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11-28-2009, 08:33 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
This is the "small" APS Pentax K10D compared to the "big" Pentax 645NII.
The K10D with the DA* 16-50/2.8. The 645NII with FA645 33-55/4.5.

As can be seen from the images, this camera is far from the traditional large MF studio tools. The 645D will be a portable field camera smaller than pro FF DSLR from Nikon and Canon. The lenses are no larger than Canon L-glass. I believe Pentax have a winner here....


this is exactly my point..it's clear most of the people here have never seen those hassy they talk about...i have used a h3 39 millions,it weight as a brick , its long more than 20 cm, it's totally umcomfortable to use handholding, its use are only studio and planned landscape shots.
this pentax with 39 million pixel will blow away every ff for IQ and every other MDF for portability, only comparable camera is leica s at the moment.
id like to see a titlt and shift lens to use with the camera.

11-28-2009, 08:35 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ben_Edict Quote
Pål - yes, I know that. But a current Hasselblad H3 or H4 is NO way bigger. Also a Mamiya/PhaseOne 645 is not bigger. So, there is no size advantage of the Pentax 645 over its direct competitors. Even an old Hasselblad V series camera is quite small and hardly bigger than a 645, apart from the slightly longer flang-distance. This is, because Hasselblad was always a "field" camera in the past (not counting the EL/ELX modells) and all the 645 modells were aimed at the field market, too.

Ben
an haselblad 3 is not bigger?

clear u have never used it.

i have..with the wide angle is impossible to handhold with easiness and comfort. it's not big, it's superbig.
i have tried a mamiya with zd back, and it's not as big as the hassy but still is a camera to use in studio.
11-28-2009, 10:52 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ben_Edict Quote
This is eactly what I doubt. If they sell it for 5000 Euros, they will perhaps gain some market share. But the price realistically will be around 10,000 Euros - and then, why would anybody buy a Pentax if he can have a Mamiya/PhaseOne for the same money or a H'blad for only little more? I doubt very much, that Pentax is in a position to make dumping prices on the 645D, just to gain market share - they need to earn money with each single body and that means, that these won't come cheap.

Ben
Well, if Pentax can sell the 645D at close to the same price as the big boys top of the line FF models, I think it will sell well. A MF sensor of the size being suggested will offer better IQ than FF and there are a ton of 645D lenses out there. Time will tell, but I suspect that a 645D could make some inroads into both studio and outdoor (nature/landscape as opposed to wildlife) photography markets, including wedding and fashion photography.
11-28-2009, 11:10 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Freevision Quote
But he admitted there is no ff dslr plan in their road map.
Denying things is a part of the game. When the time is right they have rights to talk about it, like we see now with the 645D.

11-28-2009, 12:30 PM   #35
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I simply don't understand why they're producing a 645D at this time. I enjoy film, so I've been thinking about buying a 645N myself, but in digital I just don't get it. 35mm cameras will be over 40mp's in 2 or 3 years (if not sooner) which is enough resolution for just about anyone, pro or otherwise. There are certainly people that would rather use medium format and their giant view finders(take the APS-C vs 35mm argument up one size and repeat), I understand that, but is this really more of a pressing need than a full frame DSLR? Not a day goes by on here without someone griping that Pentax doesn't make a FF DSLR, but how many people actually care about medium format? Plus, unless I'm mistaken unless you live in Japan you are SOL if you want the 645D anyway. What in the hell is that all about? That seems like a big FU to the rest of the markets. "Hey, we have a pro system, but only if you live in Japan, so sorry".

I'm fine with them making a 645D for those that want one (the more options the better), but Pentax has much bigger holes that need to be filled first.
11-28-2009, 12:39 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
I'm fine with them making a 645D for those that want one (the more options the better), but Pentax has much bigger holes that need to be filled first.
My thinking. And given the limited resources of that company, I would imagie quite a few things, which could have brought speedier to a waiting market, than another 645 system for Japan. But Pentax was always quite home market-centric, even in film days.

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11-28-2009, 12:59 PM   #37
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I think the 645 is an easier project than full frame. People won't have high expectations for auto focus, frames per second -- all of the things that they would definitely complain about if Pentax released an under-speced full frame camera.

The bar has been set really high for full frame by Canon and Nikon and I have a feeling that Pentax just can't jump over it.
11-28-2009, 01:11 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
I simply don't understand why they're producing a 645D at this time. .
Because theres a market for it. Pentax have been in the high-end image quality market since 1968; there's no reason for them to abandon this segment. In fact, I think Pentax as a mass maker, can make MF digital closer to the mainstream.
There are lots of Pentax MF users who want a digital platform for their lenses.

11-28-2009, 01:17 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
35mm cameras will be over 40mp's in 2 or 3 years (if not sooner) which is enough resolution for just about anyone, pro or otherwise. .
Very unlikely. Maybe approaching 30mp. But the 645D will still blow it away in image quality. Even if an FF camera had 39mp it's lenses would have to have double the resolution of the Pentax 645 lenses, half the aberations and half the color fringing in order to be equal at a certain output size. Besides, Pentax canb easily update the 645D sensor and electronics the way the camera is designed.
But the logic is faulty. Why would Nikon bring out a 24mp camera when FF cameras will have 40mp in three years?
11-28-2009, 01:18 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
Plus, unless I'm mistaken unless you live in Japan you are SOL if you want the 645D anyway. .
You are mistaken. It will be sold world-wide...
11-28-2009, 02:01 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by MikePerham Quote
Well, if Pentax can sell the 645D at close to the same price as the big boys top of the line FF models, I think it will sell well. A MF sensor of the size being suggested will offer better IQ than FF and there are a ton of 645D lenses out there. Time will tell, but I suspect that a 645D could make some inroads into both studio and outdoor (nature/landscape as opposed to wildlife) photography markets, including wedding and fashion photography.
Yes, if the camera would be that cheap - but that is more as doubtful. Pentax has a record of inventing nice digital cameras, which then disappeared silently (MZ-D and several incarnations of the 645D), because they were too expensive too produce.

One would assume, that Pentax was aware of the app. 4000 USD price tag of the Philips FF sensor, when they showed the MZ-D. Nevertheless they announced the camera, showed prototypes and then withdraw, because they realized the sensor was way too expensive for the Pentax clientele. Hey, the price for the sensor was well-known to anyone, how can they realize that only after they already had done the development?

MF sensors are much more expensive, than FF sensors today and the processing power needs to be considerably higher, not due to Megapixels, but due to colour depth. Pentax processors are already slow, how slow can it get with a 645D? Or do they invest in the development of much faster processing units and into a much more expensive sensor, but keep a DSLR price tag? And still, even then, they need to make a healthy profit with every single camera body!
I can only believe in such miracles, when I see the price on the dealer's shelves.

If Pentax was able to produce such miracles, we would already have a FF Pentax body for a K7 price. But I am happy to be wrong and would then really contemplate a 645D. And, by the way, I am not trying to bash Pentax. Everybody knows the problems and incompetencies this manufacturer demonstrated over and over again. I just think, that a high-end camera for a low-end price is only wishful thinking.

Ben
11-28-2009, 02:02 PM   #42
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Oh this is great news! And exactly what I am waiting for.

I played with a K-x recently and it was a nice camera to use and hold.

But it is just missing too many important features.

The K-7 lacks the `AA' battery support unless you add the bulky grip.

No, I'll be very pleased to see a K200D replacement.

Here's hoping it has.

- Pentaprism.
- Live view.
- Closer to 100% FOV.
- Video modes.
- + All the original features.

.-.-.
QuoteOriginally posted by elkarrde Quote
it seems that the K200D successor is coming next spring - weather-sealed, possibly with K-x sensor, priced to fill the gap between the K-7 and the K-x.

all my info is unconfirmed, but it came from local pentax rep, so it should be a bit above the rumor level...
11-28-2009, 02:20 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Very unlikely. Maybe approaching 30mp. But the 645D will still blow it away in image quality. Even if an FF camera had 39mp it's lenses would have to have double the resolution of the Pentax 645 lenses, half the aberations and half the color fringing in order to be equal at a certain output size.
That sounds like the type of arguments we've heard on here from the anti-FF crowd for years when discussing APS-C vs FF IQ. I assume those same people will now argue that size does matter and bigger is better. That said, I have no doubt the 645D will be a wonderful pro studio camera (if they get the flash sync up faster than 1/60th) and produce sharper images than any 35mm camera, but that has no bearing on the much larger user base that I happen to be a member of that wants a Pentax 35mm camera. It's just very odd that Pentax is willing to ignore a very large and very vocal segment of their users while catering to the smallest of minorities.

QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
But the logic is faulty. Why would Nikon bring out a 24mp camera when FF cameras will have 40mp in three years?
Are you saying Nikon won't have a new D3x in less than 3 years? Or do you think the Nikon D3X replacement will also have 24mp's? Possible, but unlikely. Besides, I was thinking Canon would do it before Nikon. If Canon ups the pixel density in the 1Ds to the same level as the new 7D it will have 46mp's.
11-28-2009, 02:39 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
It's just very odd that Pentax is willing to ignore a very large and very vocal segment of their users while catering to the smallest of minorities..
You mean they should ignore the MF market instead? Pentax high-end presence has been in the MF market. They have been very sucessful there. They had up to 50% of the MF market i Japan (the worlds largest MF market).
I'm sure Pentax will release an FF camera one day.
11-28-2009, 02:49 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
I simply don't understand why they're producing a 645D at this time. I enjoy film, so I've been thinking about buying a 645N myself, but in digital I just don't get it. 35mm cameras will be over 40mp's in 2 or 3 years (if not sooner) which is enough resolution for just about anyone, pro or otherwise.
A guy once said that that 1 MB RAM was more than anyone would ever need. Remember who is it? Laughable isn't it?
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