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11-29-2009, 04:42 PM   #1
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Kodak 50mp Medium Format Sensor for $3,500

I recalled seeing this info on Kodak 50mp Medium Format Sensor retail cost from July 2008 and dug it up to share the information. Here's the kodak link which takes time to load. I'll guess their Kodak 39mp sensor should cost less than $3500 for Pentax to buy thus allowing Pentax to hit a 1 Million Yen price target. One Million Yen target is running about $11,600 US Dollars lately.


EEProductCenter.com :: Kodak delivers next-generation 50-MP CCD image sensor


and heres the 50mp info & specs from Kodak:


">>>
Rochester, N.Y. — Eastman Kodak Company has claimed the industry's first 50-megapixel CCD image sensor for the professional photography market, capturing digital images at unprecedented resolution and detail thanks to a newly designed 6.0-micron pixel and several other advances. With an 8176 x 6132 pixel array, Kodak said the KAF-50100 50-megapixel sensor provides the highest resolution available in the popular 48 x 36-mm optical format used in medium format photography.


Working with leading camera makers, Kodak's Image Sensor Solutions group focused on several key areas of improvement with the new CCD image sensor design including higher resolution while maintaining dynamic range, reducing noise and faster capture. The result is the company's new TRUESENSE 6.0 micron Full Frame CCD Technology Platform, which increases both the resolution and camera performance. The KAF-50100 is the first Kodak sensor to use the company's new technology.


Based on a 6.0-micron pixel, the platform provides increased data throughput for a faster frame rate, a reduced "click to capture" time for improved camera response, lower power consumption for improved battery life, and improved color fidelity, while still retaining key performance parameters available from the larger, 6.8-micron pixel used in current products.


They needed additional resolution that directly drives the requirement for a smaller pixel, moving from a 6.8-micron pixel for the 39 MP sensor to 6.0-micron pixel for the 50 MP device, said Michael DeLuca, marketing manager for Image Sensor Solutions at Eastman Kodak Company. This is a 30 percent change in area resulting in a 30 percent change in resolution, he said.


In addition to increasing resolution, they wanted to maintain all other specs including dynamic range. In order to retain the 70-dB dynamic range spec for the device, Kodak had to implement a few other redesigns in the sensor. DeLuca said it required a new amplifier design to help reduce noise and a new four-output architecture, compared to two outputs used in the 39-MP sensor, to help manage the increased quantity of data available from the image sensors, enabling sensor operation at one frame per second (fps) for a 50-megapixel device, and to gain additional bandwidth. This also helps to lower the master clock, which helps further reduce noise, said DeLuca.


Kodak also implemented several other performance improvements. A new global reset function, which allows the entire sensor array to be reset using only a single clock pulse, reduces both power consumption (improving battery life in the camera) and the "click to capture" time (now measured in microseconds instead of milliseconds) for improved camera response.


Kodak also refined the spectral characteristics of the red pigment to improve color fidelity, allowing sensors based on this new platform to provide richer, more accurate colors.


The 50-MP CCD image sensor may be used in other applications including aerial photography. Case-in-point: With a 50-megapixel camera, in an aerial photo of a field 1-1/2 miles across, you could detect an object about the size of a small notebook computer (1 foot x 1 foot).


The new 50-MP CCD image sensor has already been designed into Hasselblad's new H3DII-50 high-end DSLR camera system, touting the 1 fps capture rate due to the 4-channel readout structure. The H3DII-50 will be available in October 2008.


Availability: Engineering grade devices of the KAF-50100 are currently available, with volume production planned for fourth quarter 2008.
Pricing: $3500 in volume.
Product information: KAF-50100
<<<"

and for more 50mp specs to read, here's the $26,000 Hassy this $3,500 kodak sensor is installed in:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/644448-REG/Hasselblad_70380542_H3DII_5...LR_Camera.html


Last edited by Samsungian; 11-29-2009 at 05:50 PM. Reason: added link
11-30-2009, 12:07 PM   #2
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Thanks for sharing. That's really interesting because you rarely get any info on sensor prices, as well as information on such exotic sensors.

Well, actually i by the prices of current cameras i thought the sensor costs even more, when its size increases.
Knowing this and form some previous topics about 645D, where it has been said that it will most likely use K-7 electronics, we can approximately assume that 645D without the sensor may cost as much as k-7 body (the price for k-7's sensor, sealing and other extras may cover the 645d's body size and it's specific price increases, like bigger prism).

So with amazon's price quote of 1,056.99$ you could actually make something like 645D for roughly ~4000$. Of course this does not mean that it will be sold at such price.
11-30-2009, 01:28 PM   #3
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You're welcome

You're welcome. I misplaced the link and it took quite a while to relocate it. I wanted to place it somewhere I won't misplace it again and seeing how its kinda related to new 645D, it would be a good place to archive the info .


I find it facinating a $26,000 Hassy uses a $3,500 sensor. Thats some lovely profit margin.


I'd like to see same link with detailed specs for Pentax current Kodak 39mp medium format sensor & price.


As you can see these big sensors are designed for about 1 frame per second max.


I think you're right, a maximum $4000 total manufacturing cost is involved in producing a 645D 39mp camera in late 2009, if not a bit less money.

Last edited by Samsungian; 11-30-2009 at 01:42 PM.
12-04-2009, 02:31 AM   #4
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What would be awesome is if Pentax released the 645D at right around $7k. It would really stick it to the high end "Full Frame" models from Canikon.

12-04-2009, 05:31 PM   #5
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Although there may only be $4000 worth of parts in an MF digital camera there is a huge amount of R&D that must be paid for too. What we don't know is how much of the existing R&D for the APS-C cameras Pentax can use for the 645D. In the case of their competitors that would be exactly nothing, so Pentax has an advantage there.
12-04-2009, 05:56 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Paul Ewins Quote
Although there may only be $4000 worth of parts in an MF digital camera there is a huge amount of R&D that must be paid for too. What we don't know is how much of the existing R&D for the APS-C cameras Pentax can use for the 645D. In the case of their competitors that would be exactly nothing, so Pentax has an advantage there.
I recall the K-7 was rumored to have a philosophical change of direction during development. I wonder if Pentax redirected some of the 645D engineering into the K-7 with this in mind? Spread some of the R&D expense for the 645D across the volume of the K-7?
12-05-2009, 03:13 PM   #7
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Very likely, because they both are cameras, and most of the functionality is almost identcal (they coulduse the same electronics, code for most of the parts) what actually differs is the physical/optical properties, where they already have good fundaments from film MF cameras.
12-07-2009, 06:02 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I recall the K-7 was rumored to have a philosophical change of direction during development. I wonder if Pentax redirected some of the 645D engineering into the K-7 with this in mind? Spread some of the R&D expense for the 645D across the volume of the K-7?
Yes they did but the other way around. All Pentax MF cameras are based on 35mm cameras. The 645D shares almost certainly camera electronics with K-7....

02-14-2010, 06:12 AM   #9
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The 645D March 11th countdown 24 days to go

The 645D March 11th countdown, 24 days to go

Will it use
50mp Kodak Sensor in article below, 2008 retail cost of $3,500 or
39mp or
31mp or
22mp or
18mp ?

http://www.digitalcamerainfo.com/content/Kodak-Announces-18-Megapixel-Image-...Pentax-645.htm



QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
I recalled seeing this info on Kodak 50mp Medium Format Sensor retail cost from July 2008 and dug it up to share the information. Here's the kodak link which takes time to load. I'll guess their Kodak 39mp sensor should cost less than $3500 for Pentax to buy thus allowing Pentax to hit a 1 Million Yen price target. One Million Yen target is running about $11,600 US Dollars lately.


EEProductCenter.com :: Kodak delivers next-generation 50-MP CCD image sensor


and heres the 50mp info & specs from Kodak:


">>>
Rochester, N.Y. — Eastman Kodak Company has claimed the industry's first 50-megapixel CCD image sensor for the professional photography market, capturing digital images at unprecedented resolution and detail thanks to a newly designed 6.0-micron pixel and several other advances. With an 8176 x 6132 pixel array, Kodak said the KAF-50100 50-megapixel sensor provides the highest resolution available in the popular 48 x 36-mm optical format used in medium format photography.


Working with leading camera makers, Kodak's Image Sensor Solutions group focused on several key areas of improvement with the new CCD image sensor design including higher resolution while maintaining dynamic range, reducing noise and faster capture. The result is the company's new TRUESENSE 6.0 micron Full Frame CCD Technology Platform, which increases both the resolution and camera performance. The KAF-50100 is the first Kodak sensor to use the company's new technology.


Based on a 6.0-micron pixel, the platform provides increased data throughput for a faster frame rate, a reduced "click to capture" time for improved camera response, lower power consumption for improved battery life, and improved color fidelity, while still retaining key performance parameters available from the larger, 6.8-micron pixel used in current products.


They needed additional resolution that directly drives the requirement for a smaller pixel, moving from a 6.8-micron pixel for the 39 MP sensor to 6.0-micron pixel for the 50 MP device, said Michael DeLuca, marketing manager for Image Sensor Solutions at Eastman Kodak Company. This is a 30 percent change in area resulting in a 30 percent change in resolution, he said.


In addition to increasing resolution, they wanted to maintain all other specs including dynamic range. In order to retain the 70-dB dynamic range spec for the device, Kodak had to implement a few other redesigns in the sensor. DeLuca said it required a new amplifier design to help reduce noise and a new four-output architecture, compared to two outputs used in the 39-MP sensor, to help manage the increased quantity of data available from the image sensors, enabling sensor operation at one frame per second (fps) for a 50-megapixel device, and to gain additional bandwidth. This also helps to lower the master clock, which helps further reduce noise, said DeLuca.


Kodak also implemented several other performance improvements. A new global reset function, which allows the entire sensor array to be reset using only a single clock pulse, reduces both power consumption (improving battery life in the camera) and the "click to capture" time (now measured in microseconds instead of milliseconds) for improved camera response.


Kodak also refined the spectral characteristics of the red pigment to improve color fidelity, allowing sensors based on this new platform to provide richer, more accurate colors.


The 50-MP CCD image sensor may be used in other applications including aerial photography. Case-in-point: With a 50-megapixel camera, in an aerial photo of a field 1-1/2 miles across, you could detect an object about the size of a small notebook computer (1 foot x 1 foot).


The new 50-MP CCD image sensor has already been designed into Hasselblad's new H3DII-50 high-end DSLR camera system, touting the 1 fps capture rate due to the 4-channel readout structure. The H3DII-50 will be available in October 2008.


Availability: Engineering grade devices of the KAF-50100 are currently available, with volume production planned for fourth quarter 2008.
Pricing: $3500 in volume.
Product information: KAF-50100
<<<"

and for more 50mp specs to read, here's the $26,000 Hassy this $3,500 kodak sensor is installed in:

Hasselblad | H3DII-50 Digital SLR Camera (Body Only) | 70380542
02-14-2010, 08:00 AM   #10
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My guess is 39mp sensor same as the Leica S2 but a comparable system will be half the price point. *$15,000 for a basic kit*
02-14-2010, 09:02 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
I recalled seeing this info on Kodak 50mp Medium Format Sensor retail cost from July 2008 and dug it up to share the information. Here's the kodak link which takes time to load. I'll guess their Kodak 39mp sensor should cost less than $3500 for Pentax to buy thus allowing Pentax to hit a 1 Million Yen price target. One Million Yen target is running about $11,600 US Dollars lately.
It's speculation.
You should understand it's hard to say that Hassel 50 MP camera is bulk product.

Add the price of soft for camera and producing body, electronical components, salary of engineers and assemblers (and other personnel), nonmanufacturing cost and profit.
It's not very easy to get good profit if you sell only 500-1000 cameras per year.

There is the requirements of MF market.
It's not APS-C market.

You never sell even 10 000 MF cameras per year.
02-14-2010, 10:24 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
It's speculation.
You should understand it's hard to say that Hassel 50 MP camera is bulk product.

Add the price of soft for camera and producing body, electronical components, salary of engineers and assemblers (and other personnel), nonmanufacturing cost and profit.
It's not very easy to get good profit if you sell only 500-1000 cameras per year.

There is the requirements of MF market.
It's not APS-C market.

You never sell even 10 000 MF cameras per year.
I bet if Pentax releases this thing by April 1 in Japan, they sell that many in Japan by Sep 1. That comes out somewhere near $85,000,000 based on an $8,500 USD price point.

QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Yes they did but the other way around. All Pentax MF cameras are based on 35mm cameras. The 645D shares almost certainly camera electronics with K-7....
I think that is more or less what he is saying. The K-7 was started after the 645D. I think doing that was a very good move if that turns out to be the case.
02-14-2010, 01:46 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clicker Quote
My guess is 39mp sensor same as the Leica S2 but a comparable system will be half the price point. *$15,000 for a basic kit*
No way, if the sensor is as "small" as a Leica S2, why recycle a 645 body ?
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