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12-07-2009, 07:53 AM   #121
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ben_Edict Quote
This is exactly the MF problem: Hundreds of thousands of photogs only talk about their wishes, but only a few hundred actually buy these cameras. This is, why the market in reality is so small and competitive.

Ben
I don't make money from my pictures though. A professional photographer can expense it. So if by "photogs" you mean amateur hobbyists, then I might agree. I'm certain Hassleblad, Mamyia, Phase One, and Pentax aren't targeting me or the "hundreds of thousands" of people that would like to have one but can't justify it. That would be poor business... Like Bugati making a car and expecting to sell millions just based on internet forum buzz; not likely. I give the execs more credit than that.

12-07-2009, 09:15 AM   #122
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QuoteOriginally posted by Vertex Ninja Quote
I don't make money from my pictures though. A professional photographer can expense it. So if by "photogs" you mean amateur hobbyists, then I might agree. I'm certain Hassleblad, Mamyia, Phase One, and Pentax aren't targeting me or the "hundreds of thousands" of people that would like to have one but can't justify it. That would be poor business... Like Bugati making a car and expecting to sell millions just based on internet forum buzz; not likely. I give the execs more credit than that.
My comment wasn't exactly aimed at you - just that your notion nicely summarized the thinking, that goes throughout this thread: "give me a medium format camera for a DSLR price". We will not get the Pentax 645D for the price of a Canon or Nikon FF and especially not, if all the additional capabilities discussed here would materialize...

Ben
12-07-2009, 10:10 AM   #123
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I know you weren't directing it at me in particular, but if Pentax can sell it for between 10-15,000 US, then it is close to a d3x etc and will be a bargain for what it is. For the pros that want the capability of a Mamiya and P45 back, but could never justify the cost, the Pentax could find itself in a nice spot right between high end FF 35mm and existing medium format gear. I was just saying that forum hype can not be considered an accurate barometer for success in that market... which in a way, if I'm not mistaken, is essentially what you are saying.
12-07-2009, 11:11 AM   #124
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Camera prices are a moving target

Camera prices are a moving target.

In my world $7,500 is half of $15,000.

Today D3x is $7,500:

Nikon | D3x SLR Digital Camera (Camera Body) | 25442 | B&H Photo


Nikon D3x SLR Digital Camera (Camera Body) more info

B&H #NID3X • MFR #25442 Free Shipping (USA)

Our Price:
$7,499.95
Sub Total:
$7,499.95

12-07-2009, 01:35 PM   #125
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QuoteOriginally posted by Vertex Ninja Quote
I was just saying that forum hype can not be considered an accurate barometer for success in that market... which in a way, if I'm not mistaken, is essentially what you are saying.
Oh yes, may be I understood your post the wrong way round. I certainly agree with the "forum hype"...

Ben
12-07-2009, 02:24 PM   #126
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Is there actually some kind of proof for what the price will end up like, or is this all speculation?
12-07-2009, 03:08 PM   #127
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QuoteOriginally posted by kevinschoenmakers Quote
Is there actually some kind of proof for what the price will end up like, or is this all speculation?
I think all we have is speculation. There are a lot of factors involved, the economic climate being prominent in that. I think if it is released, in large part pricing will be according to what the market can handle. I'm sure there's a possibility that any release could be delayed because of the economic situation, nobody knows if there is going to be a continued recovery or if there is going to be a catastrophic downturn.
12-07-2009, 03:17 PM   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by Damn Brit Quote
I think all we have is speculation. There are a lot of factors involved, the economic climate being prominent in that. I think if it is released, in large part pricing will be according to what the market can handle. I'm sure there's a possibility that any release could be delayed because of the economic situation, nobody knows if there is going to be a continued recovery or if there is going to be a catastrophic downturn.
Pentax has either to release this version of the 645D asap - or they have to start again (as has happened before), because the market is already going to 60MP and 39MP will look right next year, but not in 2013...

Ben

12-07-2009, 03:25 PM   #129
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Do we even know for sure if that picture in the first post is real or not?
12-07-2009, 09:53 PM   #130
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QuoteOriginally posted by kevinschoenmakers Quote
Do we even know for sure if that picture in the first post is real or not?
It's a real picture.
12-08-2009, 02:32 AM   #131
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ben_Edict Quote
Pentax has either to release this version of the 645D asap - or they have to start again (as has happened before), because the market is already going to 60MP and 39MP will look right next year, but not in 2013...

Ben
Depends on price...
12-08-2009, 03:10 AM   #132
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The market for Art Print is presently quite down at the moment. (I had that information by someone well introduced into the world of Photo Galleries in Paris, so please don't consider it as pure speculation, the

So the buying power of professionals doing very large prints may be on the down side at the moment. Of course Digital Backs are more rented than bought upfront. But I think this is one of the major challenge at the moment (at the end of the day, a more expensive back will cost more for renting)

I have a feeling that downsizing in budget is a global phenomenon for pro photographers, and that would be the reason for Canon releasing the 7D. APSC is a cheaper and more compact than FF.

On contrary of the other Medium Format players, Pentax have already a good AF and metering system with development costs absorbed by the APSC DSLR market. Yes it will be small like a spot for medium format, but still better than the competition.

The 10 000 $ price point is pure speculation at the moment, but with it and with the familiar form factor and operation of a SLR, Pentax could bring in again weathly amateurs in the Medium Format territory like it used to be during the film era. Amateurs can bring in the volumes than push the costs per unit down. Clearly this bet is not won (and I won't say that I fully understood Pentax vision) but at least, let's praise Pentax/Hoya for trying something different.

The past year have shown that Hoya has been very smart with Pentax positionning, delivering original cameras of great value and market positioning at an aggressive price point. Their strategy have been quite consistent and apparently bringing in results. Sure there haven't been much leaks, but let's give them credit for that too.

The 645D will be a bit above my price point and anyway, I haven't pushed my current hardware to its limits. However, I have the possibility to rent it for a special occasion I will surely give it a try. Square meter prints just way for me !

Regards,
Guillaume
12-09-2009, 06:21 AM   #133
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http://www.kodak.com/global/plugins/acrobat/en/business/ISS/productsummary/F...uctSummary.pdf

New sensor from Kodak. 46*35 mm. 40 MP.
Absolutely new.
12-09-2009, 10:48 AM   #134
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
Camera prices are a moving target.

In my world $7,500 is half of $15,000.
Two can play at this game! You took the high value and compared it. If I take the low value and compare it, it is not that much more for roughly 2x the pixel deminsions and other benefits the camera might have. For example what is the difference between a D700 or A850/900 and the d3x, and people can justify that purchase. Now price an equivalent medium format back like the P45+ and a Mamiya/Phase camera or Hassleblad and compare to a D3X and see which price the 645D would be closer to if priced at 10-15000 usd. However, that price is just complete speculation on my part, so none of us will really know until it comes out, especially me. I'm just pretending to know what I'm talking about.

@Ben
I think you understood me correctly the first time it's just that we take different points of view. I believe that pentax is not seriously taking forums into consideration when planning the camera, so it doesn't really matter that hardly any of us would buy it. We're not the target market.

Last edited by Vertex Ninja; 12-09-2009 at 11:06 AM.
12-09-2009, 01:21 PM   #135
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Good: 40MP, 1.3fps
Bad: 1.3X crop !!!
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