodies or 645D MkII or whatever. @RolloR, that is exactly what I want as the K-7 successor (you said it better than me ); although I may add high ISO performance feature like the K-x (the current K-7 ISO performance is still miles ahead of my K10D anyway) would be icing on the cake for me.

03-20-2010, 10:08 AM	#184
24X36NOW Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: CT, USA Posts: 498	Originally posted by RolloR K-7 successor with the following would make me content at the moment: - 8 fps - 1080p, H.264 video, with manual controls of course (including audio) - not more than $1,200 SRP Basically like a Canon 7D, only cheaper and NOT GIGANTIC like a FF camera Canon 7D: 5.8 x 4.5 x 2.9 in. Canon 5D Mk II: 6 x 4.5 x 3 in. You mean "Like a 7D but not like a 7D?! At 1/10" deeper and 2/10" wider, you'd have trouble telling the difference. A FF camera is not "gigantic" because it has a FF sensor; it's size is the size the camera maker chooses to make it. For example, the top Nikon bodies prior to the D3 were almost the same size as the D3, even with an APS-C sensor. I think what you mean is "not gigantic like a Canon or Nikon."

03-20-2010, 10:15 AM	#185
24X36NOW Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: CT, USA Posts: 498	Originally posted by omega leader Pentax has quite the extensive 645 lens lineup. It has never had a truly competitive FF lineup. I beg to differ. Go back to manual focus days, and you'll see a Pentax lens lineup that could stand toe to toe with anyone's.

03-20-2010, 10:35 AM	#186
24X36NOW Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: CT, USA Posts: 498	Originally posted by Rondec I think that Pentax has decided, rightly or wrongly, that they cannot challenge Canon and Nikon's dominance in the full frame market. An upper end, full frame camera, with great high iso and fast in lens auto focus is beyond their capability at this point in time. As to whether or not it eventually will be within their capability remains to be seen. If that were the case, exactly what is it that makes them believe they can "challenge Canon and Nikon's dominance" in the APS-C market?! A FF dSLR is most definitely not beyond their capabilities at this point, if they approach it in the same way they have approached the APS-C market. Upgrades to match "ultimate" performance can follow. Continued "we can't compete, so we won't bother trying" foot dragging, on the other hand, will just lead to further "dominance" by Canon and Nikon.

03-20-2010, 01:33 PM	#187
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,652	Originally posted by 24X36NOW If that were the case, exactly what is it that makes them believe they can "challenge Canon and Nikon's dominance" in the APS-C market?! A FF dSLR is most definitely not beyond their capabilities at this point, if they approach it in the same way they have approached the APS-C market. Upgrades to match "ultimate" performance can follow. Continued "we can't compete, so we won't bother trying" foot dragging, on the other hand, will just lead to further "dominance" by Canon and Nikon. Pentax isn't challenging Canon/Nikon on any level. They are doing their own thing, marching to their own drum. If they were doing the Canon/Nikon thing, they would currently have about four APS-C cameras out, with the bottom end ones crippled to protect the upper end. I have no doubt that when they feel the market is ready for a semi-pro full frame, they will release one, but not before.

03-20-2010, 02:56 PM	#188
nulla Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 1,560	Originally posted by Rondec Pentax isn't challenging Canon/Nikon on any level. They are doing their own thing, marching to their own drum. If they were doing the Canon/Nikon thing, they would currently have about four APS-C cameras out, with the bottom end ones crippled to protect the upper end. I have no doubt that when they feel the market is ready for a semi-pro full frame, they will release one, but not before. Well said... agree to this fully .. and I am happy with the way they are marching along. Neil

03-21-2010, 02:50 AM	#189
philippe Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Flanders Fields Posts: 463	Oh please, a simple good, small, rugged, basic, no nonsense, straight forward camera; perhaps FF, good lenses (primes) and affordable. Why does the d***d LX always comes up?

03-21-2010, 08:38 AM	#190
RolloR Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Photos: Albums Posts: 264	Originally posted by aleonx3 @RolloR, that is exactly what I want as the K-7 successor (you said it better than me ); although I may add high ISO performance feature like the K-x (the current K-7 ISO performance is still miles ahead of my K10D anyway) would be icing on the cake for me. Ahhh we can just imagine! Originally posted by 24X36NOW Canon 7D: 5.8 x 4.5 x 2.9 in. Canon 5D Mk II: 6 x 4.5 x 3 in. You mean "Like a 7D but not like a 7D?! At 1/10" deeper and 2/10" wider, you'd have trouble telling the difference. A FF camera is not "gigantic" because it has a FF sensor; it's size is the size the camera maker chooses to make it. For example, the top Nikon bodies prior to the D3 were almost the same size as the D3, even with an APS-C sensor. I think what you mean is "not gigantic like a Canon or Nikon." I mean "like a K-7." I like to think that APS-C cameras should be sized like Canon rebels, with the bigger ones like Pentax K-7 and Nikon D90. I mean I like holding the 7D/5DII/D300. But carrying them around is a different thing. Originally posted by rvannatta on the high speed, high resolution video, I would rather suspect that engineers have some problems processing/storing the volume of data collected. Bigger data pipes mean more expensive electronics and more electric power=bigger batteries adding bulk and cost, but I suspect Pentax is smart enough to know that if they can win the specifications war and keep the price under control it would be good for business. I have to agree, I think 8fps is asking too much. Maybe 7fps "with battery grip" would be ok For the video, Canon did it with a Rebel (T2i) All in all, - Video features of the $800 Canon T2i - Body of the existing Pentax K-7 - Low/High ISO IQ of the $650 K-x (maybe even better!) - Bump up the FPS speed a bit - Perhaps different colors? lol - not more than $1,200 then IMHO we've got a perfect APS-C camera!

03-21-2010, 01:25 PM	#191
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	I think we can bank on the high-ISO of the next model to be at least like the K-x, that seems a foregone conclusion. (I wouldn't be stunned to see a 'K-7 Super' come out with whatever improvement they made there. I have to imagine they've been plugging away at a new AF system for some time, as well. ) My hope is they'll keep it somewhat basic and make the viewfinder and focusing screen something really special.

03-21-2010, 03:04 PM	#192
lol101 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Garennes sur Eure France Photos: Gallery Posts: 899	Originally posted by 24X36NOW I beg to differ. Go back to manual focus days, and you'll see a Pentax lens lineup that could stand toe to toe with anyone's. No need to go back to the manual focus days, the FA line was a complete and competitive lens line.

03-21-2010, 04:03 PM	#193
rparmar Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,819	Originally posted by aragondina If the 645d could rip off 8 frames a second, had a useful ISO range, and had blistering fast autofocus I would consider it. You obviously cannot do the basic research needed to see that the 645D already has faster AF than other MF cameras (well, the 645N did, so I imagine) as well as faster frame count and better ISO. So I guess you'll be buying one then?

03-21-2010, 04:06 PM	#194
rparmar Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,819	Originally posted by WerTicus But deaf people are Bose's target market! LOL. And deaf rich people are the target market for B&O.

03-21-2010, 04:54 PM	#195
robbiec Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Cork Photos: Albums Posts: 1,882	I think they need to look at a K7+ type replacement with uprated processing and memory writing capabilities. A 1GB piece of memory is $3 on the spot market currently, something like an ARM chip or Atom should be able to process GBs per second of data without chewing up battery life too much. A touch sensitive LCD would give them a clear ergonomic advantage as well as allowing it to spread right across the back. Its amazing really how little technology has crossed over from the netbooks / mobile phone markets to the DSLR market.