Pentax 645D user manual leak

MikePerham · 11-28-2009, 10:06 AM

Originally posted by Ole

From the diagram the final product looks very much like these images of a prototype.

I wonder if the leak would know what the two taped-over buttons are for.

I like that the EV, ISO and green buttons are placed as on the K-7; makes it easy to switch between the too cameras in the field.

One interesting observation is that the camera strap studs seem to be similar to those on the LX ...where you had a snap on bracket on the camera strap. So much better than the split ring as on the K-7.

**monochrome** · 11-28-2009, 10:15 AM

Interesting that this has "Leaked."

Reminds me of the K-7 viral marketing of leaked blurry images, then better images, then "Coming Soon" postings on the Pentax websites.

Weren't there three or four threads here that went each to the longest threads ever?

Miserere · 11-29-2009, 09:21 AM

Originally posted by jonny1986

My consideration:
-these camera is comparabe only with leica s system...these cameras are big but not more than a canon 1d series for example...theya are portable and they can be used easily as travel camera or strret cameras for reportage for example.

I'm afraid not. The Leica S2 is indeed very small for a MF digital (it's smaller than a Nikon D700!), but the Pentax 645D is cubic in shape, probably quite heavy, definitely larger than the S2, and not at all what I would call portable.

I think this was Pentax's biggest mistake with the camera, wanting to make it backwards compatible, and thus preserving the registration distance of the original 645. Leica designed the S2 from the ground up, and in doing so produced the most compact medium format digital camera in the market...by far!

thibs · 11-29-2009, 09:49 AM

Originally posted by Miserere

I'm afraid not. The Leica S2 is indeed very small for a MF digital (it's smaller than a Nikon D700!), but the Pentax 645D is cubic in shape, probably quite heavy, definitely larger than the S2, and not at all what I would call portable.

I think this was Pentax's biggest mistake with the camera, wanting to make it backwards compatible, and thus preserving the registration distance of the original 645. Leica designed the S2 from the ground up, and in doing so produced the most compact medium format digital camera in the market...by far!

MF? Biffer than 35mm, yes. MF?
Maybe SMF. Small MF LOL.

artemapei · 11-29-2009, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by thibs

MF? Biffer than 35mm, yes. MF?
Maybe SMF. Small MF LOL.

it is smaller than d3, but not d700 - the most compact 645 system...

Alan 2 · 11-29-2009, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by Miserere

I'm afraid not. The Leica S2 is indeed very small for a MF digital (it's smaller than a Nikon D700!), but the Pentax 645D is cubic in shape, probably quite heavy, definitely larger than the S2, and not at all what I would call portable.
I think this was Pentax's biggest mistake with the camera, wanting to make it backwards compatible, and thus preserving the registration distance of the original 645. Leica designed the S2 from the ground up, and in doing so produced the most compact medium format digital camera in the market...by far!

The Leica is 23k without a lens. They don't have a lens for under 4k. That's a whole different price range. Pentax would be competing at a very different price point.

thibs · 11-29-2009, 01:53 PM

Originally posted by artemapei

it is smaller than d3, but not d700 - the most compact 645 system...

Sorry, I should have been more precise, I was pointing to sensor size...

S2 is 30x45mm
645D (according to current information ie 39MP Kodak CCD) is 46x61mm.

I wouldn't call S2 an medium format IMO.

gazonk · 11-29-2009, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by thibs

645D (according to current information ie 39MP Kodak CCD) is 46x61mm.

Are you sure? That would make it more-than-full-frame MF (the 645 film size is smaller at 56 x 41.5). It would also make 76 mm the normal lens focal length, i.e. the 55mm on the road map would then be a WA lens.

raz-0 · 11-29-2009, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by Miserere

I'm afraid not. The Leica S2 is indeed very small for a MF digital (it's smaller than a Nikon D700!), but the Pentax 645D is cubic in shape, probably quite heavy, definitely larger than the S2, and not at all what I would call portable.
I think this was Pentax's biggest mistake with the camera, wanting to make it backwards compatible, and thus preserving the registration distance of the original 645. Leica designed the S2 from the ground up, and in doing so produced the most compact medium format digital camera in the market...by far!

You may not like it, but it isn't a mistake.

Pentax is clearly looking to make a splash with regard to features vs. price. One way to help with that is to actually have a large used lens market. Pentax hasn't been particularly fast to get to market with any of their lenses of late, and without the used lens market, I suspect they'd have zero chance of success, regardless of price.

The leica may may be smaller, but most MF cameras are not, and you don't exactly see leica taking over the market by selling small at a high price point.

The thing I'd be most concerned about is if the electronics are the same as the k-7. USing the same electronics doens't hurt you in a film camera because focusing and metering are pretty much equivalent tasks. In a digital camera, you now have to process 39MP vs 14MP. Unless they have parallel units, you are going to see a lot of the numbers drop with the camera.

turbosaturn · 11-29-2009, 02:24 PM

I sure hope that the camera would be fast enough using SD cards.

jptreen · 11-29-2009, 02:34 PM

Quote:

The thing I'd be most concerned about is if the electronics are the same as the k-7. USing the same electronics doens't hurt you in a film camera because focusing and metering are pretty much equivalent tasks. In a digital camera, you now have to process 39MP vs 14MP. Unless they have parallel units, you are going to see a lot of the numbers drop with the camera

.

It wouldn't worry me as I'm not in the market for it anyway but I believe that if the 645D came out being about to operate at a little under 40% the K-7 speed (1.9 fps, I think - slaughter my maths if need be) then it would already beat everything else out there (again, please tell me if I'm wrong).

Having said that, if Pentax go with the Kodak 39MP then the speed bottleneck might be before you even get out of the sensor, nobody else AFAIK has managed anything stunning here. As for noise, let us say that if there was a bigger version of the K-7 sensor in an MF camera nobody would be bitching about bad high-ISO quality, they'd be falling over themselves to have it.

When tooling up for MF, nobody's hunting around for 8fps, they're settling for 1.

Miserere · 11-29-2009, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by thibs

645D (according to current information ie 39MP Kodak CCD) is 46x61mm.

Where did you get this info? Everything I've read points to a 36x48mm sensor, including the 55mm "kit lens" (the diagonal of this sensor is 60mm).

Quote:

I wouldn't call S2 an medium format IMO.

Maybe not, but all digital medium format sensors right now are cropped, i.e., not the same size as film medium format. Maybe we should call them DMF and reserve MF for film.

**RuiC** · 11-29-2009, 05:17 PM

Originally posted by Ole

From the diagram the final product looks very much like these images of a prototype.
I wonder if the leak would know what the two taped-over buttons are for.
I like that the EV, ISO and green buttons are placed as on the K-7; makes it easy to switch between the too cameras in the field.

My guess for one of the buttons is to switch to FX format, using D/FA lenses via a fully auto up-converter, so fulfilling the needs of the vast FF fans.

Rui

ewalk · 11-29-2009, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by RuiC

My guess for one of the buttons is to switch to FX format, using D/FA lenses via a fully auto up-converter, so fulfilling the needs of the vast FF fans.
Rui

Now there's a nifty concept - a crop mode for FF.

**rparmar** · 11-29-2009, 09:18 PM

Originally posted by thibs

645D (according to current information ie 39MP Kodak CCD) is 46x61mm.

No, I don't think so.

I summarised the available info in the article Pentax 645 Digital On The Horizon. There's a nice table there with a comparison of sensor sizes.

645D is expected to be 48×36mm, which is a diagonal of 2.1x APS-C. 35mm is 36×24mm or 1.5x APS-C.

11-28-2009, 10:15 AM	#32
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Viral Marketing Strategy Interesting that this has "Leaked." Reminds me of the K-7 viral marketing of leaked blurry images, then better images, then "Coming Soon" postings on the Pentax websites. Weren't there three or four threads here that went each to the longest threads ever?

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11-28-2009, 10:06 AM	#31
MikePerham Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Prince George, BC Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 642	Originally posted by Ole From the diagram the final product looks very much like these images of a prototype. I wonder if the leak would know what the two taped-over buttons are for. I like that the EV, ISO and green buttons are placed as on the K-7; makes it easy to switch between the too cameras in the field. One interesting observation is that the camera strap studs seem to be similar to those on the LX ...where you had a snap on bracket on the camera strap. So much better than the split ring as on the K-7.

11-29-2009, 09:21 AM	#33
Miserere Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Boston Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,993	Originally posted by jonny1986 My consideration: -these camera is comparabe only with leica s system...these cameras are big but not more than a canon 1d series for example...theya are portable and they can be used easily as travel camera or strret cameras for reportage for example. I'm afraid not. The Leica S2 is indeed very small for a MF digital (it's smaller than a Nikon D700!), but the Pentax 645D is cubic in shape, probably quite heavy, definitely larger than the S2, and not at all what I would call portable. I think this was Pentax's biggest mistake with the camera, wanting to make it backwards compatible, and thus preserving the registration distance of the original 645. Leica designed the S2 from the ground up, and in doing so produced the most compact medium format digital camera in the market...by far!

11-29-2009, 09:49 AM	#34
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by Miserere I'm afraid not. The Leica S2 is indeed very small for a MF digital (it's smaller than a Nikon D700!), but the Pentax 645D is cubic in shape, probably quite heavy, definitely larger than the S2, and not at all what I would call portable. I think this was Pentax's biggest mistake with the camera, wanting to make it backwards compatible, and thus preserving the registration distance of the original 645. Leica designed the S2 from the ground up, and in doing so produced the most compact medium format digital camera in the market...by far! MF? Biffer than 35mm, yes. MF? Maybe SMF. Small MF LOL.

11-29-2009, 10:37 AM	#35
artemapei Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Moscow-Guangzhou Posts: 71	Originally posted by thibs MF? Biffer than 35mm, yes. MF? Maybe SMF. Small MF LOL. it is smaller than d3, but not d700 - the most compact 645 system...

11-29-2009, 12:44 PM	#36
Alan 2 Forum Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Madison WI U.S.A. Posts: 60	Originally posted by Miserere I'm afraid not. The Leica S2 is indeed very small for a MF digital (it's smaller than a Nikon D700!), but the Pentax 645D is cubic in shape, probably quite heavy, definitely larger than the S2, and not at all what I would call portable. I think this was Pentax's biggest mistake with the camera, wanting to make it backwards compatible, and thus preserving the registration distance of the original 645. Leica designed the S2 from the ground up, and in doing so produced the most compact medium format digital camera in the market...by far! The Leica is 23k without a lens. They don't have a lens for under 4k. That's a whole different price range. Pentax would be competing at a very different price point.

11-29-2009, 01:53 PM	#37
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by artemapei it is smaller than d3, but not d700 - the most compact 645 system... Sorry, I should have been more precise, I was pointing to sensor size... S2 is 30x45mm 645D (according to current information ie 39MP Kodak CCD) is 46x61mm. I wouldn't call S2 an medium format IMO.

11-29-2009, 02:07 PM	#38
gazonk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oslo area, Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,746	Originally posted by thibs 645D (according to current information ie 39MP Kodak CCD) is 46x61mm. Are you sure? That would make it more-than-full-frame MF (the 645 film size is smaller at 56 x 41.5). It would also make 76 mm the normal lens focal length, i.e. the 55mm on the road map would then be a WA lens.

11-29-2009, 02:13 PM	#39
raz-0 Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Central NJ Posts: 470	Originally posted by Miserere I'm afraid not. The Leica S2 is indeed very small for a MF digital (it's smaller than a Nikon D700!), but the Pentax 645D is cubic in shape, probably quite heavy, definitely larger than the S2, and not at all what I would call portable. I think this was Pentax's biggest mistake with the camera, wanting to make it backwards compatible, and thus preserving the registration distance of the original 645. Leica designed the S2 from the ground up, and in doing so produced the most compact medium format digital camera in the market...by far! You may not like it, but it isn't a mistake. Pentax is clearly looking to make a splash with regard to features vs. price. One way to help with that is to actually have a large used lens market. Pentax hasn't been particularly fast to get to market with any of their lenses of late, and without the used lens market, I suspect they'd have zero chance of success, regardless of price. The leica may may be smaller, but most MF cameras are not, and you don't exactly see leica taking over the market by selling small at a high price point. The thing I'd be most concerned about is if the electronics are the same as the k-7. USing the same electronics doens't hurt you in a film camera because focusing and metering are pretty much equivalent tasks. In a digital camera, you now have to process 39MP vs 14MP. Unless they have parallel units, you are going to see a lot of the numbers drop with the camera.

11-29-2009, 02:24 PM	#40
turbosaturn Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 75	I sure hope that the camera would be fast enough using SD cards.

11-29-2009, 02:34 PM	#41
jptreen Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: "around" Posts: 116	Quote: The thing I'd be most concerned about is if the electronics are the same as the k-7. USing the same electronics doens't hurt you in a film camera because focusing and metering are pretty much equivalent tasks. In a digital camera, you now have to process 39MP vs 14MP. Unless they have parallel units, you are going to see a lot of the numbers drop with the camera . It wouldn't worry me as I'm not in the market for it anyway but I believe that if the 645D came out being about to operate at a little under 40% the K-7 speed (1.9 fps, I think - slaughter my maths if need be) then it would already beat everything else out there (again, please tell me if I'm wrong). Having said that, if Pentax go with the Kodak 39MP then the speed bottleneck might be before you even get out of the sensor, nobody else AFAIK has managed anything stunning here. As for noise, let us say that if there was a bigger version of the K-7 sensor in an MF camera nobody would be bitching about bad high-ISO quality, they'd be falling over themselves to have it. When tooling up for MF, nobody's hunting around for 8fps, they're settling for 1.

11-29-2009, 03:43 PM	#42
Miserere Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Boston Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,993	Originally posted by thibs 645D (according to current information ie 39MP Kodak CCD) is 46x61mm. Where did you get this info? Everything I've read points to a 36x48mm sensor, including the 55mm "kit lens" (the diagonal of this sensor is 60mm). Quote: I wouldn't call S2 an medium format IMO. Maybe not, but all digital medium format sensors right now are cropped, i.e., not the same size as film medium format. Maybe we should call them DMF and reserve MF for film.

11-29-2009, 05:17 PM	#43
RuiC Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Lisboa - The best destination in Europe Posts: 633	Originally posted by Ole From the diagram the final product looks very much like these images of a prototype. I wonder if the leak would know what the two taped-over buttons are for. I like that the EV, ISO and green buttons are placed as on the K-7; makes it easy to switch between the too cameras in the field. My guess for one of the buttons is to switch to FX format, using D/FA lenses via a fully auto up-converter, so fulfilling the needs of the vast FF fans. Rui

11-29-2009, 05:36 PM	#44
ewalk Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 316	Originally posted by RuiC My guess for one of the buttons is to switch to FX format, using D/FA lenses via a fully auto up-converter, so fulfilling the needs of the vast FF fans. Rui Now there's a nifty concept - a crop mode for FF.

11-29-2009, 09:18 PM	#45
rparmar Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,819	Originally posted by thibs 645D (according to current information ie 39MP Kodak CCD) is 46x61mm. No, I don't think so. I summarised the available info in the article Pentax 645 Digital On The Horizon. There's a nice table there with a comparison of sensor sizes. 645D is expected to be 48×36mm, which is a diagonal of 2.1x APS-C. 35mm is 36×24mm or 1.5x APS-C.