Pentax 645D to be released April 2010

Fototim · 12-05-2009, 04:50 AM

Originally posted by ogl

I think that 645D will be announced at PMA2010 on February.

What's wrong with April?

Pentax don't seem to care about PMA any more. Haven't introduced anything there since K20/200.

thibs · 12-05-2009, 05:38 AM

Originally posted by Fototim

What's wrong with April?

Pentax don't seem to care about PMA any more. Haven't introduced anything there since K20/200.

They may simply announce the 645D with availability for april.
But, indeed what's wrong with PMA? I dunno, maybe they simply didn't have product to annouce at that very moment?

ogl · 12-05-2009, 05:40 AM

Originally posted by Fototim

Pentax don't seem to care about PMA any more. Haven't introduced anything there since K20/200.

Is it your guess?

Funny post.

You mean K20D/K200D is not the big event.

???

1. K20/K200D was only 12 months old on March, 2009. K-m was 6 month old.
A bit early for new cameras.
2. Anyway, Pentax had plan to announce K-7 at PMA2009, but K-7 was in beta-testing and the announcement had been postponed till May.
3. Pentax DSLR replacement cycle - ~ 1.5 year for top-model, ~ 1 year for low-end.

Pentax showed DA 15mm F4 at PMA2009, for example.

Fototim · 12-05-2009, 08:19 AM

Originally posted by ogl

Is it your guess?

Funny post.

You mean K20D/K200D is not the big event.

???

The key word of my sentence was since.

Off cource K20/200 where big events.
And off course it is a guess. That's what we are doing here, isn't it?
Playing with fragments of more or less reliable information, spiced up with large dozes of imagination. That's what I'm doing, and it seem you do the same.

Anyway, since then they have announced K-m, K-7 and K-x. None of them at PMA. I see a possible pattern here.

So I can't see why this speculation is funnier than yours. Not that it matters.

Time will tell, and I will be pleased to be proven wrong.

Last edited by Fototim; 12-05-2009 at 08:26 AM. Reason: Because I can't make up my mind :)

ogl · 12-05-2009, 08:56 AM

Ned Bunnel said about PMA2010 at N.Y. K-x's party (behind-the-scene) this September

er1kksen · 12-05-2009, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by ogl

I understand this. I mean I'm testing that's going to knock everyone's socks off, not video.

Indeed. However, I have to ask when exactly he stated that? LL just recently came out with their report on the Leica S2, including a 14-minute video report, so I think it's highly possible he was referring to that.

marcinski · 12-05-2009, 04:55 PM

He was referring to the upcoming review of the new Hartblei camera, nothing else.
Marcin

Vertex Ninja · 12-05-2009, 09:49 PM

Another thing I don't see mentioned here(may have missed it) when comparing the 645D to D3X/MarkIII, is that most, if not all medium format digital backs lack an AA filter and can achieve closer to the real resolution of the sensor. And don't they also have a real 12-15 stops of dynamic range, very similar to negative film? Because of this, I think the 645D could be very successful in the nature shooting market if it's in spitting distance price wise to the high-end FF 35mm cameras. A few tilt/shift lenses would make it even better. If I had the money

and didn't like film so much, I'd buy it.

eurostar · 12-06-2009, 06:25 AM

Originally posted by Vertex Ninja

A few tilt/shift lenses would make it even better. If I had the money

and didn't like film so much, I'd buy it.

I don't understand why they didn't took advantge of the crop factor to create a camera with a built in tilt-shift device

thibs · 12-06-2009, 07:33 AM

Originally posted by eurostar

I don't understand why they didn't took advantge of the crop factor to create a camera with a built in tilt-shift device

This point has been brought already. It seems the major problem is the size/weight of the sensor. Clearly, you can't move a big sensor like you move an APS-C sensor.

It may still be possible however though, remember the crop (from a diagonal POV) is only 1.1X. There may not be much space to move (I dunno 645 mount well enough to dig into this).

eurostar · 12-06-2009, 08:04 AM

Originally posted by thibs

This point has been brought already. It seems the major problem is the size/weight of the sensor. Clearly, you can't move a big sensor like you move an APS-C sensor.

It may still be possible however though, remember the crop (from a diagonal POV) is only 1.1X. There may not be much space to move (I dunno 645 mount well enough to dig into this).

I wasn't referring to a moveable sensor, but just to the "empty space" that a mirror for a cropped sensor would leave in the mirror box. Shortening the box and putting a tilt shift device between mirror box and mount, it would allow for T&S with every lens (and with more freedom of movement with 67-mount lenses).

Obviously a 1,1x crop factor wouldn't leave space for such a device, but last I heard, by the 55 normal lens of the 645D the crop factor was deduced to be 1,3x.

thibs · 12-06-2009, 10:02 AM

Originally posted by eurostar

I wasn't referring to a moveable sensor, but just to the "empty space" that a mirror for a cropped sensor would leave in the mirror box. Shortening the box and putting a tilt shift device between mirror box and mount, it would allow for T&S with every lens (and with more freedom of movement with 67-mount lenses).

Obviously a 1,1x crop factor wouldn't leave space for such a device, but last I heard, by the 55 normal lens of the 645D the crop factor was deduced to be 1,3x.

IMO the only way to do such things would either to have a very complicated mount or a way to move the sensor. There may be other solutions though, none that I know.

As for the crop, on a diagonal basis, of the 645D does indeed use the Kodak 39MP CCD, then the crop is 1.1X (and 1.3X looking at the surface).
Normal 645 diagonal is 69.7mm.

The KAF-16803 (if I'm not mistaken) which was thought to be used when 645D was in early development has a 52.1mm diagonal which gives roughly 1.35X crop on the diagonal. If we look at surface it means, 1354mm² instead of 645 film standard 2324mm². It is also a square format sensor.

The currently rumoured sensor would be 1.1X (or 1.3X on surface) crop.

No space IMO left.
Pentax may also select the newer 50MP sensor but price would rocket IMO.

er1kksen · 12-06-2009, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by marcinski

He was referring to the upcoming review of the new Hartblei camera, nothing else.
Marcin

Thanks for clarifying. Sometimes it's hard to cut through the wild speculations to the facts of the matter.

Ben_Edict · 12-07-2009, 07:46 AM

Originally posted by Vertex Ninja

If I had the money

and didn't like film so much, I'd buy it.

This is exactly the MF problem: Hundreds of thousands of photogs only talk about their wishes, but only a few hundred actually buy these cameras. This is, why the market in reality is so small and competitive.

Ben

Ben_Edict · 12-07-2009, 07:50 AM

Originally posted by eurostar

I wasn't referring to a moveable sensor, but just to the "empty space" that a mirror for a cropped sensor would leave in the mirror box. Shortening the box and putting a tilt shift device between mirror box and mount, it would allow for T&S with every lens (and with more freedom of movement with 67-mount lenses).

Obviously a 1,1x crop factor wouldn't leave space for such a device, but last I heard, by the 55 normal lens of the 645D the crop factor was deduced to be 1,3x.

The problem is, that not only do shift/tilt mechanisms require a lot of space and are very complicated to make, they are also very expensive (see Hasselblad...) A Pentax 645D with integraretd shift/tilt would certainly be much more expensive than it already will be and thus a far cry above any FF DSLR. Even less people would buy it.

Ben

12-05-2009, 05:40 AM	#108
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by Fototim Pentax don't seem to care about PMA any more. Haven't introduced anything there since K20/200. Is it your guess? Funny post. You mean K20D/K200D is not the big event.??? 1. K20/K200D was only 12 months old on March, 2009. K-m was 6 month old. A bit early for new cameras. 2. Anyway, Pentax had plan to announce K-7 at PMA2009, but K-7 was in beta-testing and the announcement had been postponed till May. 3. Pentax DSLR replacement cycle - ~ 1.5 year for top-model, ~ 1 year for low-end. Pentax showed DA 15mm F4 at PMA2009, for example.

12-05-2009, 08:19 AM	#109
Fototim Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Norway Posts: 268	Originally posted by ogl Is it your guess? Funny post. You mean K20D/K200D is not the big event.??? The key word of my sentence was since. Off cource K20/200 where big events. And off course it is a guess. That's what we are doing here, isn't it? Playing with fragments of more or less reliable information, spiced up with large dozes of imagination. That's what I'm doing, and it seem you do the same. Anyway, since then they have announced K-m, K-7 and K-x. None of them at PMA. I see a possible pattern here. So I can't see why this speculation is funnier than yours. Not that it matters. Time will tell, and I will be pleased to be proven wrong. Last edited by Fototim; 12-05-2009 at 08:26 AM. Reason: Because I can't make up my mind :)

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12-05-2009, 04:50 AM	#106
Fototim Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Norway Posts: 268	Originally posted by ogl I think that 645D will be announced at PMA2010 on February. What's wrong with April? Pentax don't seem to care about PMA any more. Haven't introduced anything there since K20/200.

12-05-2009, 05:38 AM	#107
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by Fototim What's wrong with April? Pentax don't seem to care about PMA any more. Haven't introduced anything there since K20/200. They may simply announce the 645D with availability for april. But, indeed what's wrong with PMA? I dunno, maybe they simply didn't have product to annouce at that very moment?

12-05-2009, 08:56 AM	#110
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Ned Bunnel said about PMA2010 at N.Y. K-x's party (behind-the-scene) this September

12-05-2009, 02:30 PM	#111
er1kksen Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Forestville, NY Photos: Albums Posts: 1,801	Originally posted by ogl I understand this. I mean I'm testing that's going to knock everyone's socks off, not video. Indeed. However, I have to ask when exactly he stated that? LL just recently came out with their report on the Leica S2, including a 14-minute video report, so I think it's highly possible he was referring to that.

12-05-2009, 04:55 PM	#112
marcinski Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Dundee, Scotland Posts: 95	He was referring to the upcoming review of the new Hartblei camera, nothing else. Marcin

12-05-2009, 09:49 PM	#113
Vertex Ninja Inactive Account Join Date: May 2007 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana Posts: 652	Another thing I don't see mentioned here(may have missed it) when comparing the 645D to D3X/MarkIII, is that most, if not all medium format digital backs lack an AA filter and can achieve closer to the real resolution of the sensor. And don't they also have a real 12-15 stops of dynamic range, very similar to negative film? Because of this, I think the 645D could be very successful in the nature shooting market if it's in spitting distance price wise to the high-end FF 35mm cameras. A few tilt/shift lenses would make it even better. If I had the money and didn't like film so much, I'd buy it.

12-06-2009, 06:25 AM	#114
eurostar Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Albareto, Italy Photos: Gallery Posts: 819	Originally posted by Vertex Ninja A few tilt/shift lenses would make it even better. If I had the money and didn't like film so much, I'd buy it. I don't understand why they didn't took advantge of the crop factor to create a camera with a built in tilt-shift device

12-06-2009, 07:33 AM	#115
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by eurostar I don't understand why they didn't took advantge of the crop factor to create a camera with a built in tilt-shift device This point has been brought already. It seems the major problem is the size/weight of the sensor. Clearly, you can't move a big sensor like you move an APS-C sensor. It may still be possible however though, remember the crop (from a diagonal POV) is only 1.1X. There may not be much space to move (I dunno 645 mount well enough to dig into this).

12-06-2009, 08:04 AM	#116
eurostar Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Albareto, Italy Photos: Gallery Posts: 819	Originally posted by thibs This point has been brought already. It seems the major problem is the size/weight of the sensor. Clearly, you can't move a big sensor like you move an APS-C sensor. It may still be possible however though, remember the crop (from a diagonal POV) is only 1.1X. There may not be much space to move (I dunno 645 mount well enough to dig into this). I wasn't referring to a moveable sensor, but just to the "empty space" that a mirror for a cropped sensor would leave in the mirror box. Shortening the box and putting a tilt shift device between mirror box and mount, it would allow for T&S with every lens (and with more freedom of movement with 67-mount lenses). Obviously a 1,1x crop factor wouldn't leave space for such a device, but last I heard, by the 55 normal lens of the 645D the crop factor was deduced to be 1,3x.

12-06-2009, 10:02 AM	#117
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by eurostar I wasn't referring to a moveable sensor, but just to the "empty space" that a mirror for a cropped sensor would leave in the mirror box. Shortening the box and putting a tilt shift device between mirror box and mount, it would allow for T&S with every lens (and with more freedom of movement with 67-mount lenses). Obviously a 1,1x crop factor wouldn't leave space for such a device, but last I heard, by the 55 normal lens of the 645D the crop factor was deduced to be 1,3x. IMO the only way to do such things would either to have a very complicated mount or a way to move the sensor. There may be other solutions though, none that I know. As for the crop, on a diagonal basis, of the 645D does indeed use the Kodak 39MP CCD, then the crop is 1.1X (and 1.3X looking at the surface). Normal 645 diagonal is 69.7mm. The KAF-16803 (if I'm not mistaken) which was thought to be used when 645D was in early development has a 52.1mm diagonal which gives roughly 1.35X crop on the diagonal. If we look at surface it means, 1354mm² instead of 645 film standard 2324mm². It is also a square format sensor. The currently rumoured sensor would be 1.1X (or 1.3X on surface) crop. No space IMO left. Pentax may also select the newer 50MP sensor but price would rocket IMO.

12-06-2009, 10:46 AM	#118
er1kksen Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Forestville, NY Photos: Albums Posts: 1,801	Originally posted by marcinski He was referring to the upcoming review of the new Hartblei camera, nothing else. Marcin Thanks for clarifying. Sometimes it's hard to cut through the wild speculations to the facts of the matter.

12-07-2009, 07:46 AM	#119
Ben_Edict Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SouthWest "Regio" Photos: Albums Posts: 3,309	Originally posted by Vertex Ninja If I had the money and didn't like film so much, I'd buy it. This is exactly the MF problem: Hundreds of thousands of photogs only talk about their wishes, but only a few hundred actually buy these cameras. This is, why the market in reality is so small and competitive. Ben

12-07-2009, 07:50 AM	#120
Ben_Edict Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SouthWest "Regio" Photos: Albums Posts: 3,309	Originally posted by eurostar I wasn't referring to a moveable sensor, but just to the "empty space" that a mirror for a cropped sensor would leave in the mirror box. Shortening the box and putting a tilt shift device between mirror box and mount, it would allow for T&S with every lens (and with more freedom of movement with 67-mount lenses). Obviously a 1,1x crop factor wouldn't leave space for such a device, but last I heard, by the 55 normal lens of the 645D the crop factor was deduced to be 1,3x. The problem is, that not only do shift/tilt mechanisms require a lot of space and are very complicated to make, they are also very expensive (see Hasselblad...) A Pentax 645D with integraretd shift/tilt would certainly be much more expensive than it already will be and thus a far cry above any FF DSLR. Even less people would buy it. Ben